Degree VS Certification

When my wife (then girlfriend) matriculated with her Masters in Business
Administration, the coveted MBA, I looked at her and told her that she is
not entitled to be a waitress instead of asking "would you like fries with
that?"
Needless to say she gave me a dirty look.

In her line of work many people want a CPA or some other professional
certification that certifies she can count as well as the BBA or MBA. I am
waiting for a CSP or CHIPAAP to come out, too.

The downside is that the PMI has a Catch-22, too....
you have to have experience in Project Management plus take the test plus
have a degree (or ~4 years of PM experience)...
....and generally the jobs that will give you that experience require you to
already have the PMI PMP cert.

--
Bob Christian II
http://bobchristian.blogspot.com - Blog



"Jeffery" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of Information
> Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to school
> to
> obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT helped me
> in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are looking
> for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far what I'm
> experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it use too.
> But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%, which
> is
> high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong answer,
> just go with your gut feeling.
>
> "Robert Lie" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
>> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Robert Lie
>
>

Bob Christian

"Robert Lie" wrote:
here is my 2 cents on this one...there is yet a unified track combined with
univeristy studies and technical studies that can sastisify the technical
requirements necessary in IT to succeed....MIS degrees dont have a one
standard of courses and certifications...which means u dont know really what
they know about anything when they graduate....what I see happening and what
I am doing as well is combining both the degree studies with cerification
studies...I think that the certifications should really evenutally become
apart of a degree course....all colleges and universities are gonna have to
create colleges of technology to meet employer needs and keep up with the
contuieing upgrade of technological advances.....ok so maybe this is more
like 15 cents worth..lmao


> Dear All,
>
> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>
> Thanks
>
> Robert Lie
>

=?Utf-8?B?ZHJhZ29u?=

Wow. I really thought I was going to start a fight with that one. Thanks,
Brandon.


"Brandon Baker" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Excellent post Wesley.
>
>

Wesley Long

Robert,

I would bet that the knowledge you gained from your degrees has, but you are
facing 1 major obstacle: The other people with Masters Degrees who feel
that those degrees somehow set them apart from everyone else.

I just left a gig I had where 2 "college buddies" with Masters degrees came
in and effectively took over a small company. One was an accountant, and
became CFO and then COO. He was very skilled in accounting, but decided
that only his college buddy could run the development group, and hired him
almost immediately. Unfortunately, his buddy's master's degree was in
Psychology. His skills in application architecture, design, and development
were every bit as good as what you would expect someone who studied
Psychology to have. Needless to say I went from being the architect to
being a programmer without even being informed of the change, and when I
continued doing the job I was originally contracted to do (Architecture,
Application Design, and Development) by the CEO (My contract predated both
of their hiring's), I got a lot of knife-in-the-back garbage from these two.

Unfortunately, I didn't realize that it was the COO who was the real
problem, and that the Psychology major was just the symptom, and wasted my
"political capital" trying to deal with the Psych major, and not realizing
that I was actually being "pushed down" by the two of them, together.

In the end, the CEO did realize that there was a problem, and brought in a
new guy over all of us. He dismissed the Psychology major after about 6
weeks, but it was clear I was not going to have the role that I was hoping
to regain, and that the COO was still wanting to avenge his buddy. We had
an event come up that spurred a meeting, and the COO accidentally tipped his
hand that he was after me, and I "called it" right there.

This is why many of us roll our eyes (or gnash our teeth and rip our shirts)
when we hear "Master's Degree."

I'm not saying all people with graduate degrees are like this, but those who
are like this never pass up an opportunity to let everyone else near them
know they have a Master's. It's left a REALLY bad impression with those of
us who stopped with lower degrees and learned on-the-job. The "Master's
Club" is gaining the same notoriety as the "Good Ol' Boy Network" of days
gone by.

It's unfortunate, as you're probably a pretty decent guy (seeing as you're
honestly considering certification as being just as valuable to you, if not
more so). It's not fair that you have to push the Sisyphean boulder that
guys like that have left for you. (My grandmother taught Literature, I
didn't take Greek Mythology 331.)




"Jeffery" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of Information
> Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to school
> to
> obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT helped me
> in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are looking
> for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far what I'm
> experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it use too.
> But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%, which
> is
> high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong answer,
> just go with your gut feeling.
>
> "Robert Lie" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
>> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Robert Lie
>
>

Wesley Long

Sorry, that was to Jefferey. Lost track of the headers in the thread.


"Wesley Long" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Robert,
> I would bet that ...

