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20D sample images on dPreview.com

 
 
Brian C. Baird
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      08-23-2004
Look pretty decent. ISO 1600 is no ISO 400 on a 10D, but it's damned
near ISO 800 on the 10D. An extra stop is an extra stop. But if it was
two stops advantage on the 20D I'd put my order in today. Now I've got
to stop and think about it or possibly wait for a production camera to
be reviewed - noise might be lower on the production models, but that's
just speculation.
--
http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird/
 
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Alan Browne
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      08-23-2004
Brian C. Baird wrote:

> Look pretty decent. ISO 1600 is no ISO 400 on a 10D, but it's damned
> near ISO 800 on the 10D. An extra stop is an extra stop. But if it was
> two stops advantage on the 20D I'd put my order in today. Now I've got
> to stop and think about it or possibly wait for a production camera to
> be reviewed - noise might be lower on the production models, but that's
> just speculation.


http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page14.asp RGB noise
graph:

Shows the 20D as being slightly (very slightly) noisier than the
10D up to about ISO 800 ... after which the 20D is less noisy.

The D70 does decently albeit over a narrower range of ISO.

Cheers,
Alan.

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
 
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David J. Littleboy
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      08-23-2004

"Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page14.asp RGB noise
> graph:
>
> Shows the 20D as being slightly (very slightly) noisier than the
> 10D up to about ISO 800 ... after which the 20D is less noisy.


No, the P2 setting is the same as the 10D default, so the 20D is lower from
800 and up.

<joke>
If you look closely, you'll see that the 20D is a replacement not for the
10D, but for the 300D. The aggressive default saturation, contrast, and
sharpness settings, the taller buil-in flash, and the EF-S lens mount prove
this. Three strikes and you're a 300D.
<joke>

> The D70 does decently albeit over a narrower range of ISO.


The D70's lack of a low noise ISO 100 was disturbing, but the 20D reduces
that difference somewhat. Still, the 20D (P2) is better at every ISO.

Of course, one would like to see the noise data for RAW images, not
processed images. Sigh. I expect that the E-1, for example, which comes out
quite badly in these tests, simply has seriously excessive default
saturation, contrast, and sharpness settings.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan



 
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Brian C. Baird
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      08-23-2004
In article <cgdqib$d8s$(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
> I expect that the E-1, for example, which comes out
> quite badly in these tests, simply has seriously excessive default
> saturation, contrast, and sharpness settings.


That would make some sense from what everyone has said about the E-1
just "looking better" straight out of the camera.
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Alan Browne
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      08-23-2004
David J. Littleboy wrote:

> "Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page14.asp RGB noise
>>graph:
>>
>>Shows the 20D as being slightly (very slightly) noisier than the
>>10D up to about ISO 800 ... after which the 20D is less noisy.

>
>
> No, the P2 setting is the same as the 10D default, so the 20D is lower from
> 800 and up.


See the graph at the bottom of the cited page which compares the
D10 'default' to D20/P2... which why I said " ... after which..."


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
 
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eawckyegcy@yahoo.com
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      08-24-2004
Brian C. Baird <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Look pretty decent. ISO 1600 is no ISO 400 on a 10D, but it's damned
> near ISO 800 on the 10D.


http://luminous-landscape.com/review...0d-part1.shtml

Reichmann's graph and table, while offering no error bars for his SNR
figures, make a convincing case that a 10D and a 20D are statistically
indistinguishable from an SNR perspective (if anything, the 10D is
still slightly better). Basically (and as I expected), Canon traded
_all_ its lower noise analog processing for more pixels, instead of
more dynamic range. Not a reasonable deal if you ask me -- too many
nitwits in marketing (and, by extension, the market) who can only
count pixels.

Unconscionable is that the 20D's viewfinder seems to be even _worse_
than the already pretty bad 10D. What the hell is keeping Canon from
making a camera with a decent viewfinder? Particularly for an SLR,
where the bulk of the time is spent not playing MineSweeper on the
camera's LCD but actually putting the "R" part to work?

