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Biometrics

 
 
Simon
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      11-29-2003
I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my laptop
but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as a
pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?

Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?

Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
really?

Thanks in anticipation.

SS





 
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John Larger
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      11-29-2003
The last article I saw on biometrics (but that's been at least a year ago)
indicated that they were easily spoofed.


"Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqb9ja$ec$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my laptop
> but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as a
> pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
>
> Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
>
> Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> really?
>
> Thanks in anticipation.
>
> SS
>
>
>
>
>



 
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Simon
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-30-2003
Thanks - I think I'll look at pre-boot encryption/decryption systems instead
although I get the feeling that if somebody wants in then they will get in
no matter what!

It's a sad world.

"John Larger" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:wjayb.20742$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> The last article I saw on biometrics (but that's been at least a year ago)
> indicated that they were easily spoofed.
>
>
> "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bqb9ja$ec$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my

laptop
> > but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as

a
> > pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
> >
> > Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> > simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
> >
> > Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> > really?
> >
> > Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > SS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>



 
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Hairy One Kenobi
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-30-2003
"Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqb9ja$ec$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my laptop
> but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as a
> pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
>
> Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
>
> Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> really?
>
> Thanks in anticipation.


Most only seem to work with Windows. I saw a reasonable integration with
Unicenter in '97; I'm not too up-to-date on the current state of the art
(the APIs are damned expensive, and the software you get presumably just
replaces winlogon)

Reliability can be a problem, I hear - one tends to get accuracy *or*
resilience.. be interested to know of anyone with current Real World (tm)
experience..

--

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
in the first place. So there!


 
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Simon
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      11-30-2003

"Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:9ebyb.2108$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bqb9ja$ec$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my

laptop
> > but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as

a
> > pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
> >
> > Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> > simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
> >
> > Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> > really?
> >
> > Thanks in anticipation.

>
> Most only seem to work with Windows. I saw a reasonable integration with
> Unicenter in '97; I'm not too up-to-date on the current state of the art
> (the APIs are damned expensive, and the software you get presumably just
> replaces winlogon)
>
> Reliability can be a problem, I hear - one tends to get accuracy *or*
> resilience.. be interested to know of anyone with current Real World (tm)
> experience..
>
> --
>
> Hairy One Kenobi
>
> Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the

opinion
> in the first place. So there!
>
>


I'm starting to get a sinking feeling about this.

I think the only really good biometric system is iris recognition - the last
figures I saw stated a 1 in 10 to the 78 chance of replication. However,
how resilient would that system be when attached to a laptop and what
practical use when it would probably cost more than the laptop by several
orders of magnitude?

Perhaps a good password system, regular backups and insurance are the
answer!

Thanks for your help.


 
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Hairy One Kenobi
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-30-2003
"Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqbg7q$ev1$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> news:9ebyb.2108$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:bqb9ja$ec$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my

> laptop
> > > but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate

as
> a
> > > pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
> > >
> > > Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> > > simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
> > >
> > > Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> > > really?
> > >
> > > Thanks in anticipation.

> >
> > Most only seem to work with Windows. I saw a reasonable integration with
> > Unicenter in '97; I'm not too up-to-date on the current state of the art
> > (the APIs are damned expensive, and the software you get presumably just
> > replaces winlogon)
> >
> > Reliability can be a problem, I hear - one tends to get accuracy *or*
> > resilience.. be interested to know of anyone with current Real World

(tm)
> > experience..

>
> I'm starting to get a sinking feeling about this.
>
> I think the only really good biometric system is iris recognition - the

last
> figures I saw stated a 1 in 10 to the 78 chance of replication. However,
> how resilient would that system be when attached to a laptop and what
> practical use when it would probably cost more than the laptop by several
> orders of magnitude?
>
> Perhaps a good password system, regular backups and insurance are the
> answer!
>
> Thanks for your help.


IIRC, Iris recognition is indeed the best system when using current
technology - lowest false negative/positive rates. The downside is
persuading someone that shining a laser in their eye is good for them.. ;o)

There's some good data out there on the web - I did some research when my
company released our Single Sign On option; we ended up going for
integration with RSA SecureID tags.

Cheers,

H1K


 
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Simon Smith
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-30-2003
Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

> "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bqbg7q$ev1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >
> > "Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> > news:9ebyb.2108$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:bqb9ja$ec$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my

> > laptop
> > > > but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate

> as
> > a
> > > > pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
> > > >
> > > > Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> > > > simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
> > > >
> > > > Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> > > > really?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in anticipation.
> > >
> > > Most only seem to work with Windows. I saw a reasonable integration with
> > > Unicenter in '97; I'm not too up-to-date on the current state of the art
> > > (the APIs are damned expensive, and the software you get presumably just
> > > replaces winlogon)
> > >
> > > Reliability can be a problem, I hear - one tends to get accuracy *or*
> > > resilience.. be interested to know of anyone with current Real World

> (tm)
> > > experience..

> >
> > I'm starting to get a sinking feeling about this.
> >
> > I think the only really good biometric system is iris recognition - the

> last
> > figures I saw stated a 1 in 10 to the 78 chance of replication. However,
> > how resilient would that system be when attached to a laptop and what
> > practical use when it would probably cost more than the laptop by several
> > orders of magnitude?
> >
> > Perhaps a good password system, regular backups and insurance are the
> > answer!
> >
> > Thanks for your help.

>
> IIRC, Iris recognition is indeed the best system when using current
> technology - lowest false negative/positive rates. The downside is
> persuading someone that shining a laser in their eye is good for them.. ;o)
>
> There's some good data out there on the web - I did some research when my
> company released our Single Sign On option; we ended up going for
> integration with RSA SecureID tags.
>
> Cheers,
>
> H1K
>
>


I've seen those systems - they don't appear to be that expensive either.
Good call

Cheers

SS

 
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Jim Watt
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      11-30-2003
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:13:28 -0000, "Simon"
<simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

At least the iris can't be cut off and used.

--
Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
 
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Simon
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      11-30-2003
That's not strictly true (although 'cut off' could perhaps be re-phrased
'scooped out'!).

If it came down to that though, who would really still give a **** that they
had lost their laptop? I would certainly feel I had more pressing problems!


"Jim Watt" <(E-Mail Removed)_way> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:13:28 -0000, "Simon"
> <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> At least the iris can't be cut off and used.
>
> --
> Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com



 
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Jim Watt
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-30-2003
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:23:00 -0000, "Simon"
<simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>That's not strictly true (although 'cut off' could perhaps be re-phrased
>'scooped out'!).


Yes but the patten would be lost in the process.

fingers can be cut off and used.

--
Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
 
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