«

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:48:31 -0500, "*Vanguard*"
<do-not-email@reply-to-group> wrote:

>"" <>
>wrote in news::
>> In NO way is a remailer equated with an "open relay."
>
>Your opinion, not mine. Someone sending e-mail through a proxy for

snip
>
>> Since no other regulars seem to be using anon remailers, killfiling on
>> anon remailers is that hard. There are a number of ways of doing it.
>> I know from experience because I have posted to
>> alt.privacy.anon-server for some years.
>
>Do none of the remailers permit selecting a constant moniker (i.e.,
>sender or author)? An ever changing name one each of your posts is a
>pointless and bogus identifier and you might as well as leave it blank.

I think only one or two do at the present time. It adds to pseudo
forgery problems. Most people don't check headers and they blame the
post on the person whose addy was forged. However, more and more
remailers are adding disclaimer notices in the body of the message to
alert dummies.

>> What do you regard as "over and over." Once a week for a number of
>> weeks. That's hardly over and over. Even so, unanswered his posts
>> would fall into the black hole of retention time if you dweebs would
>> let it be - or KILLFILE him.
>
>No, their posts will not fall into the black hole of retention time;
>i.e., his posts will not expire on the news servers. Why? Because the
>OP has declared that they will repeatedly repost their message to
>deliberately obviate the expiration of posts. Without anyone ever
>replying to their post, this dweeb will repost it again in about another
>week, and in another week, and ad nauseum. It isn't going to go away
>because you hope it expires eventually across the news servers. The old
>copy expires, vaporizes, and voila, another same-content copy of it
>reappears. It is a deliberate attempt by theOP to circumvent the
>expiration of posts whether on the news server or by users employing
>views or rules to eliminate old posts. Just because you toss out the
>Sunday paper doesn't mean that ad won't appear in next Sunday's paper,
>and again the next Sunday, and so on ad nauseum, especially since there
>is no cost and no responsibility on the part of the advertiser.
>
><snip>
>> That is wrong. He should not be forcing all who have seen his message
>> to see it over and over. He absolutely should allow killfiling
>> because he should only be concerned with new readers of the group to
>> see it. If the group thinks him full of it, he should not exacerbate
>> it with forcing such inepts as yourself to this point of frustration.
>
>But the OP gives us nothing to killfile on (except, according to you,
>maybe in Forte Agent in can be done). In your use of remailers, do you
>get to choose what moniker (i.e., sender or name) gets used in your
>posts? From what I've seen of the OP's posts, each and every one gets a
>new moniker; i.e., their remailer cycles through a randomly generated
>set of names. At the beginning, their IP address got included in the
>NNTP-Posting-Host header but now that has disappeared when they changed
>to a different remailer. Killfiling on "mail2news" in the PATH header
>will killfile all such users, not just this one user. So this OP gives
>us nothing concrete upon which to base a kill filter.

The remailer name changes with each different remailer. Each remailer
has a constant From: line. As I also said, there are one or two that
still might permit a choice of a second From: line - allowing one to use
any name he cares to.

>>> I would love to know which
>>> NNTP clients will let me define a rule to killfile based on a
>>> substring in the PATH header.
>>
>> Agent's Global Search/Filter allows filtering on *any* header,
>> including the Path header. Of course, it also filters on body text.
>> If it is the same message over and over, just kill file on keywords
>> in the body text.
>
>Yet I see no *action* that can be attached to the search to delete the
>messages that I am attempting to kill. I don't want to search for them
>and then have to manually delete them. I want to kill them without ever
>having to see them.

No filtering can delete body text without downloading the message.

With the global filter, you have to download all bodies, which you
probably do anyway. Then Select them and open the Global filter and set
it going. It takes about 5-10". When it shows your the offending
messages, just hit Delete. It takes longer to tell it than do it.

> Also, once I define "PATH: mail2news" in a search,
>how do I save that search to reuse it later?

