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I am getting Certified as a Java Business Component Developer (SCJD). I
have no prior programming experience. How do I get an entry-level job,
because most entry-level jobs ask for experience? How the hell can you
get experience when even entry-level jobs want experience? Maybe, a
good way to break out of this viscious loop is to do a free internship.
Appreciate any suggestions.

fightingbull06 wrote:
> I am getting Certified as a Java Business Component Developer (SCJD). I
> have no prior programming experience. How do I get an entry-level job,
> because most entry-level jobs ask for experience? How the hell can you
> get experience when even entry-level jobs want experience? Maybe, a
> good way to break out of this viscious loop is to do a free internship.
> Appreciate any suggestions.
>

Create a project on SourceForge.

Get some users.

Put a web page together.


When you get an interview, tell them to check out your webpage, download
your software and run it.

Bite the bullet and take what you can get even if it isn't Java
development.

At least that way you are paying your bills and getting experience - a
year of Delphi is better than a year of sitting on your butt.

Doing the certifications is a good way to get a second look from a
possible employer.

I guess that you have already written the Sun Certified Java Programmer
exam (SCJP) ?

John A. Bailo <> wrote:
> When you get an interview, tell them to check out your webpage, download
> your software and run it.

One quibble. An interviewer is quite unlikely to download your software
and run it, especially if he/she has any brains and hasn't heard of your
software before. Instead, if you can speak of design decisions and
experiences you've had on the project, this will be helpful.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

Agreed - most don't have time.

"fightingbull06" <> wrote in message
news: ups.com...
>I am getting Certified as a Java Business Component Developer (SCJD). I
> have no prior programming experience. How do I get an entry-level job,
> because most entry-level jobs ask for experience? How the hell can you
> get experience when even entry-level jobs want experience? Maybe, a
> good way to break out of this viscious loop is to do a free internship.
> Appreciate any suggestions.
>
This is not a new problem. In fact, I've seen it time and again all my
working life: you can't get a job without experience and you can't get
experience if no one will give you a job.

I'm looking for a new job myself at this moment and the vast majority of
jobs, no matter how menial, demand experience. Frankly, I think a lot of the
requirements for jobs that I see are inflated well beyond what they really
need since some basic competence in some of the skills they require can be
readily learned in a few hours or days by any reasonably intelligent person.
In some cases, the experience demanded is ludicrous. I remember seeing a job
for a Java developer in 1998 that demanded five years of professional Java
experience as a "must have". The problem was that no one but a few Sun
employees had seen it before about 1996, which was just two years!

I can suggest a few things that _might_ help but none of them is
particularly reliable, in fact most of them are longshots:
- If you don't have professional (paid) experience, get some unpaid
experience. Write some code for someone and mention that on your resume. You
could write something for an organization you belong to, or for a local
group or charity, even a friend. Your resume doesn't need to mention that
you did this work for free.
- The internship idea you mentioned is probably good, provided you can
afford to work for free for a while. A lot of people can't afford to do
that.
- Indicate on your resume or covering letter, as convincingly as you can
manage, that you learn things quickly and are enthusiastic about learning
new things and willing to learn on your own time if necessary. Naturally, it
would be best if this were true, not just idle boasting, otherwise you might
get into a difficult spot if you were hired! If you can cite real cases
where you learned something fairly complex in a short time, so much the
better.
- Network with people. I'm not a great networker myself but I've heard many
people insist "it's not what you know, it's who you know that makes the
difference".

--
Rhino

chris brat <> wrote:
> Agreed - most don't have time.

Additionally, downloading and running unknown software from unreputable
sources on the Internet (and SourceForge doesn't audit anyone's
software, so they don't qualify as a reputable source) counts among the
dumbest things someone can possibly do.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

What about Apache Foundation?

Would you look consider someone if they have been an active contributor
(recognised by the Foundation) on one of the projects for a year?

chris brat <> wrote:
> What about Apache Foundation?
>
> Would you look consider someone if they have been an active contributor
> (recognised by the Foundation) on one of the projects for a year?

Sure. That's a different matter from John's original suggestion, which
was to create one's own project on SourceForge and then ask interviewers
to install and run it. Contributing to an existing reputable project
clearly makes it safer.

On the other hand, installing and running the software is then even less
useful for determining the skills of that one developer. It wouldn't be
reasonable for an interviewer to identify what one specific committer is
responsible for out of the entire code base. The interviewee should
still be prepared to talk about what they did for the project rather
than relying on the project to speak for itself.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

Chris Smith wrote:
<snip>
> On the other hand, installing and running the software is then even less
> useful for determining the skills of that one developer. It wouldn't be
> reasonable for an interviewer to identify what one specific committer is
> responsible for out of the entire code base. The interviewee should
> still be prepared to talk about what they did for the project rather
> than relying on the project to speak for itself.

Moreover, whether are not the project work speaks for itself,
communication skills, IMHO , is still considered integral part of
requirements for most IT programmers working in a team environment. The
candidate should always be prepared to articulate his work and ideas as
well.

--
Arvind