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Virtual PC - changing screens

 
 
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      04-02-2004
Hi

I'm having a problem where if I move from my platform(Xp) to my vpc (full screen w2kpro), I can't type, I can only use the backspace which causes symbols

Any Ideas?
 
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Marlin Munrow
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      04-02-2004
On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:36:09 -0800, "Anna-Marie"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi
>
>I'm having a problem where if I move from my platform(Xp) to my vpc (full screen w2kpro), I can't type, I can only use the backspace which causes symbols.
>
>Any Ideas?



Stop trying to get MS VPC to do more than its capable of. Use GSX
server or VMWare workstation = more virtual machines for less RAM and
better performance / flexibility although more disk space usage...


MS VPC has known problems with keyboard when switching machines or
even transferring focus.

On a pc the answer is to press left alt, left ctrl, left alt and then
you can type. MS VPC is a real newbie 1.0x product that shows some
promise but no one would run the space shuttle on it.



================================
My Hero:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
(remove vroomfondle to email me)
================================
 
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Steve Jain
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      04-02-2004




On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:12:47 +0100, Marlin Munrow
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:36:09 -0800, "Anna-Marie"
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Hi
>>
>>I'm having a problem where if I move from my platform(Xp) to my vpc (full screen w2kpro), I can't type, I can only use the backspace which causes symbols.
>>
>>Any Ideas?

>
>
>Stop trying to get MS VPC to do more than its capable of. Use GSX
>server or VMWare workstation = more virtual machines for less RAM and
>better performance / flexibility although more disk space usage...


You're comparing a $130 product to a $1300 server product, umm, no.

VMWare workstation can provide better performance than VPC, and VPC
can run faster than VM Ware too. Performance is very dependent on
outside factors.

The more VM for less RAM seems to no longer be true in 4.5.1, per the
VMWare newsgroups, if it ever was.

>
>
>MS VPC has known problems with keyboard when switching machines or
>even transferring focus.


This occurs rarely, sometimes never, depends on a lot of things. The
only time I've ever had problems is with FreeDOS, not any of the
supported OSes.

>
>On a pc the answer is to press left alt, left ctrl, left alt and then
>you can type. MS VPC is a real newbie 1.0x product that shows some
>promise but no one would run the space shuttle on it.


Its not a 1.0 product, its a version 3, ctnx 4.0, cntx 5.x, vpc 2004.

I definitely wouldn't run the space shuttle on VM Ware's products
either!


>
>
>
>================================
>My Hero:
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
>(remove vroomfondle to email me)
>================================


Steve Jain, Microsoft MVP for Virtual PC for Windows
Website: http://www.essjae.com
 
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Marlin Munrow
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-03-2004
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:48:37 -0800, Steve Jain
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:12:47 +0100, Marlin Munrow
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:36:09 -0800, "Anna-Marie"
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>Hi
>>>I'm having a problem where if I move from my platform(Xp) to my vpc (full screen w2kpro), I can't type, I can only use the backspace which causes symbols.
>>>Any Ideas?

>>Stop trying to get MS VPC to do more than its capable of. Use GSX
>>server or VMWare workstation = more virtual machines for less RAM and
>>better performance / flexibility although more disk space usage...

>You're comparing a $130 product to a $1300 server product, umm, no.
>VMWare workstation can provide better performance than VPC, and VPC
>can run faster than VM Ware too. Performance is very dependent on
>outside factors.


Wrong

Unless you're prepared to wait for MSVPC to "warm up" for some
considerable time, the performance *never* matches* let alone exceeds
VMWare.

I *do* actually use both and I *love* MS products but this one really
isnt even close to VMWare workstation and its limitations need to be
properly understood before you think of using it.

Typical use for me is to test bed patches with SUS or testbed
applications on workstation - there it excels less space used,
performance isnt as good but it doesnt need to be.


>The more VM for less RAM seems to no longer be true in 4.5.1, per the
>VMWare newsgroups, if it ever was.


Wrong Again
I can still run my test rig for exactly the same overhead on 4-5-1
with better performance and quicker shut down for the same RAM
(FYI: My lab on 1 gig RAM
1 x 2000 Server running RRAS for routing
3 x 2003 Enterprise Servers (DCs running 2 sites)
1 x WinXPPro
1 x Windows 2003 server (member) or 1 x Win 2kpro sp4

6 machines at a time on Athlon XP 2400+ 1 GB RAM, SATA RAID)

For the record I have difficulty even running 4 machines under the
above configuration. The key is separate NON BUS MASTERING SPINDLES
for your machines to get best response.