All filters are saved until you delete them or modify them.

> By scrolling through a
>long history of past searches? And why would I want to do searching as
>opposed to creating a rule so an automatic *action* (of delete) could be
>associated with each result found in the search without any intervention
>from me? I don't want to be going through a history of searches, find
>the ones relevant to those that I would've preferred to be in a rule,
>manually execute the search again, and manually delete all the results
>found in the manual search.

You do not understand filtering. There is no going through "a history"
of anything. The filters keep working until you modify or delete them.

>And if all headers can be searched in a global search, why were all
>those headers omitted in the Message -> Filters -> Add Kill Filter menu?
>They obviously have the code to search all headers in the global search
>but didn't bother reusing it for kill filters.

Kill filters and Global Filters are two distinct and different animals.
Kill filters do not search headers. If you read the HELP section I
posted, you will see that Kill filters have limitations.

> Can a search be saved as
>a rule AND an action attached to that saved search (i.e., make it a rule
>or filter), so the results found by the searching will get automatically
>acted upon?

I ain't sure I understand that. Yes, you can save your kill filters and
they will act each time you download new headers. Yes, the Global
Search/Filters will be saved, but to use the Global method, you must
download all headers. It is really very simple and quick.

>I don't want to bother doing searches.

Read my lips: There are not "searches" as per se. The global filter
searches in a second or two, depending on how many messages it has to
search. For the number of posts in this group, that's no time at all.

> I want to use a rule or filter
>to do that automatically for me.

You cannot delete what the filters don't know is in the message until
you download the message body.

Only KIll filters that operate on the From: or Subject can do that,
because those fields are obvious to it during download.

> According to Forte's help, "Add Usenet
>Filter dialog - If a message header is selected in the Message List
>pane, Agent automatically inserts the selected message's subject or
>author into this field." In that dialog, there are only 2 buttons for
>adding qualifiers: Author and Subject. If I enter any other qualifier
>(i.e., header), it bitches that it cannot filter on that header.

That's what Agent's HELP section told you. Only the Global Filter can
do headers and body text.

>*OTHER* than manual searches, where do you define rules or filters in
>Forte Agent that will run automatically and that actually have an action
>associated with them. The task is not to manually *find* the message
>but to automatically *delete* it.

If I want to killfile somebody, I Right click on the message and select
to killfile on the Author: or the Subject. I can also make a Watch
filter, which will automatically retrieve those messages with that name
or Subject, or I can have them deleted automatically during download.

You can also filter on message below a certain number of lines, or above
a certain number of lines. If you tell to filter all messages above 300
words, you get rid of those posts that are too lengthy. This is very
handy in the binary groups for killfiltering posts that are not a
certain amount of lines, hence you will see nothing but the binaries and
not all the spats and nonsense taking place.

>Note that when I downloaded and installed the trial version of Forte
>that there is no "Global Search/Filter" option that you mention. I
>found "Edit -> Global Search"

Global Search is the filter. That's why I usually wrote it as Global
Search/Filter. If you see that empty box under the SEARCH FOR; title,
that is where you put in your words or fields to filter on. This box
will accept the same filter expressions as does the kill filters.

Fill in the Search For: box with keywords to catch in the body text.

tick Selected groups and folders only
tick visible messages only

(Make sure your cursor is in the message pane.)
Highlight all the downloaded posts. (By using Menu EDIT|SELECT ALL)

Click on Find All In Current Group/Folder

Click on View All

Switch to agent and delete all the posts showing in the window.

Click once on any other group in the group pane.

Go back to your filtered group and all messages will show. All messages
containing the filtered body text, or other field, will be gone.

As I said, it's a hell of a lot quicker than the time it takes to
explain it.
>, or hitting Ctrl-G, but there is no Filter
>sub-menu or sub-function available in that dialog; i.e., I cannot define
>a search and then save it as a filter. The "filtering" is the search
>criteria you enter. Search-and-delete (all manual) is not the same as
>rule-deleted (and automatic). Global Search isn't filtering out
>anything. It FINDS whatever you specified for the search criteria.

