AutoGK Subtitle Problems

I have a 45 minute title that has subtitles, which show up when I play
the title on either my computer (WinDVD or WMP) or my DVDR. I convert
the full title with AutoGK, including subtitle support, and the
resulting AVI displays subtitles as expected.

I use DVD Shrink to clip the title to a 5 minute size, with subtitles
preserved. That is, the clip displays subtitles just like the full
title. But when I convert the clip with AutoGK, the resulting AVI does
not display any subtitles.

If I extend the length of the clip, there comes a point where the
resulting AVI does display subtitles but they are greatly out of sync.
IOW, the subtitle that should be started at the beginning of the clip
has been moved to a much later time in the clip.

I have used 1 pass by selecting the Target Quality setting but
subtitles do not show up. I also converted the clip with 2 passes but
subtitles were not displayed either. Yet when I play the IFO,
subtitles do display properly.

I would post this to the AutoGK forum but they make you wait 5 days
after you register for some stupid reason.

And the worst part is that the author has threatened to make this his
last version, which means there are serious bugs remaining.


--

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan

Bob

Bob wrote:
> I have a 45 minute title that has subtitles, which show up when I
> play
> the title on either my computer (WinDVD or WMP) or my DVDR. I
> convert
> the full title with AutoGK, including subtitle support, and the
> resulting AVI displays subtitles as expected.
>

So, what's the problem?

> I use DVD Shrink to clip the title to a 5 minute size, with
> subtitles
> preserved. That is, the clip displays subtitles just like the full
> title. But when I convert the clip with AutoGK, the resulting AVI
> does
> not display any subtitles.
>

Ah-hah! You want to simply make MPEG4-like clips of DVD segments with
subtitles but AutoGK misbehaves when asked to do so. Seems like AGK
is not the program for you then?

> If I extend the length of the clip, there comes a point where the
> resulting AVI does display subtitles but they are greatly out of
> sync.
> IOW, the subtitle that should be started at the beginning of the
> clip
> has been moved to a much later time in the clip.
>
> I have used 1 pass by selecting the Target Quality setting but
> subtitles do not show up. I also converted the clip with 2 passes
> but
> subtitles were not displayed either. Yet when I play the IFO,
> subtitles do display properly.
>
> I would post this to the AutoGK forum but they make you wait 5 days
> after you register for some stupid reason.
>
> And the worst part is that the author has threatened to make this
> his
> last version, which means there are serious bugs remaining.

Yes, I read this too. Fortunately, for the few DVD series which I
have converted, I've used FlaskMPEG, Xvid, and SubRip so I had no
problems. But then, this is a two step process which lacks batch
processing - albeit, a successful process toward the objective!

More than one author, I would presume, has been ****ed off with Divx's
moving target software. I stopped using it to encode after v5.02,
though I keep up-to-date with my purchased (and repurchased) license
and have wasted time with each of the amazingly inept mickey mousse
(hair gel that makes one appear to have DVDs for ears) conversion
programs they've proffered. I might mention too, that Divx has made
major changes to the product, even before 6.x, without altering the
FourCC code (DX50). Anyone see a DX60 FourCC yet?

Although I've not tried this, you may have inadvertently: VDub (either
MPEG2 or Mod) will process VOBs and there is a Subtitle plug-in
available. I fear tho, that this suite is what AGK invokes and your
results will be no different.

I dislike macro processes simply because we learn nothing from them
except that the job can be done. Give a man a macro and he'll do the
same job ad infinitum. Teach a man the underlying processes and he'll
become a fish eater

Bill's News

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:20:16 GMT, (Bob) wrote:

>I have a 45 minute title that has subtitles, which show up when I play
>the title on either my computer (WinDVD or WMP) or my DVDR. I convert
>the full title with AutoGK, including subtitle support, and the
>resulting AVI displays subtitles as expected.
>
>I use DVD Shrink to clip the title to a 5 minute size, with subtitles
>preserved. That is, the clip displays subtitles just like the full
>title. But when I convert the clip with AutoGK, the resulting AVI does
>not display any subtitles.
>
>If I extend the length of the clip, there comes a point where the
>resulting AVI does display subtitles but they are greatly out of sync.
>IOW, the subtitle that should be started at the beginning of the clip
>has been moved to a much later time in the clip.

In what format are your subtitles? Standalone file in either .srt or
..sup format, or embedded directly into the AVI? If directly embedded,
you might get better results after extracting them with something like
subripper, <http://www.divx-digest.com/software/subripper.html>. Worst
case, you might at least be able to better manage their timing by
using any text editor on the extracted subs.

[snip]
>And the worst part is that the author has threatened to make this his
>last version, which means there are serious bugs remaining.