>>MS VPC has known problems with keyboard when switching machines or
>>even transferring focus.

>This occurs rarely, sometimes never, depends on a lot of things. The
>only time I've ever had problems is with FreeDOS, not any of the
>supported OSes.
>>On a pc the answer is to press left alt, left ctrl, left alt and then
>>you can type. MS VPC is a real newbie 1.0x product that shows some
>>promise but no one would run the space shuttle on it.

>Its not a 1.0 product, its a version 3, ctnx 4.0, cntx 5.x, vpc 2004.
>I definitely wouldn't run the space shuttle on VM Ware's products
>either!


Wrong yet again
Microsoft's first release so its a 1.0x product
And for the record, I would consider running the space shuttle on GSX
server (but only for a moment before deciding against it as its never
been done before)

================================
My Hero:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
(remove vroomfondle to email me)
================================
 
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Steve Jain
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      04-04-2004
What a wonderfully tactful message.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:28:52 +0100, Marlin Munrow
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:48:37 -0800, Steve Jain
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:12:47 +0100, Marlin Munrow
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:36:09 -0800, "Anna-Marie"
>>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>Hi
>>>>I'm having a problem where if I move from my platform(Xp) to my vpc (full screen w2kpro), I can't type, I can only use the backspace which causes symbols.
>>>>Any Ideas?
>>>Stop trying to get MS VPC to do more than its capable of. Use GSX
>>>server or VMWare workstation = more virtual machines for less RAM and
>>>better performance / flexibility although more disk space usage...

>>You're comparing a $130 product to a $1300 server product, umm, no.
>>VMWare workstation can provide better performance than VPC, and VPC
>>can run faster than VM Ware too. Performance is very dependent on
>>outside factors.

>
>Wrong
>
>Unless you're prepared to wait for MSVPC to "warm up" for some
>considerable time, the performance *never* matches* let alone exceeds
>VMWare.


I disagree. If you mean from a saved state, sure VM Ware restores the
desktop faster, but you still need to wait as least as long to
actually do anything.

I've seen many times where VPC outperforms VM Ware, and I know many,
many others who've said the same. In fact, some of the customers who
purchased VPC as a replacement to VM Ware did so based on performance.

I do use both and have used both for several years.

>
>I *do* actually use both and I *love* MS products but this one really
>isnt even close to VMWare workstation and its limitations need to be
>properly understood before you think of using it.
>
>Typical use for me is to test bed patches with SUS or testbed
>applications on workstation - there it excels less space used,
>performance isnt as good but it doesnt need to be.
>
>
>>The more VM for less RAM seems to no longer be true in 4.5.1, per the
>>VMWare newsgroups, if it ever was.

>
>Wrong Again


There must be a lot of wrong people in the world to you.

>I can still run my test rig for exactly the same overhead on 4-5-1
>with better performance and quicker shut down for the same RAM
>(FYI: My lab on 1 gig RAM
>1 x 2000 Server running RRAS for routing
>3 x 2003 Enterprise Servers (DCs running 2 sites)
>1 x WinXPPro
>1 x Windows 2003 server (member) or 1 x Win 2kpro sp4


Well, in YOUR case it may be true, but can you guarantee this for
EVERY SINGLE case? There are threads on the VMW newsgroups regarding
this.

>
>6 machines at a time on Athlon XP 2400+ 1 GB RAM, SATA RAID)
>
>For the record I have difficulty even running 4 machines under the
>above configuration. The key is separate NON BUS MASTERING SPINDLES
>for your machines to get best response.
>
>
>>>MS VPC has known problems with keyboard when switching machines or
>>>even transferring focus.

>>This occurs rarely, sometimes never, depends on a lot of things. The
>>only time I've ever had problems is with FreeDOS, not any of the
>>supported OSes.
>>>On a pc the answer is to press left alt, left ctrl, left alt and then
>>>you can type. MS VPC is a real newbie 1.0x product that shows some
>>>promise but no one would run the space shuttle on it.

>>Its not a 1.0 product, its a version 3, ctnx 4.0, cntx 5.x, vpc 2004.
>>I definitely wouldn't run the space shuttle on VM Ware's products
>>either!

>
>Wrong yet again


I disagree.

