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Degree VS Certification

 
 
=?Utf-8?B?U2Vhbg==?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-11-2005
Here is my perception from my personal experience going both to college and
studying for certs. Given what my college is currently teaching us students I
would be embarrassed applying for a development job with just my degree (IT
degree) but again that could only be my college incompetence in not teaching
what is required.
If I was an employer I would prefer to see both. The cert would tell me that
without question you know the material (as much as can be learned from
reading anyway) and you have a serious commitment to a specific
specialization (development, networking or database) but a degree also tells
me that you have good broad knowledge which is good for long term and
promotional purposes. Most important about the degree however is that it
holds the same weight pretty much for life. Certification doesn’t really have
that same weight over the long haul and that is why my vote is cert is best
to get the job, degree is best to keep it.


"Robert Lie" wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>
> Thanks
>
> Robert Lie
>

 
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=?Utf-8?B?U2Vhbg==?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-11-2005
I think you nailed it!

new cert is good to get in the door, degree is good to stay inside

"Bob Christian" wrote:

> It's kind of like Med school (on-topic because of the braindumping
> doctor)...
> You finish Med school and then you learn your specialty (dermatology,
> surgery fellowship, etc).
>
> In all seriousness...certifications can expire and lose relevance. OH, YOU
> ARE AN MCSE!!! WOW! What is it in? NT4...OH, so you are an mcse in nt4...
>
> A degree, even if it is 20 years old, is still a degree. It can be hard to
> get into management without a degree. While people break into the
> management ranks without a degree quite often., more often than not they
> need a degree to break into upper management. Exceptions are when you own
> the business...or when you have been with a company long enough that they
> feel like you are ready for management and promote you. Note that some
> companies require you to get a degree (and pay for it) when you get to a
> certain level, such as director.
>
> Do it now while you are young and still know everything =^)
>
> --
> Bob Christian II
> http://bobchristian.blogspot.com - Blog
>
>
>
> "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > If degree is better, so why someone need to take some certification?
> > so what the real benefit of the certification?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > T-Bone wrote:
> >> "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
> >>
> >>>Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
> >>>Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
> >>
> >>
> >> Degree is better. No whitepaper needed, just check past postings in these
> >> groups and you'll see.

>
>
>

 
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Jeffery
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-18-2005
Michigan's unemployment rate nudged up to 7% in July from 6.8% in June,
despite a continuing national recovery and auto company incentives to prod
new-vehicle sales. Still, Michigan continues to have one of the highest
unemployment rates in the nation. The national unemployment rate is 5%.

www.freep.com


My problem, I need to move from Michigan. With 3 kids in school, and my
wife job, would you move? I'm putting my family first, and my career
second.

"The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> If two Master's Degree;s have not helped anyone's career, something else

is
> going on. As for which is better Degree or Cert? I agree with the fact

that
> it depends on who's hiring, but it also depends on the person who's

looking
> for work.
>
> --
> rev
>
> MCT/MCNGP #44
> .
> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of Information
> > Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to

school
> > to
> > obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT helped

me
> > in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are

looking
> > for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far what

I'm
> > experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it use

too.
> > But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%,

which
> > is
> > high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong answer,
> > just go with your gut feeling.
> >
> > "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> Dear All,
> >>
> >> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
> >> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Robert Lie

> >
> >

>



 
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The Rev [MCT]
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-18-2005
I would move. How old are your kids though? Move is toughest on the kids.

--
rev

MCT/MCNGP #44
..
"Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:uLTIX%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Michigan's unemployment rate nudged up to 7% in July from 6.8% in June,
> despite a continuing national recovery and auto company incentives to prod
> new-vehicle sales. Still, Michigan continues to have one of the highest
> unemployment rates in the nation. The national unemployment rate is 5%.
>
> www.freep.com
>
>
> My problem, I need to move from Michigan. With 3 kids in school, and my
> wife job, would you move? I'm putting my family first, and my career
> second.
>
> "The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> If two Master's Degree;s have not helped anyone's career, something else

> is
>> going on. As for which is better Degree or Cert? I agree with the fact

> that
>> it depends on who's hiring, but it also depends on the person who's

> looking
>> for work.
>>
>> --
>> rev
>>
>> MCT/MCNGP #44
>> .
>> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of Information
>> > Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to

> school
>> > to
>> > obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT helped