>Since Forte Agent often gets touted as the better newsreader, its dearth
>of filters and/or rules is surprising.

Dearth of rules. Hardly. There are numerous permutations of what can be
done with its rules in the kill filter method, e-mail method - which is
has differences, and the global filtering method.

I was going to send you to a page where Agent's filtering types had
hundreds of examples, but I see the pages are no longer there.

Since I saved them, I can put them up on my own Website. But first I
have to check in alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent to see if someone
else has custody of them. I don't want to step on toes.

Believe me when I tell you, that the complexity of Agent's filtering is
quite astounding when you see such examples of it.

A more simple one is that you can have a friend in your Watch filter so
you do not miss his post. Through giving filters a numerical value of
importance, you fix it that even though one of your friends replies to a
killfiltered thread, he will not be killfitered.

That is only a simple one.

(I wish those filter pages were still up.)

> With all the hoopla that Forte
>Agent is better, and if it were true, then I must be missing something
>in Forte Agent where I can define rules or filters that operate WITHOUT
>user intervention and to which an action, like delete, can be applied.
>I also don't like the workaround to provide support for multiple news
>servers just because Forte Agent can only handle one at a time, but
>that's another issue.

For straight forward kill filtering, their is no "involvement" once the
filter is made. It works automatically.

>> X-News, a freebie, also allows filtering on headers and body text.
>>
>> http://xnews.newsguy.com/
>
>I'll have to revisit that newsreader. I remember looking at it a couple
>years ago but thought it got dropped, went dead, or was no longer
>supported. Even if it did get revived, it still, for example, has old
>references to DejaNews. How long ago did DejaNews become Google Groups?
>February 2001, wasn't it? If the documentation isn't accurate, it bodes
>ill for the program.

It is the old version kept alive by X-news fanatics. There is plenty of
help for it on the Web. Many people have Help pages for it, some good,
some not so good. I had a primer page of my own at one time.

>From what I read at http://xnews.newsguy.com/manual.html#filters,
>filters in Xnews are what are called views in other newsreaders.
>Nothing gets deleted, just hidden.

It's the same with Agent. Until you "compact" the groups, all headers
and downloaded bodies are still on your drive. I have my settings so
that when I purge a group, it compacts the groups and empties the crud
from my drive. If you want it done automatically, you can set the
"compact" function to operate when your "dead" stuff takes up a
specified amount of space.

You are making problems where they do not exist.

> That means you waste the disk space
>in your message store for message that you never want to see, and you
>will see those unwanted posts once you remove the filter or change to a
>different one.

It's been awhile - years - since I used X-news, but I do believe there
is a way around what you are describing.

> It looks like I would instead have to score a post.

You score filters, not posts.

>Supposedly ALL the headers would be usable so I could select the PATH
>header. *IF* all headers are available for scoring then this might
>work, and regular expressions might make it possible to specify exactly
>where in the header to look, like "$\!mail2news" to check it is at the
>end of the PATH value.

Believe me, you are hung up on the Path header. In all my years on
Usenet, I have never filtered on the Path header. You, too, once you
are familiar with the programs will see there are much easier ways to
accomplish filtering. Especially the Safeboot guy in this group.

>> There are approximately 24 non-middle remailers you have to be
>> concerned with -
>>
>> amessage antani austria
>> bigapple bunker cripto
>> discord dizum edo
>> freedom frell futurew
>> george hastio italy
>> krotus lemuria metacolo
>> paranoia starwars tonga
>> kroken liberty randseed
>>
>> Filter on them.
>
>Do you know if it is standard or de facto policy to use "mail2news" in
>the PATH header when using these remailers? Or is that optional?
>Rather than filter on "...!news.dizum.com!..." somewhere in the PATH, I
>could catch them all with just filtering on "!mail2news".