>Microsoft's first release so its a 1.0x product


Lets see, the entire Connecitix engineering team minus one engineer,
most of the QA team and some of the app engineering team, all the
original source code, how is it a 1.0x product again?

Even if it is, VPC still has a lot to offer over VM Ware. Ease of
use, like drag and drop ISOs and VFDs, dynamically resizable window,
emulated hardware based on real hardware, etc.

>And for the record, I would consider running the space shuttle on GSX
>server (but only for a moment before deciding against it as its never
>been done before)
>
>================================
>My Hero:
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
>(remove vroomfondle to email me)
>================================


Steve Jain, Microsoft MVP for Virtual PC for Windows
Website: http://www.essjae.com
 
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Marlin Munrow
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2004
Well you've failed to convince me.

I can see I've hit a nerve with you, my apologies. I too will get up
on a soap box for some MS products but if I told you which ones that
would just be a red rag.

In the end, a thing is a lie or it is truth. So you're still wrong in
my view but we can agree to disagree since this is usenet and you're
responses are well thought out but still wrong based on my experience
- btw I accept that not everyone will share my experience.

What cant speak cant lie so I can only go on my team's experience of
the 3x-4x vmware ws product vs vpc.

Its simple in my view you're wrong because we load 3 vpc sessions and
all is well 4 and the whole system browns out versus 6 machines in a
useable state with VMWare. I should also add, having purchased MSDN
Universal partly because of vpc I was sorely disappointed and have
returned to my old faithful vmware WS config. MSVPC takes nearly 30%
longer to load a machine from cold and restore from saved state takes
half the time on VMWare.

My kit (and that of the team I manage) isnt too powerful but MSVPC
runs poorly with similar results on our Compaq N610c's 1GB RAM /
N620c's 1GB RAM The team I manage also use vpc but understand its
limitations and will use VMWare in where appropriate.

MS VPC is a poor shadow of VMWare workstation. (it pains me to say
anything bad about MS products even those they liked so much they
bought the company).

I had *high* hopes of Connectix too, the technology that MS have
bought showed a great deal of promise when I tested it.

I stand by what I said though despite your protestations, this ms vpc
is still a v1.0 product its standards of production and reliability
say that under Microsoft its at best a v1.1 or 1.0 sp1 product despite
its version number at acquisition.

Regardless of what version number Connectix branded it (I have worked
in development companies like Connectix) all I can say about this
product and your argument, good though they both are, is...


Close but no cigar.




On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:00:47 -0800, Steve Jain
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>What a wonderfully tactful message.

<<<<SNIP>>>
================================
My Hero:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
(remove vroomfondle to email me)
================================
 
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Steve Jain
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2004
I'll agree to disagree

Its true that VM Ware does have advantages over VPC, I use VM Ware for
my Linux OSes, but I don't plan on giving up VPC for Windows or DOS
OSes.

The recent versions of VMWare Workstation have come a long way and
incorporated a lot of the neat little things VPC had. In the end,
they both have their uses, advantages and disadvantages and I think
that both will become better products as a result of the competition.

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:02:16 +0100, Marlin Munrow
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Well you've failed to convince me.
>
>I can see I've hit a nerve with you, my apologies. I too will get up
>on a soap box for some MS products but if I told you which ones that
>would just be a red rag.
>
>In the end, a thing is a lie or it is truth. So you're still wrong in
>my view but we can agree to disagree since this is usenet and you're
>responses are well thought out but still wrong based on my experience
>- btw I accept that not everyone will share my experience.
>
>What cant speak cant lie so I can only go on my team's experience of
>the 3x-4x vmware ws product vs vpc.
>
>Its simple in my view you're wrong because we load 3 vpc sessions and
>all is well 4 and the whole system browns out versus 6 machines in a
>useable state with VMWare. I should also add, having purchased MSDN
>Universal partly because of vpc I was sorely disappointed and have
>returned to my old faithful vmware WS config. MSVPC takes nearly 30%
>longer to load a machine from cold and restore from saved state takes
>half the time on VMWare.
>
>My kit (and that of the team I manage) isnt too powerful but MSVPC
>runs poorly with similar results on our Compaq N610c's 1GB RAM /
>N620c's 1GB RAM The team I manage also use vpc but understand its
>limitations and will use VMWare in where appropriate.
>
>MS VPC is a poor shadow of VMWare workstation. (it pains me to say
>anything bad about MS products even those they liked so much they
>bought the company).
>
>I had *high* hopes of Connectix too, the technology that MS have
>bought showed a great deal of promise when I tested it.
>
>I stand by what I said though despite your protestations, this ms vpc
>is still a v1.0 product its standards of production and reliability
>say that under Microsoft its at best a v1.1 or 1.0 sp1 product despite
>its version number at acquisition.
>
>Regardless of what version number Connectix branded it (I have worked
>in development companies like Connectix) all I can say about this
>product and your argument, good though they both are, is...
>
>
>Close but no cigar.
>
>
>
>
>On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:00:47 -0800, Steve Jain
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>What a wonderfully tactful message.