> me
>> > in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are

> looking
>> > for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far what

> I'm
>> > experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it use

> too.
>> > But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%,

> which
>> > is
>> > high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong
>> > answer,
>> > just go with your gut feeling.
>> >
>> > "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> Dear All,
>> >>
>> >> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
>> >> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >> Robert Lie
>> >
>> >

>>

>
>


 
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Jeffery
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-19-2005
Kids:

1 in High School....10th grade...Basketball,Track,Football,band
1 in 1st grade
1 in pre-school

Now you see the promblem i'm facing...I get calls all over the USA and
Europe.
"The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I would move. How old are your kids though? Move is toughest on the kids.
>
> --
> rev
>
> MCT/MCNGP #44
> .
> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:uLTIX%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Michigan's unemployment rate nudged up to 7% in July from 6.8% in June,
> > despite a continuing national recovery and auto company incentives to

prod
> > new-vehicle sales. Still, Michigan continues to have one of the highest
> > unemployment rates in the nation. The national unemployment rate is 5%.
> >
> > www.freep.com
> >
> >
> > My problem, I need to move from Michigan. With 3 kids in school, and my
> > wife job, would you move? I'm putting my family first, and my career
> > second.
> >
> > "The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> If two Master's Degree;s have not helped anyone's career, something

else
> > is
> >> going on. As for which is better Degree or Cert? I agree with the fact

> > that
> >> it depends on who's hiring, but it also depends on the person who's

> > looking
> >> for work.
> >>
> >> --
> >> rev
> >>
> >> MCT/MCNGP #44
> >> .
> >> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> > Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of Information
> >> > Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to

> > school
> >> > to
> >> > obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT

helped
> > me
> >> > in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are

> > looking
> >> > for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far

what
> > I'm
> >> > experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it use

> > too.
> >> > But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%,

> > which
> >> > is
> >> > high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong
> >> > answer,
> >> > just go with your gut feeling.
> >> >
> >> > "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> >> Dear All,
> >> >>
> >> >> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
> >> >> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >>
> >> >> Robert Lie
> >> >
> >> >
> >>

> >
> >

>



 
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The Rev [MCT]
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-19-2005
Well the young ones may not be too much of a problem, but don't dare move a
teenager.

Good luck

--
rev

MCT/MCNGP #44
..
"Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Kids:
>
> 1 in High School....10th grade...Basketball,Track,Football,band
> 1 in 1st grade
> 1 in pre-school
>
> Now you see the promblem i'm facing...I get calls all over the USA and
> Europe.
> "The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I would move. How old are your kids though? Move is toughest on the kids.
>>
>> --
>> rev
>>
>> MCT/MCNGP #44
>> .
>> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:uLTIX%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > Michigan's unemployment rate nudged up to 7% in July from 6.8% in June,
>> > despite a continuing national recovery and auto company incentives to

> prod
>> > new-vehicle sales. Still, Michigan continues to have one of the highest
>> > unemployment rates in the nation. The national unemployment rate is 5%.
>> >
>> > www.freep.com
>> >
>> >
>> > My problem, I need to move from Michigan. With 3 kids in school, and
>> > my
>> > wife job, would you move? I'm putting my family first, and my career
>> > second.
>> >
>> > "The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> If two Master's Degree;s have not helped anyone's career, something

> else
>> > is
>> >> going on. As for which is better Degree or Cert? I agree with the fact
>> > that
>> >> it depends on who's hiring, but it also depends on the person who's
>> > looking
>> >> for work.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> rev
>> >>
>> >> MCT/MCNGP #44
>> >> .
>> >> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> > Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of Information
>> >> > Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to
>> > school
>> >> > to
>> >> > obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT

> helped
>> > me
>> >> > in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are
>> > looking
>> >> > for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far

> what
>> > I'm
>> >> > experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it
>> >> > use
>> > too.
>> >> > But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%,
>> > which
>> >> > is
>> >> > high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong
>> >> > answer,
>> >> > just go with your gut feeling.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> >> Dear All,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
>> >> >> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Robert Lie
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >

>>

>
>


 
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Jeffery
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-23-2005
Now you understand.....
"The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Well the young ones may not be too much of a problem, but don't dare move
> a teenager.
>
> Good luck
>
> --
> rev
>
> MCT/MCNGP #44
> .
> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Kids:
>>
>> 1 in High School....10th grade...Basketball,Track,Football,band
>> 1 in 1st grade
>> 1 in pre-school
>>
>> Now you see the promblem i'm facing...I get calls all over the USA and
>> Europe.
>> "The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> I would move. How old are your kids though? Move is toughest on the
>>> kids.
>>>
>>> --
>>> rev
>>>
>>> MCT/MCNGP #44
>>> .
>>> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:uLTIX%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> > Michigan's unemployment rate nudged up to 7% in July from 6.8% in
>>> > June,
>>> > despite a continuing national recovery and auto company incentives to

>> prod
>>> > new-vehicle sales. Still, Michigan continues to have one of the
>>> > highest
>>> > unemployment rates in the nation. The national unemployment rate is
>>> > 5%.
>>> >
>>> > www.freep.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > My problem, I need to move from Michigan. With 3 kids in school, and
>>> > my
>>> > wife job, would you move? I'm putting my family first, and my career
>>> > second.
>>> >
>>> > "The Rev [MCT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> >> If two Master's Degree;s have not helped anyone's career, something

>> else
>>> > is
>>> >> going on. As for which is better Degree or Cert? I agree with the
>>> >> fact
>>> > that
>>> >> it depends on who's hiring, but it also depends on the person who's
>>> > looking
>>> >> for work.
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> rev
>>> >>
>>> >> MCT/MCNGP #44
>>> >> .
>>> >> "Jeffery" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> >> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> >> > Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of
>>> >> > Information
>>> >> > Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to
>>> > school
>>> >> > to
>>> >> > obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT

>> helped
>>> > me
>>> >> > in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are
>>> > looking
>>> >> > for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far

>> what
>>> > I'm
>>> >> > experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it
>>> >> > use
>>> > too.
>>> >> > But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%,
>>> > which
>>> >> > is
>>> >> > high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong
>>> >> > answer,
>>> >> > just go with your gut feeling.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> >> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> >> >> Dear All,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
>>> >> >> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thanks
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Robert Lie
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>

>>
>>

>



 
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Jeffery
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-23-2005
I would read all of the comments listed above. That shoudl give you some
thoughts.
"sonupv" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Hi Everybody,
>
> I need some help convincing my wife about degree and certs. Give me
> some valid pointers if you can.
>
> She has a bachelors in computer applications and a post graduate degree
> in business.
>
> Due to some reasons she can't work on a job for the next about a year
> and a half. So she wants to go for a Masters in Computer Science.
>
> Which I think is not a bad thing to do. But I have a masters degree
> myself and so far it hasn't helped me much. On the other hand the
> certifications really did help me at my job.
>
> So my recommendation to her is that since she already has a bachelors
> and a masters, she should spend time and money on doing some
> certifications and learn some real skills instead of going for a
> Masters in computer Science which in my opinion (after looking at the
> coursework) won't teach her much real job skills.
>
> I would appreciate your opinions of this mattter.
>
> Thanks
> Sonu
>
>
>
> --
> sonupv
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Posted via http://www.mcse.ms
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> View this thread: http://www.mcse.ms/message1767786.html
>



 
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Federico
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-27-2005
Dear Wesley, I'm from the very south of the world (Argentina) and what
you said could not be more truthful here or anywhere else in the
universe [know universe ]

What you wrote summarizes everything there is to know before going to a
job interview.

You may have as many titles (degrees, certs.,etc.) as you want to ...
but it's what you can show the company you can do for it what really
matters. How you can "sell" yourself if you want to call it.

So, not only I totally agree with you on this one but I also recommend
everyone to follow your recommendations.

Congratulations on your post. This' what I call a really useful post.


Regards,
Fede.