I do believe the mail2news bit would catch them. I *think* most
remailers have that notation. However, there some independent mail2news
gateways. I never paid that much attention to that header.

>> there are two middleman - that I know of presently, which also deliver
>> to Usenet : bikikii and dingo.
>>
>> It is beyond me how you people operate usenet so unprepared with the
>> right software.
>
>Not everyone has the time to waste researching every possible client
>that exists. Also, not everyone has the luxury of dictating what client
>they get to use. If you use my computer, you use what software is on it
>and you don't get to install anything else. If you use a desktop at
>work, you are responsible for obeying your company policies regarding
>software and installs. You use what you know, you use what you are
>allowed to use, and you use what best meets YOUR needs and not someone
>else's. OE fits okay but know I'd like something more, a choice I can
>make for my home computer not at work. I don't see Forte doing what I
>want since I'm not interested in performing manual searches (that carry
>no action on the results) and having to do manual deletes.

Again, they are not *manual* searches. The software does all the work.
See my explanation above.

>> Since the important key points in the text cannot change because he
>> must continually refer to the company and other keywords, body text
>> filtering would be a snap.
>
>Filtering on words within the body is much less a reliable filter unless
>the words can be guaranteed to be unique.

filter on phrases, then.

> A filter on Safeboot,
>encryption, "Speed Disk" isn't sufficient to guarantee only these
>bitchposts gets killed automatically. Adding "Simon Hunt" and "Marco
>Versteine" might help, but any replies to the post that I killfiled will
>also not be seen

Sure they will. You give your name a higher Watch priority than the one
you gave to killfile the Safeboot message. Agent will show you all your
post - and of your friends posts, if you give them a higher priority
than that of the killfilter.

> (for those that quote most or all of the post). In
>rare instances, I do want to kill the entire thread, but often I do
>start secondary discussions which I do want to see.

Change the name of the thread for your new discussion of other points.

If you place a certain word in your subject line, or in the body text,
and give that word a filter of higher priority than that of the filtered
original thread, you will see the new thread.

There are *many* ways to do what you want with Agent, or X-news.

> I cannot add the
>garbage strings that the poster adds to the Subject header and also in
>the body, and the fact that the poster is adding these to their post to
>circumvent anti-spam filters is equating their post to spam.

Not if you are filtering on anon posts by the mail2news bit or other
constant in these anon posts.

Believe me when I tell you that I have been through the flood wars in
alt.privacy.anon-server wherein thousands of pieces of crap were dumped
in each and every day. I had no trouble having a "clean" group. You
just have to learn the methods to using filters to do this.

> The poster
>wrote it using hash busting strings for a reason, and it is not a
>beneficial reason to the peer community in the newsgroup. Looks like
>spam means it is spam.

"...hash busting strings." I don't understand that phrase.

>Again, however, the kill filters in Forte Agent only let me designate
>Author and E-mail Address to filter on. Searching is worthless as a
>kill filter because that requires manual intervention which obviates the
>point of *automatically* kill filing someone. It is possible I missed
>the instructions on how to convert a global *search* into a rule or
>filter that runs automatically.

No, it does not run automatically, because it must first "see" the body
text before it can filter on it.

>> To make myself plain:
>>
>> I do not condone fascist censoring.
>>
>> I do not condone idiots who deliberately avoid killfiles.
>>
>> I do condone bitch'n and whining. That's Usenet.
>
>So you agree that you can whine that we can whine about the OP's
>whining. You whine about our whining, so you, too, are whining! hee
>hee hee ;->

Whatever...

I'm not saying everyone should use Agent or X-News. But if I were
having the problems that many have on Usenet, I'd certainly try them,
and stick with them for some weeks until I learned how to use them.
Once you learn, you will wonder how you did without them.

In article < .at>
"privacy.at Anonymous Remailer" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>
>
>
> https://www.regsoft.net/regsoft/view...roductid=50499
>
>
>

Dear Readers:

Please view the above url for proof of the product's removal.

