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Beginning C++

 
 
Computer Whizz
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      10-21-2004

"Ioannis Vranos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1098360539.328523@athnrd02...
> John Harrison wrote:
>
>>>I am not sure if you want to understand.
>>>

>>
>>
>> Hmm, try me. I promise no hard feelings, I'm just interested.

>
>
> Lets see. Tell me why VB and C#/CLI are better than C++ (C++/CLI or even
> "managed extensions")?
>
>
>
> --
> Ioannis Vranos
>
> http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys


They are better for "newbies" because you can throw a simple program
together in 10 minutes that would take (me - the newbie) 10 hours to do in
C++... Mainly because VB (dunno about C#) has alot more helpful
documentation than C++.

BUT when you learn the C++ language I'm sure you could do stuff in 10
minutes (more hardware/low-level/file stuff) than you could in VB because
you'd need to find out more info and type more to do the same.

--
=========
Comp Whizz
=========
(The C++ beginner)


 
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Phlip
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      10-21-2004
Computer Whizz wrote:

> They are better for "newbies" because you can throw a simple program
> together in 10 minutes that would take (me - the newbie) 10 hours to do in
> C++... Mainly because VB (dunno about C#) has alot more helpful
> documentation than C++.
>
> BUT when you learn the C++ language I'm sure you could do stuff in 10
> minutes (more hardware/low-level/file stuff) than you could in VB because
> you'd need to find out more info and type more to do the same.


I have tried very hard in VB, for years, and I remain more productive (and
more robust) in C++. _Especially_ when I do high-level GUI work - the things
VB was allegedly designed for.

C++ with /Accelerated C++/, and mentoring, is a mostly harmless learner
language. But I can't recommend it online, because I don't know if the
reader has the book and the mentor.

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/bi...UserInterfaces


 
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Mike Wahler
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      10-21-2004
"Ioannis Vranos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1098355011.539867@athnrd02...
> John Harrison wrote:
>
> > Just because you disagree with my opinions doesn't mean I was trolling.

>
>
> One person asked how he can start learning C++ in comp.lang.c++, and
> instead of providing some information on this you tell him to move to
> C#, VB and Java (and 2 other idiots to Ruby).
>
> That is trolling.


No, it's not. It's an attempt to help. Look up the definition
of trolling.

Anyway, to the point: context is important. If you'll read
the *entire* message from the OP, you should realize that
John's advice was appropriate. Of course OP should read
all the replies and make his own decisions.

-Mike


 
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Ioannis Vranos
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      10-22-2004
Mike Wahler wrote:

> Anyway, to the point: context is important. If you'll read
> the *entire* message from the OP, you should realize that
> John's advice was appropriate.



Not it wasn't. Consider me if I was sticking around in Java newsgroups,
and when someone asked for some book of Java to begin with, or some
compiler, to tell him to move to C++.

Or in Ruby newsgroups, VB, etc. This behaviour is not appropriate.


If someone asked what language he should consider, then such answers
would be valid. Otherwise it is trolling, or in other words impolite.



--
Ioannis Vranos

http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys
 
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Randy Yates
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      10-22-2004
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Ari W.) writes:

> Does anybody here have any input on how to start learning C++. I am
> hoping nobody tells me to take courses. I am still in college and
> tried taking courses but found that all the details about pseudocode
> and other programming basics drove me insane. I think after taking
> that course and from general knowledge I have picked up I am pretty
> familiar with the way programs are built on a basic level at least. I
> am not looking to make a career of programming, I simply want
> familiarity with such languages as C++ because it can help in many IT
> jobs to be able to throw together small programs. This is why I am
> also interested in VB and curious about any other languages that can
> be useful. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to read this and
> I hope I get some answers.
>
> -- Ari Winokur


I have two suggestions:

1. DO buy the book "Teach Yourself C++" by Herbert Schildt. I think it
is not only an excellent introduction to the language, but will
serve as a reference for refreshing concepts when one has been away
for awhile.

2. DO NOT buy the book "The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and Reference"
by Nicolai M. Josuttis. I feel that my $65 was almost completely wasted on
this book, even though it is given a "highly recommended" rating in the
FAQ for this group.
--
% Randy Yates % "She's sweet on Wagner-I think she'd die for Beethoven.
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % She love the way Puccini lays down a tune, and
%%% 919-577-9882 % Verdi's always creepin' from her room."
%%%% <(E-Mail Removed)> % "Rockaria", *A New World Record*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr
 
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John Harrison
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      10-22-2004

>
> I have two suggestions:
>
> 1. DO buy the book "Teach Yourself C++" by Herbert Schildt. I think it
> is not only an excellent introduction to the language, but will
> serve as a reference for refreshing concepts when one has been away
> for awhile.