Wesley Long

Wesley Long, what are your thoughts on Carly Fiorina's (HP EX -CEO)

Carly Fiorina - bachelor's in Medieval History
MBA


"Wesley Long" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Sorry, that was to Jefferey. Lost track of the headers in the thread.
>
>
> "Wesley Long" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
> > Robert,
> > I would bet that ...
>
>

Jeffery

>Dear All,
>
>Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?

The short answer is both. The longer answer is... well, longer.

A few year back, MS was going to "decertify" all the MSCE on the NT
4.0 track. Then at the last minute, they changed their minds. It's
their certification and they can do what they want with it. However,
I've never heard of any college having the power to "degraduate" all
of their students.

I work with the US Government, and in our large organization, we can
not hire someone without a college degree. Period. If that is right
or wrong makes no difference, that's just the way it is.

A degree means that you have typically completed a multi-year
education process from a recognized institution. Most certifications
means that you were able to pass a 30 question multiple choice test
after buying a brain-dump. Recently a 9 year old Pakistani girl
earned her MCP. What does that say about the certification?

My computer science degree may be 20+ years old (punch cards, FORTRAN,
JCL), but if you keep up in the field, keep progressing at the job,
and earn the certifications, it will show that you are keeping up with
technology, and not letting the degree collect dust.

And as far as Carly, Bill, and the rest of the people who don't have
degrees, or degrees in other fields - there will always be
exceptions... that's just the way things work. But most of us are not
Carly or Bill.

And just as one guy with a degree couldn't network to machines
together, I've seen a guy with Solaris Certification who didn't know
what the middle button on the mouse was used for. There are a lot of
idiots on both sides of the fence, and we can point at them all day
long.

My recommendation is to work on your degree, and between terms and
during the summer, work on your certifications... when you graduate,
you will have more than those who have just a degree, and those who
have just certifications. And a smart hiring officer will recognize
that.

But as someone else mentioned, (human) networking plays a big part as
well. The last several jobs I got were all based on recommendations
of people who were impressed with my work.

I learn english froma book!

If two Master's Degree;s have not helped anyone's career, something else is
going on. As for which is better Degree or Cert? I agree with the fact that
it depends on who's hiring, but it also depends on the person who's looking
for work.

--
rev

MCT/MCNGP #44
..
"Jeffery" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of Information
> Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to school
> to
> obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT helped me
> in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are looking
> for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far what I'm
> experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it use too.
> But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%, which
> is
> high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong answer,
> just go with your gut feeling.
>
> "Robert Lie" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
>> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Robert Lie
>
>

The Rev [MCT]

I didn't follow her ouster as closely as I should have to make a judgement
on her overall performance. However, when the people who founded the
company try to lead a shareholder's revolt against your plans (Compaq
buyout), you know something has to be wrong.


"Jeffery" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Wesley Long, what are your thoughts on Carly Fiorina's (HP EX -CEO)
>
> Carly Fiorina - bachelor's in Medieval History
> MBA
>
>
> "Wesley Long" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
>> Sorry, that was to Jefferey. Lost track of the headers in the thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Wesley Long" <> wrote in message
>> news:%...
>> > Robert,
>> > I would bet that ...
>>
>>
>
>

Wesley Long

MCT/MCNGP #44

But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%, which is
high compared to the national rate.

Delphi - Cutting IT staff
GM - Cutting IT staff
Ford - Cutting IT staff
Chrsyler - Cutting IT staff

Michigan is known for the automobile industry.


"The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> If two Master's Degree;s have not helped anyone's career, something else
is
> going on. As for which is better Degree or Cert? I agree with the fact
that
> it depends on who's hiring, but it also depends on the person who's
looking
> for work.
>
> --
> rev
>
> MCT/MCNGP #44
> .
> "Jeffery" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
> > Robert, I have two Masters (MBA) & (MSM) and 15 years of Information
> > Technology experience. I'm currently debating about going back to
school
> > to
> > obtain a certificated (PMI) / (MCSE). So far my Masters has NOT helped
me
> > in my career. A lot of recruiter calls me, but their clients are
looking
> > for PMI or MCSE in other words some type of certification. So far what
I'm
> > experiencing, that a MASTER does not carry as much weight like it use
too.
> > But remember I live in Michigan were the unemployment rate is 7.5%,
which
> > is
> > high compare to the national rate. There is no right of wrong answer,
> > just go with your gut feeling.
> >
> > "Robert Lie" <> wrote in message
> > news:...
> >> Dear All,
> >>
> >> Which one is better, bachelor degree or certification?
> >> Is there any white paper that study about this matter?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Robert Lie
> >
> >
>

Jeffery