Ah well. If I drop my 10D, I guess I'll have no choice but to buy a
20D to replace it. But replace my 10D with a 20D? A fairly expensive
no-op at this point in time.
 
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Annika1980
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      08-24-2004
>http://luminous-landscape.com/review...0d-part1.shtml
>
>Reichmann's graph and table, while offering no error bars for his SNR
>figures, make a convincing case that a 10D and a 20D are statistically
>indistinguishable from an SNR perspective (if anything, the 10D is
>still slightly better).


If you check out part 2 of his review I think you'll see the superiority of the
20D at higher ISO settings. Plus, the added pixel count helps out too, even
with the noise levels. For example, if I took a 20D image and downsized it to
the same size as a 10D image, what happens to the noise?
It becomes smaller and less noticeable.

One thing you can bet on : When my 20D arrives (hopefully within a month or
so) you'll have plenty of 20D samples to look at. Of course, I'll be comparing
it to the Totally Digital D60, which is even noiser than the 10D. So for me,
the 20D is a wise upgrade. That's the one benefit I look forward to enjoying
..... now I'll be able to shoot more at higher ISO settings.




 
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des
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      08-24-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> Brian C. Baird <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Look pretty decent. ISO 1600 is no ISO 400 on a 10D, but it's damned
> > near ISO 800 on the 10D.

>
> http://luminous-landscape.com/review...0d-part1.shtml
>
> Reichmann's graph and table, while offering no error bars for his SNR
> figures, make a convincing case that a 10D and a 20D are statistically
> indistinguishable from an SNR perspective (if anything, the 10D is
> still slightly better). Basically (and as I expected), Canon traded
> _all_ its lower noise analog processing for more pixels, instead of
> more dynamic range. Not a reasonable deal if you ask me -- too many
> nitwits in marketing (and, by extension, the market) who can only
> count pixels.
>
> Unconscionable is that the 20D's viewfinder seems to be even _worse_
> than the already pretty bad 10D. What the hell is keeping Canon from
> making a camera with a decent viewfinder? Particularly for an SLR,
> where the bulk of the time is spent not playing MineSweeper on the
> camera's LCD but actually putting the "R" part to work?
>
> Ah well. If I drop my 10D, I guess I'll have no choice but to buy a
> 20D to replace it. But replace my 10D with a 20D? A fairly expensive
> no-op at this point in time.
>


I can hardly agree that they are statistically indistinguishable from a
SNR perspective, and no way that the 10D is "slightly better". By eye
there is no comparison. The 20D is much cleaner especially at ISO 800
and up.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page14.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page15.asp

As far as the "Unconscionable" viewfinder this is a direct quote from
the dpreview:

"The EOS 20D's viewfinder is clear and bright with a high quality
eyepiece lens (very little corner distortion). It has an all new
'Precision Matte' focusing screen which is supposed to have a more
neutral color response and provide better manual focus with faster
lenses thanks to a steeper change in blur at the focus point (in use I
have to agree, it's a noticeable improvement over the 10D which I never
considered 'bad')."


 
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Randall Ainsworth
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      08-24-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Unconscionable is that the 20D's viewfinder seems to be even _worse_
> than the already pretty bad 10D. What the hell is keeping Canon from
> making a camera with a decent viewfinder? Particularly for an SLR,
> where the bulk of the time is spent not playing MineSweeper on the
> camera's LCD but actually putting the "R" part to work?


What's wrong with the 10D viewfinder? It's clean without a bunch of
flashing lights and crap.
 
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Don
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      08-24-2004
It looks to me that the 20D at 1600 iso is as clean as the 10D at the 400
iso level from these pictures.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_...d_samples.html


"Randall Ainsworth" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:230820041903012874%(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Unconscionable is that the 20D's viewfinder seems to be even _worse_
> > than the already pretty bad 10D. What the hell is keeping Canon from
> > making a camera with a decent viewfinder? Particularly for an SLR,
> > where the bulk of the time is spent not playing MineSweeper on the
> > camera's LCD but actually putting the "R" part to work?

>
> What's wrong with the 10D viewfinder? It's clean without a bunch of
> flashing lights and crap.



 
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