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Beginning C++

 
 
John Harrison
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      10-21-2004

"Ioannis Vranos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1098355011.539867@athnrd02...
> John Harrison wrote:
>
> > Just because you disagree with my opinions doesn't mean I was trolling.

>
>
> One person asked how he can start learning C++ in comp.lang.c++, and
> instead of providing some information on this you tell him to move to
> C#, VB and Java (and 2 other idiots to Ruby).
>
> That is trolling.
>


From the OP's original post

> This is why I am
> also interested in VB and curious about any other languages that can
> be useful.


I just didn't think that C++ was the best for him, I could easily be wrong
but I was just offering my opinion. Not sure why you took it so personally.

john


 
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Phlip
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      10-21-2004
Ioannis Vranos wrote:

> > Just because you disagree with my opinions doesn't mean I was trolling.

>
> One person asked how he can start learning C++ in comp.lang.c++, and
> instead of providing some information on this you tell him to move to
> C#, VB and Java (and 2 other idiots to Ruby).
>
> That is trolling.


Ioannis, please come down off that cross. We need to use the wood.

Many newbies think C++ is the first language they should learn. Disagreeing
with you is not trolling, and calling your fellow regulars "idiots" lowers
your image here.

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/bi...UserInterfaces


 
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Ioannis Vranos
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      10-21-2004
John Harrison wrote:

> I just didn't think that C++ was the best for him, I could easily be wrong
> but I was just offering my opinion. Not sure why you took it so personally.



I am not sure if you want to understand.



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Ioannis Vranos

http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys
 
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John Harrison
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      10-21-2004

"Ioannis Vranos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1098356520.551872@athnrd02...
> John Harrison wrote:
>
> > I just didn't think that C++ was the best for him, I could easily be

wrong
> > but I was just offering my opinion. Not sure why you took it so

personally.
>
>
> I am not sure if you want to understand.
>


Hmm, try me. I promise no hard feelings, I'm just interested.

John


 
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Ioannis Vranos
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      10-21-2004
John Harrison wrote:

>>I am not sure if you want to understand.
>>

>
>
> Hmm, try me. I promise no hard feelings, I'm just interested.



Lets see. Tell me why VB and C#/CLI are better than C++ (C++/CLI or even
"managed extensions")?



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Ioannis Vranos

http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys
 
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Phlip
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      10-21-2004
Ioannis Vranos wrote:

> Lets see. Tell me why VB and C#/CLI are better than C++ (C++/CLI or even
> "managed extensions")?


"They are _all_ better, because C++ sucks."

Is that what you want to hear?

No post should say that this or that is "better". Posts should say, "have
you considered Brand X."

We are not here to blindly promote C++. We are not marketeers for C++ Inc.

We are here to help recover our industry from the horribly sucky state of
its art. We do this by raising newbies' awareness of options. There is no
reason not to promote other languages on this newsgroup. If they "win", then
C++ wins too.

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/bi...UserInterfaces


 
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John Harrison
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      10-21-2004

"Ioannis Vranos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1098360539.328523@athnrd02...
> John Harrison wrote:
>
> >>I am not sure if you want to understand.
> >>

> >
> >
> > Hmm, try me. I promise no hard feelings, I'm just interested.

>
>
> Lets see. Tell me why VB and C#/CLI are better than C++ (C++/CLI or even
> "managed extensions")?
>


I never claimed that they were, I don't think that they are. For myself I
far prefer C++ to any other language mentioned in this thread. But I do
think that a language that is good for one purpose or one person may not be
so good for another purpose or another person. And this is for the
completely banal reason that people and languages have different strengths
and weaknesses.

If this is just going to be a 'my language is better than your language'
argument then I'm not interested. For a moment I thought you were going to
take the discussion in a much more interesting direction.

john


 
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Ioannis Vranos
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      10-21-2004
Phlip wrote:

> "They are _all_ better, because C++ sucks."
>
> Is that what you want to hear?
>
> No post should say that this or that is "better". Posts should say, "have
> you considered Brand X."
>
> We are not here to blindly promote C++. We are not marketeers for C++ Inc.
>
> We are here to help recover our industry from the horribly sucky state of
> its art. We do this by raising newbies' awareness of options. There is no
> reason not to promote other languages on this newsgroup. If they "win", then
> C++ wins too.



In any case, I asked him to support his assertion that VB and C#/CLI are
better for newcomers. I guess you have no problem with that.



--
Ioannis Vranos

http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys
 
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Phlip
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      10-21-2004
Ioannis Vranos wrote:

> In any case, I asked him to support his assertion that VB and C#/CLI are
> better for newcomers. I guess you have no problem with that.


For newbies and veterans alike, my permanent, professional opinion is:

C# and VB both suck wet farts out of dead seagulls.

But I'm not trolling!

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/bi...UserInterfaces


 
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Ioannis Vranos
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      10-21-2004
John Harrison wrote:

> I never claimed that they were, I don't think that they are. For myself I
> far prefer C++ to any other language mentioned in this thread. But I do
> think that a language that is good for one purpose or one person may not be
> so good for another purpose or another person. And this is for the
> completely banal reason that people and languages have different strengths
> and weaknesses.
>
> If this is just going to be a 'my language is better than your language'
> argument then I'm not interested. For a moment I thought you were going to
> take the discussion in a much more interesting direction.



I am talking about easiness for newcomers. VB and C#/CLI are CLI
specific so they don't provide any more features than CLI provides.

Actually C++/CLI provides more CLI features than these, like more
generics features.


What do you think of


String s="Text";

or String s("Text");


that is System::String objects with stack semantics and deterministic
destruction?



Isn't it far easier for beginners than the rest CLI languages where the
only option is using operator new?


C++ can do both stack semantics and managed heap semantics.



--
Ioannis Vranos

http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys
 
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