Not mentioned in your discussions is the fact that these postings have the effect of spilling over into a regular web search such that a google web search, not a groups search, of the particular product or the company name results in these postings appearing in the first page of any results; they are the first results displayed on the first page in the case of the product name itself.

These ancillary effects cannot be very good for business or reputation and will protect potential business as well as consumers from these flawed products.

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:57:31 +0200 (CEST), Tarapia Tapioco
<> wrote:

>Dear Readers:
>
> Please view the above url for proof of the product's removal.
>
> Not mentioned in your discussions is the fact that these postings have the effect of spilling over into a regular web search such that a google web search, not a groups search, of the particular product or the company name results in these postings appearing in the first page of any results; they are the first results displayed on the first page in the case of the product name itself.
>
> These ancillary effects cannot be very good for business or reputation and will protect potential business as well as consumers from these flawed products.

Learn how adjust your line length.

Here is the message in an easier form to read:

>Dear Readers:
>
>Please view the above url for proof of the product's removal.
>
>Not mentioned in your discussions is the fact that these postings have
>the effect of spilling over into a regular web search such that a
>google web search, not a groups search, of the particular product or
>the company name results in these postings appearing in the first page
>of any results; they are the first results displayed on the first page
>in the case of the product name itself.
>
>These ancillary effects cannot be very good for business or reputation
>and will protect potential business as well as consumers from these
>flawed products.

It not any of your business as to what effects his posts have on the
business, nor on Google.

The man has a right to speak his mind. Once a week is not an excessive
amount of posts. Period.

You people should learn to use the appropriate software to killfile
posts and authors you don't like. Instead, you're a bunch of control
freaks who want to say who and what is posted here.

The fact you people don't know what you are doing does not negate this
guy's right to post.

It's too bad that he seeks to evade kill filters, though.

I have not seen his posts, but if I had, I'm sure the simplest of body
text search/filter would end my ever seeing him again.

And that is it for me. I now take my leave of this group of inept clowns
who haven't learned the simple fundamentals of Usenet, nor the
fundamental right of free speech.

You're all hopeless.

In article <>, marty12
@hotmail.com says...
> And that is it for me. I now take my leave of this group of inept clowns
> who haven't learned the simple fundamentals of Usenet, nor the
> fundamental right of free speech.
>
> You're all hopeless.

I wish you had learned to use usenet and realize that the OP was just
flaming the company and that behind a anonymous posting his flames carry
no real weight. If he had posted saying that he wasn't going to continue
posting every week, or had posted using a real email address (somewhere
in the message) or had not posted with ever changing subject lines,
names, etc... it might have carried some weight.

For someone like you to start defending the OP you appear to have had
limited Usenet experience and understanding of how trolls work.

--
--

(Remove 999 to reply to me)

<> wrote in message
news:...
> Heil, Leythos! Dictator of Usenet!
>
> Heil, Der Fuhrer, Leythos!
> >--
>

Grow up!. You can certainly make your point about anonymity, without acting
like a moron. No?
This is usenet, not the real world.

>Grow up!. You can certainly make your point about anonymity, without acting
>like a moron. No?

I don't think he's acting.
--
Dave "Crash" Dummy - A weapon of mass destruction
?subject=Techtalk (Do not alter!)
http://lists.gpick.com

In article <VZMPc.2$>,
says...
>
> <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > Heil, Leythos! Dictator of Usenet!
> >
> > Heil, Der Fuhrer, Leythos!
> > >--
> >
>
> Grow up!. You can certainly make your point about anonymity, without acting
> like a moron. No?
> This is usenet, not the real world.

I don't think the chap can act any differently, he seems to have a very
narrow view of the world and doesn't seem to understand the difference
between a real complain and a troll/flamer.