><<<<SNIP>>>
>================================
>My Hero:
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
>(remove vroomfondle to email me)
>================================


Steve Jain, Microsoft MVP for Virtual PC for Windows
Website: http://www.essjae.com
 
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Marlin Munrow
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-05-2004
True

its almost like saying that the only rdbms worth looking at is SQL
Server 2000 isnt it ?

I'd also agree that without vpc some of the best parts of VM would
never have even been conceptualised - those connectix guys sold out
too soon ( (or mebbe MS will give them the financial backing to
produce an *even* better product such as Virtual Server ?)
<rhetorical>



On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:55:01 -0700, Steve Jain
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I'll agree to disagree
>
>Its true that VM Ware does have advantages over VPC, I use VM Ware for
>my Linux OSes, but I don't plan on giving up VPC for Windows or DOS
>OSes.
>
>The recent versions of VMWare Workstation have come a long way and
>incorporated a lot of the neat little things VPC had. In the end,
>they both have their uses, advantages and disadvantages and I think
>that both will become better products as a result of the competition.
>
>On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:02:16 +0100, Marlin Munrow
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Well you've failed to convince me.
>>
>>I can see I've hit a nerve with you, my apologies. I too will get up
>>on a soap box for some MS products but if I told you which ones that
>>would just be a red rag.

<<<SNIP>>>
================================
My Hero:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
(remove vroomfondle to email me)
================================
 
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Steve Jain
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-05-2004
Well, Connectix did approach MS for funding, as well as other
companies, but for what Connectix wanted, MS just decided to buy the
product outright.



On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:14:29 +0100, Marlin Munrow
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>True
>
>its almost like saying that the only rdbms worth looking at is SQL
>Server 2000 isnt it ?
>
>I'd also agree that without vpc some of the best parts of VM would
>never have even been conceptualised - those connectix guys sold out
>too soon ( (or mebbe MS will give them the financial backing to
>produce an *even* better product such as Virtual Server ?)
><rhetorical>
>
>
>
>On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:55:01 -0700, Steve Jain
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>I'll agree to disagree
>>
>>Its true that VM Ware does have advantages over VPC, I use VM Ware for
>>my Linux OSes, but I don't plan on giving up VPC for Windows or DOS
>>OSes.
>>
>>The recent versions of VMWare Workstation have come a long way and
>>incorporated a lot of the neat little things VPC had. In the end,
>>they both have their uses, advantages and disadvantages and I think
>>that both will become better products as a result of the competition.
>>
>>On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:02:16 +0100, Marlin Munrow
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>Well you've failed to convince me.
>>>
>>>I can see I've hit a nerve with you, my apologies. I too will get up
>>>on a soap box for some MS products but if I told you which ones that
>>>would just be a red rag.

><<<SNIP>>>
>================================
>My Hero:
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
>(remove vroomfondle to email me)
>================================


Steve Jain, Microsoft MVP for Virtual PC for Windows
Website: http://www.essjae.com
 
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Marlin Munrow
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-05-2004
Too sad for words a huge pity, very soon that spark of individuality
will be over come by the grey-skin necrosis and shortly followed by
the implants... Resistance is futile...


On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:02:48 -0700, Steve Jain
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Well, Connectix did approach MS for funding, as well as other
>companies, but for what Connectix wanted, MS just decided to buy the
>product outright.
>
>
>
>On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:14:29 +0100, Marlin Munrow
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>True
>>
>>its almost like saying that the only rdbms worth looking at is SQL
>>Server 2000 isnt it ?
>>
>>I'd also agree that without vpc some of the best parts of VM would
>>never have even been conceptualised - those connectix guys sold out
>>too soon ( (or mebbe MS will give them the financial backing to
>>produce an *even* better product such as Virtual Server ?)
>><rhetorical>

<<SNIP>>
================================
My Hero:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
(remove vroomfondle to email me)
================================
 
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