Wesley Long wrote:
> OK, this is going to make a lot of people mad, but here is what I have come
> to believe - through years of experience:
>
> It depends on the person who's doing the hiring.
>
> If it's a technical-minded person who is looking for someone to do specific
> jobs, certifications will be what you want.
>
> If it's a management person with an MBA who's still paying his student loans
> 10 years into his career - he'll be looking for someone else with a degree.
> After all, why should he be the only one who suffered through 2 semesters of
> Western European Art History in order to manage a warehouse and trucking
> company?
>
> A little jaded, but the truth.
>
> Do what I did - get both.
>
>
> On a slightly more dispassionate note: Degrees are better, but they're
> dated. Certifications have to be renewed as technology evolves. The person
> with a 20-year old computer science degree may be every bit as skilled and
> knowledgeable, but the certification means that they demonstrated
> proficiency very recently.
>
> Overall, though, a certification is just like a diploma: It's the most
> valuable thing in the world if you don't have it, and it's the most
> worthless thing in the world once you do.
>
> Getting a job is a skill in itself. You have to make the person who makes
> the hiring decision believe that you are the most skilled person applying
> that they can afford, and that you are able to work inside the roll that
> they need. Degrees and certs are only tools to be used in that sales job.
> Networking is huge. When you see a job posting, you need to get the story
> behind the posting, and that's where your friends and colleagues come in.
> Find out WHY the job is being posted, and you're 10 steps ahead of everyone
> else you're competing with. Is it a new product? Replacing someone? If
> so, why is that someone not there anymore? Is this job building the
> company's primary revenue source, or is it supporting another process. I.E.
> if you're going to apply to Maytag, they're much more interested in a drier
> that won't scorch a shirt than in a "phenomenally new approach to web
> development."
>
> Degrees and Certifications alone will NEVER guarantee getting an interview,
> let alone a job. They have to be a part (albeit an important part) of your
> overall marketing strategy. And make no mistake - marketing yourself is
> what you're doing, whether you're a W-2 programmer, contract developer, or
> IT consultant.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>Dear All,
>>
>>Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
>>Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Robert Lie

>
>
>

 
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Wesley Long
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-15-2005
Thank you.

Just imagine how useful it would be if I could remember the difference
between "roll" and "role."

Still kick myself when I see that mistake.....


"Federico" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Dear Wesley, I'm from the very south of the world (Argentina) and what you
> said could not be more truthful here or anywhere else in the universe
> [know universe ]
>
> What you wrote summarizes everything there is to know before going to a
> job interview.
>
> You may have as many titles (degrees, certs.,etc.) as you want to ... but
> it's what you can show the company you can do for it what really matters.
> How you can "sell" yourself if you want to call it.
>
> So, not only I totally agree with you on this one but I also recommend
> everyone to follow your recommendations.
>
> Congratulations on your post. This' what I call a really useful post.
>
>
> Regards,
> Fede.
>
>
>
> Wesley Long wrote:
>> OK, this is going to make a lot of people mad, but here is what I have
>> come to believe - through years of experience:
>>
>> It depends on the person who's doing the hiring.
>>
>> If it's a technical-minded person who is looking for someone to do
>> specific jobs, certifications will be what you want.
>>
>> If it's a management person with an MBA who's still paying his student
>> loans 10 years into his career - he'll be looking for someone else with a
>> degree. After all, why should he be the only one who suffered through 2
>> semesters of Western European Art History in order to manage a warehouse
>> and trucking company?
>>
>> A little jaded, but the truth.
>>
>> Do what I did - get both.
>>
>>
>> On a slightly more dispassionate note: Degrees are better, but they're
>> dated. Certifications have to be renewed as technology evolves. The
>> person with a 20-year old computer science degree may be every bit as
>> skilled and knowledgeable, but the certification means that they
>> demonstrated proficiency very recently.
>>
>> Overall, though, a certification is just like a diploma: It's the most
>> valuable thing in the world if you don't have it, and it's the most
>> worthless thing in the world once you do.
>>
>> Getting a job is a skill in itself. You have to make the person who
>> makes the hiring decision believe that you are the most skilled person
>> applying that they can afford, and that you are able to work inside the
>> roll that they need. Degrees and certs are only tools to be used in that
>> sales job. Networking is huge. When you see a job posting, you need to
>> get the story behind the posting, and that's where your friends and
>> colleagues come in. Find out WHY the job is being posted, and you're 10
>> steps ahead of everyone else you're competing with. Is it a new product?
>> Replacing someone? If so, why is that someone not there anymore? Is
>> this job building the company's primary revenue source, or is it
>> supporting another process. I.E. if you're going to apply to Maytag,
>> they're much more interested in a drier that won't scorch a shirt than in
>> a "phenomenally new approach to web development."
>>
>> Degrees and Certifications alone will NEVER guarantee getting an
>> interview, let alone a job. They have to be a part (albeit an important
>> part) of your overall marketing strategy. And make no mistake -
>> marketing yourself is what you're doing, whether you're a W-2 programmer,
>> contract developer, or IT consultant.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Robert Lie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>Dear All,
>>>
>>>Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
>>>Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Robert Lie

>>
>>


 
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