--
--

(Remove 999 to reply to me)

In article <>,
says...
> In article <VZMPc.2$>,
> says...
> >
> > <> wrote in message
> > news:...
> > > Heil, Leythos! Dictator of Usenet!
> > >
> > > Heil, Der Fuhrer, Leythos!
> > > >--
> > >
> >
> > Grow up!. You can certainly make your point about anonymity, without acting
> > like a moron. No?
> > This is usenet, not the real world.
>
> I don't think the chap can act any differently, he seems to have a very
> narrow view of the world and doesn't seem to understand the difference
> between a real complain and a troll/flamer.

Well, I just spoke with vendor about the SOLO product, it was pulled
from the market because of limited sales and the fact that support was
out of the UK - not because it didn't work.

They replaced the SOLO product with the SafeBoot Professional product.

I asked them about the spammer and was told that the OP was specifically
told to NOT use it with any other disk products during the installation
- which he ignored. They told me that they offered to replace the drive
for free, but that he refused.

So, as with everything we've suspected from his post:

1) He installed a product without following directions
2) Didn't do a backup before installing a disk product (which anyone
with a reasonable amount of intelligence would know to do)
3) Refused to accept a replacement drive for free
4) Continues to make himself look like an Ass when his posts clearly
indicate the above things are HIT fault!

Time for him to start accepting responsibility for his own actions and
quit blaming the vendor.

Oh, they are sending me a free copy of SafeBoot Professional for
evaluation on our laptops.
--
--

(Remove 999 to reply to me)

In article <>
Leythos <> wrote:
>
> In article <>, marty12
> @hotmail.com says...
> > And that is it for me. I now take my leave of this group of inept clowns
> > who haven't learned the simple fundamentals of Usenet, nor the
> > fundamental right of free speech.
> >
> > You're all hopeless.
>
> I wish you had learned to use usenet and realize that the OP was just
> flaming the company and that behind a anonymous posting his flames carry
> no real weight. If he had posted saying that he wasn't going to continue
> posting every week, or had posted using a real email address (somewhere
> in the message) or had not posted with ever changing subject lines,
> names, etc... it might have carried some weight.
>
> For someone like you to start defending the OP you appear to have had
> limited Usenet experience and understanding of how trolls work.
>
> --
> --
>
> (Remove 999 to reply to me)

https://www.regsoft.net/regsoft/view...roductid=50499


Dear Liethtoad:

Please view the above url for proof of the product's removal.

Not mentioned in your discussions is the fact that these postings have the effect
of spilling over into a regular web search such that a google web search, not a groups
search, of the particular product or the company name results in these postings appearing
in the first page of any results; they are the first results displayed on the first page
in the case of the product name itself.

These ancillary effects cannot be very good for business or reputation and will
protect potential business as well as consumers from these flawed products.

In article < ux.net>,
Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1] says...
[dear spammer]

Well, I just spoke with vendor about the SOLO product, it was pulled
from the market because of limited sales and the fact that support was
out of the UK - not because it didn't work.

They replaced the SOLO product with the SafeBoot Professional product.

I asked them about the spammer and was told that the OP was specifically
told to NOT use it with any other disk products during the installation
- which he ignored. They told me that they offered to replace the drive
for free, but that he refused.

So, as with everything we've suspected from his post:

1) He installed a product without following directions
2) Didn't do a backup before installing a disk product (which anyone
with a reasonable amount of intelligence would know to do)
3) Refused to accept a replacement drive for free
4) Continues to make himself look like an Ass when his posts clearly
indicate the above things are HIT fault!

Time for him to start accepting responsibility for his own actions and
quit blaming the vendor.

Oh, they are sending me a free copy of SafeBoot Professional for
evaluation on our laptops.

As for these posts spilling over into the google archives, it's only the
OP's posts that defame the product, everyone else sees that he/she can't
follow directions and is just trolling. I use XNA when I post (didn't
use it for this one) so that means that only the OP's posts would have
been archived - learn a little about the service you are using.

--
--

(Remove 999 to reply to me)