Schildt has an appaling reputation. I can't say if its deserved because I've
never read any of his books. I have however seen some of the howlers
contained in some of his books.

So, I'm interested, what was it that you liked about this book?

>
> 2. DO NOT buy the book "The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and

Reference"
> by Nicolai M. Josuttis. I feel that my $65 was almost completely wasted on
> this book, even though it is given a "highly recommended" rating in the
> FAQ for this group.


What was it that you didn't like about this? When I first bought it I though
it contained very little that I couldn't get elsewhere and that it was
somewhat repetitious. But since then I've found I do refer to it quite
often.

john


 
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Karl Heinz Buchegger
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      10-22-2004
Randy Yates wrote:
>
>
> I have two suggestions:
>
> 1. DO buy the book "Teach Yourself C++" by Herbert Schildt. I think it
> is not only an excellent introduction to the language, but will
> serve as a reference for refreshing concepts when one has been away
> for awhile.
>
> 2. DO NOT buy the book "The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and Reference"
> by Nicolai M. Josuttis. I feel that my $65 was almost completely wasted on
> this book, even though it is given a "highly recommended" rating in the
> FAQ for this group.


You suggestions reflect your performance in this group

Ari:
Shildt's book have a bad reputation
Randy is right in not suggesting Josuttis book *now*. It surely
is way over the head for a newbie. However when you have come to
speed in C++, it is defenitly a recommended buy.

--
Karl Heinz Buchegger
(E-Mail Removed)
 
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Ioannis Vranos
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      10-22-2004
Randy Yates wrote:

> I have two suggestions:
>
> 1. DO buy the book "Teach Yourself C++" by Herbert Schildt.



Perhaps you mean by Jesse Liberty?



--
Ioannis Vranos

http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys
 
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Phlip
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      10-22-2004
John Harrison wrote:

> Schildt has an appaling reputation. I can't say if its deserved because

I've
> never read any of his books. I have however seen some of the howlers
> contained in some of his books.


I went into a VONS (a regional supermarket chain), and by the entrance was a
table of old books, to be sold for a couple bucks each for charity. Before
avoiding the Danielle Steel covers and going shopping, I noticed /Advanced
C/ by HS.

I was absolutely tickled, because it contained chapters from my second C
book ever. I immediately looked up "recursive descent parser", and there it
was, the same friendly and comprehensible verbiage, and the same lean but
terse code. No spaces between operators and variables, the latter usually of
a single letter. You gotta respect the patience to write the same
explanation of recursion, over and over again, in different ways, to make
sure that all the readers "get" it.

HS's bad reputation comes from declaring a technical accuracy he's incapable
of defining, and from refusing to publish "errata" and such. If you don't
treat him like a thought leader or guru, and shelve him with the "Unleashed
Dummies in 21 Days" books, he can't affect you. Much.

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/bi...UserInterfaces


 
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Stuart Gerchick
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-22-2004
(E-Mail Removed) (Ari W.) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> Does anybody here have any input on how to start learning C++. I am
> hoping nobody tells me to take courses. I am still in college and
> tried taking courses but found that all the details about pseudocode
> and other programming basics drove me insane. I think after taking
> that course and from general knowledge I have picked up I am pretty
> familiar with the way programs are built on a basic level at least. I
> am not looking to make a career of programming, I simply want
> familiarity with such languages as C++ because it can help in many IT
> jobs to be able to throw together small programs. This is why I am
> also interested in VB and curious about any other languages that can
> be useful. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to read this and
> I hope I get some answers.
>
> -- Ari Winokur
>
> ari_winokur at comcast dot net


Stuart Gerchick,
I am going to recommend a number of useful books to start with that
will give you a good perspective

1) Accelerated C++ by Koeing and Moo. This book starts with high
level STL code to get you moving fast and build apps quickly, without
learning the details till later

2) Essential C++ by Stanley B. Lippman a good starting book

3) C++ primer by Stanley B. Lippman - a 1000+ page book. However, it
will
take you from basic stuff to very advanced topics.

Searching the internet is fine. but you need a good book to get a
clear consistent view of c++ programming
 
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