Or it could mean the author thinks there are no serious bugs
remaining?

SportySpice

"SportySpice" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:20:16 GMT, (Bob) wrote:
>
>>I have a 45 minute title that has subtitles, which show up when I play
>>the title on either my computer (WinDVD or WMP) or my DVDR. I convert
>>the full title with AutoGK, including subtitle support, and the
>>resulting AVI displays subtitles as expected.
>>
>>I use DVD Shrink to clip the title to a 5 minute size, with subtitles
>>preserved. That is, the clip displays subtitles just like the full
>>title. But when I convert the clip with AutoGK, the resulting AVI does
>>not display any subtitles.
>>
>>If I extend the length of the clip, there comes a point where the
>>resulting AVI does display subtitles but they are greatly out of sync.
>>IOW, the subtitle that should be started at the beginning of the clip
>>has been moved to a much later time in the clip.
>
> In what format are your subtitles? Standalone file in either .srt or
> .sup format, or embedded directly into the AVI? If directly embedded,
> you might get better results after extracting them with something like
> subripper, <http://www.divx-digest.com/software/subripper.html>. Worst
> case, you might at least be able to better manage their timing by
> using any text editor on the extracted subs.
>
> [snip]
>>And the worst part is that the author has threatened to make this his
>>last version, which means there are serious bugs remaining.
>
> Or it could mean the author thinks there are no serious bugs
> remaining?


No not at all - he has been slaving away at this AutoGK project for many
years and in the last couple of years he has received un-called for flack
and the like - so I guess he has finally said f*** the lot and moved on.

I use AutoGk with most gratitude to the author with subtitles with no
problems - I prepare titles for the hearing disabled.
The problem may be the source of subtitles, the format and in a few cases I
have had a program that was 25fps and the subs sourced from another place
turned out to be 29.97 fps so a conversion and some editing in SubTitle
Workshop was necessary. There are potentially many variables to deal with..

In your case I would double check your settings in DVD Shrink to make sure
you are in fact getting the subs.
Also in AutoGK use the preview facility to see if the subs are visable
before embarking on a fruitless processing episode.

Netmask

> Bob wrote:
>> I have a 45 minute title that has subtitles, which show up when I play
>> the title on either my computer (WinDVD or WMP) or my DVDR. I convert
>> the full title with AutoGK, including subtitle support, and the
>> resulting AVI displays subtitles as expected.
>>
>
> So, what's the problem?
>
>> I use DVD Shrink to clip the title to a 5 minute size, with subtitles
>> preserved. That is, the clip displays subtitles just like the full
>> title. But when I convert the clip with AutoGK, the resulting AVI does
>> not display any subtitles.
>>

<Snip>

>> Yet when I play the IFO,
>> subtitles do display properly.
>>

"Bill's News" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> I dislike macro processes simply because we learn nothing from them except
> that the job can be done. Give a man a macro and he'll do the same job ad
> infinitum. Teach a man the underlying processes and he'll become a fish
> eater
>

Bob's stated position is that the software is defective if it doesn't
function in the manner he expects it to.

Since his subtitles play when the .ifo file is included, but not
when played from the .vob; the subpicture stream must be
referenced/played to see the subtitles. This is how DVDs
work. Now for .avi files:

You can't add subtitles to an AVI file. It's a limitation of the format.
You have to keep them as a separate file or use an OGM or MKV
container. So to play back there is a file (.srt or one of several others)
included with the .avi, and it's the player that adds the subtitles during
playback.

The other way to do it permanently applies the subtitles over the
video, and the subtitles can't be turned on or off.

Luck;
Ken

Ken Maltby

Ken Maltby wrote:

> Bob's stated position is that the software is defective if it doesn't
> function in the manner he expects it to.
>
> Since his subtitles play when the .ifo file is included, but not
> when played from the .vob; the subpicture stream must be
> referenced/played to see the subtitles. This is how DVDs
> work. Now for .avi files:
>
> You can't add subtitles to an AVI file. It's a limitation of the format.
> You have to keep them as a separate file or use an OGM or MKV
> container. So to play back there is a file (.srt or one of several others)
> included with the .avi, and it's the player that adds the subtitles during
> playback.
>
> The other way to do it permanently applies the subtitles over the
> video, and the subtitles can't be turned on or off.

AutoGK (IIRC) extracts the subtitle stream into an IDX/SUB pair. This
is apparently an image stream similar to (if not identical to) the
original DVD subtitle stream as SubRip will read it and OCR it. I
prefer .srts as it's easier to fix any typos and to retime it as i need
to.

