Biometrics

I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my laptop
but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as a
pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?

Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?

Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
really?

Thanks in anticipation.

SS

Simon

The last article I saw on biometrics (but that's been at least a year ago)
indicated that they were easily spoofed.


"Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqb9ja$ec$...
> I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my laptop
> but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as a
> pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
>
> Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
>
> Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> really?
>
> Thanks in anticipation.
>
> SS
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks - I think I'll look at pre-boot encryption/decryption systems instead
although I get the feeling that if somebody wants in then they will get in
no matter what!

It's a sad world.

"John Larger" <> wrote in message
news:wjayb.20742$.. .
> The last article I saw on biometrics (but that's been at least a year ago)
> indicated that they were easily spoofed.
>
>
> "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bqb9ja$ec$...
> > I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my
laptop
> > but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as
a
> > pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
> >
> > Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> > simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
> >
> > Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> > really?
> >
> > Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > SS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

"Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqb9ja$ec$...
> I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my laptop
> but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as a
> pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
>
> Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
>
> Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> really?
>
> Thanks in anticipation.

Most only seem to work with Windows. I saw a reasonable integration with
Unicenter in '97; I'm not too up-to-date on the current state of the art
(the APIs are damned expensive, and the software you get presumably just
replaces winlogon)

Reliability can be a problem, I hear - one tends to get accuracy *or*
resilience.. be interested to know of anyone with current Real World (tm)
experience..

--

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
in the first place. So there!

"Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:9ebyb.2108$...
> "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bqb9ja$ec$...
> > I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my
laptop
> > but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate as
a
> > pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
> >
> > Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> > simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
> >
> > Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> > really?
> >
> > Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Most only seem to work with Windows. I saw a reasonable integration with
> Unicenter in '97; I'm not too up-to-date on the current state of the art
> (the APIs are damned expensive, and the software you get presumably just
> replaces winlogon)
>
> Reliability can be a problem, I hear - one tends to get accuracy *or*
> resilience.. be interested to know of anyone with current Real World (tm)
> experience..
>
> --
>
> Hairy One Kenobi
>
> Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the
opinion
> in the first place. So there!
>
>

I'm starting to get a sinking feeling about this.

I think the only really good biometric system is iris recognition - the last
figures I saw stated a 1 in 10 to the 78 chance of replication. However,
how resilient would that system be when attached to a laptop and what
practical use when it would probably cost more than the laptop by several
orders of magnitude?

Perhaps a good password system, regular backups and insurance are the
answer!

Thanks for your help.

"Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqbg7q$ev1$...
>
> "Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> news:9ebyb.2108$...
> > "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:bqb9ja$ec$...
> > > I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my
> laptop
> > > but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate
as
> a
> > > pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
> > >
> > > Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> > > simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
> > >
> > > Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> > > really?
> > >
> > > Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Most only seem to work with Windows. I saw a reasonable integration with
> > Unicenter in '97; I'm not too up-to-date on the current state of the art
> > (the APIs are damned expensive, and the software you get presumably just
> > replaces winlogon)
> >
> > Reliability can be a problem, I hear - one tends to get accuracy *or*
> > resilience.. be interested to know of anyone with current Real World
(tm)
> > experience..
>
> I'm starting to get a sinking feeling about this.
>
> I think the only really good biometric system is iris recognition - the
last
> figures I saw stated a 1 in 10 to the 78 chance of replication. However,
> how resilient would that system be when attached to a laptop and what
> practical use when it would probably cost more than the laptop by several
> orders of magnitude?
>
> Perhaps a good password system, regular backups and insurance are the
> answer!
>
> Thanks for your help.

IIRC, Iris recognition is indeed the best system when using current
technology - lowest false negative/positive rates. The downside is
persuading someone that shining a laser in their eye is good for them.. ;o)

There's some good data out there on the web - I did some research when my
company released our Single Sign On option; we ended up going for
integration with RSA SecureID tags.

Cheers,

H1K

Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

> "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bqbg7q$ev1$...
> >
> > "Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> > news:9ebyb.2108$...
> > > "Simon" <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:bqb9ja$ec$...
> > > > I've been thinking about buying a PCMCIA fingerprint reader for my
> > laptop
> > > > but I am wondering how effective they actually are. Do they operate
> as
> > a
> > > > pre-boot system or merely for individual users post-boot?
> > > >
> > > > Also, if somebody were to obtain my fingerprint, would they be able to
> > > > simply produce a photocopy (or whatever) and use that to gain access?
> > > >
> > > > Much is made of these biometric security systems but how good are they
> > > > really?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in anticipation.
> > >
> > > Most only seem to work with Windows. I saw a reasonable integration with
> > > Unicenter in '97; I'm not too up-to-date on the current state of the art
> > > (the APIs are damned expensive, and the software you get presumably just
> > > replaces winlogon)
> > >
> > > Reliability can be a problem, I hear - one tends to get accuracy *or*
> > > resilience.. be interested to know of anyone with current Real World
> (tm)
> > > experience..
> >
> > I'm starting to get a sinking feeling about this.
> >
> > I think the only really good biometric system is iris recognition - the
> last
> > figures I saw stated a 1 in 10 to the 78 chance of replication. However,
> > how resilient would that system be when attached to a laptop and what
> > practical use when it would probably cost more than the laptop by several
> > orders of magnitude?
> >
> > Perhaps a good password system, regular backups and insurance are the
> > answer!
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
>
> IIRC, Iris recognition is indeed the best system when using current
> technology - lowest false negative/positive rates. The downside is
> persuading someone that shining a laser in their eye is good for them.. ;o)
>
> There's some good data out there on the web - I did some research when my
> company released our Single Sign On option; we ended up going for
> integration with RSA SecureID tags.
>
> Cheers,
>
> H1K
>
>

I've seen those systems - they don't appear to be that expensive either.
Good call

Cheers

SS

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:13:28 -0000, "Simon"
<simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

At least the iris can't be cut off and used.

--
Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com

That's not strictly true (although 'cut off' could perhaps be re-phrased
'scooped out'!).

If it came down to that though, who would really still give a **** that they
had lost their laptop? I would certainly feel I had more pressing problems!


"Jim Watt" <_way> wrote in message
news:...
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:13:28 -0000, "Simon"
> <simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> At least the iris can't be cut off and used.
>
> --
> Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:23:00 -0000, "Simon"
<simon.smith@(remove)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>That's not strictly true (although 'cut off' could perhaps be re-phrased
>'scooped out'!).

Yes but the patten would be lost in the process.

fingers can be cut off and used.

--
Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com