-goro-

Goro

On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:24:16 -0800, "Bill's News"
<> wrote:

>Ah-hah! You want to simply make MPEG4-like clips of DVD segments with
>subtitles but AutoGK misbehaves when asked to do so.

Is it AutoGK or is it DVD Shrink?

Does anyone know of another VOB editor that preserves subtitles?
MPEG-2 editors strip subtitles and I do not want to fool with separate
subtitle editors.

>Seems like AGK is not the program for you then?

AGK promises to convert subtitles - I can find no restrictions in
terms of the input. The input itself shows subtitles, so I know they
are there. The AGK Log shows that subtitle processing has been done.
So why doesn't the AVI made from clip show subtitles? The full title
does.

>> And the worst part is that the author has threatened to make this
>> his last version, which means there are serious bugs remaining.

>Yes, I read this too. Fortunately, for the few DVD series which I
>have converted, I've used FlaskMPEG, Xvid, and SubRip so I had no
>problems.

I was able to get FlaskMPEG to work.

>But then, this is a two step process which lacks batch
>processing - albeit, a successful process toward the objective!

I want to avoid that sort of thing.

>More than one author, I would presume, has been ****ed off with Divx's
>moving target software.

I like the results using XviD so I do not fool with DivX.

>Although I've not tried this, you may have inadvertently: VDub (either
>MPEG2 or Mod) will process VOBs and there is a Subtitle plug-in
>available. I fear tho, that this suite is what AGK invokes and your
>results will be no different.

AGK does indeed invoke VDubMod.

>I dislike macro processes simply because we learn nothing from them
>except that the job can be done. Give a man a macro and he'll do the
>same job ad infinitum.

The problem is inadequate tutorials that are usually outdated. It is
very difficult to learn how to use something when it is not explained
properly.

>Teach a man the underlying processes and he'll
>become a fish eater

If you build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. If you
set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.


--

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan

Bob

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 23:31:09 GMT, SportySpice
<> wrote:

>In what format are your subtitles? Standalone file in either .srt or
>.sup format, or embedded directly into the AVI? If directly embedded,
>you might get better results after extracting them with something like
>subripper, <http://www.divx-digest.com/software/subripper.html>. Worst
>case, you might at least be able to better manage their timing by
>using any text editor on the extracted subs.

As I said, I started with a DVD title of one episode that is 45
minutes in length. That means I imported into AutoGK from a DVD. I
referenced the IFO file on the DVD for that particular title.
Everything worked as advertised.

Then I used DVD Shrink to cut down on the size of the title so I would
not have to wait so long for test conversions. I clipped out 5 minutes
and exported it in DVD format (VIDEO_TS, IFO, VOB, etc.) onto my hard
disk. I played it in WinDVD and WMP and the subtitles were present.

Then I converted this DVD format with AGK, again referencing the IFO.
AGK recognized the subtitle and placed it on the Subtitle dialog,
which I selected. Later AGK acknowledged that it had processed the
subtitle in the Log. Yet when I played the resulting AVI, there was no
subtitle.

I then made a much larger clip and discovered that the missing
subtitle was present but way out of sync. The first part of the
subtitle was a long time later in the AVI. This means there is a
subtitle sync problem with AGK.

>[snip]
>>And the worst part is that the author has threatened to make this his
>>last version, which means there are serious bugs remaining.

>Or it could mean the author thinks there are no serious bugs
>remaining?

There is a subtitle sync problem which I can prove exists.

There may be some kind of subtle incompatibility with clips made from
DVD Shrink - a misreferenced pointer perhaps. But how can that be the
case when WinDVD and WMP both played the subtitle properly from the
IFO/VOB?





--

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan

Bob

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 03:41:12 GMT, "Netmask"
<> wrote:

>In your case I would double check your settings in DVD Shrink to make sure
>you are in fact getting the subs.

As I made abundantly clear, I checked the clip with WinDVD and WMP.
The subtitle was present.

As I also made abundantly clear, AGK acknowledged the presence of the
subtitle by presenting it in the Subtitle dialog by name ("English").

As I also made abundantly clear, AGK later acknowledged that it had
processed the subtitle in the Log.


--

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan

Bob

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 03:41:12 GMT, "Netmask"
<> wrote:

>Also in AutoGK use the preview facility to see if the subs are visable

I do not completely trust Preview, but I will use it based on your
recommendation.

I ran the entire 45 minute DVD title thru AGK Preview and I see it
displayed the subtitle correctly.

Then I ran the 5 minute clip from DVD Shrink thru AGK Preview and it
did not display the subtitle properly.

I checked the DVD Shrink clip and it displays the subtitle properly in
WinDVD.


--

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession.
I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
--Ronald Reagan

Bob