HDTV WONDER?? Purchasing a outdoor UHF antenna.

Greetings,

I would like to assemble a HD PVR possibly using this card with my
computer. I just purchased a LG plasma HD TV it has a it's own HD tuner
plus NTSC tuner which I want to use to capture OTA signals.

I have heard this ATI card is having it's problems. Has anyone have personal
experience with it and is a software problem?

I heard of the Fusion HDTV 5 Gold is a good tuner, but I can't locate one
hear in Ontario.

I would also like to purchase a UHF outdoor antenna (CHANNEL MASTER OR OTHER
MANUFACTURES) anyone know where I can get one in Toronto or Mississauga?

I'm trying to avoided the costs associated of having to pay the monthly bill
for the HD signal to the cable company.

Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Newbi

Wishing you all HAPPY NEW YEAR!

J Poy

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:30:01 -0500, "J Poy" <> Gave
us:

>Greetings,
>
>I would like to assemble a HD PVR possibly using this card with my
>computer. I just purchased a LG plasma HD TV it has a it's own HD tuner
>plus NTSC tuner which I want to use to capture OTA signals.
>
>I have heard this ATI card is having it's problems. Has anyone have personal
>experience with it and is a software problem?
>
>I heard of the Fusion HDTV 5 Gold is a good tuner, but I can't locate one
>hear in Ontario.
>
>I would also like to purchase a UHF outdoor antenna (CHANNEL MASTER OR OTHER
>MANUFACTURES) anyone know where I can get one in Toronto or Mississauga?
>
>I'm trying to avoided the costs associated of having to pay the monthly bill
>for the HD signal to the cable company.
>
>Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Newbi
>
>Wishing you all HAPPY NEW YEAR!
>


You want an antenna with a preamplifier. 12 dB gain is a good
number. 6 or 9 would be a good minimum amplification factor.

>
>
> You want an antenna with a preamplifier. 12 dB gain is a good
> number. 6 or 9 would be a good minimum amplification factor.

There is no rule that says that you need a preamp. It depends on the
distance
between the antenna and your receiver. Reception is all about signal to
noise
ratio. If the preamp is noisier than the front end in your receiver
(likely) then
your reception will suffer.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:24:40 -0800, <r> Gave us:

>
>>
>>
>> You want an antenna with a preamplifier. 12 dB gain is a good
>> number. 6 or 9 would be a good minimum amplification factor.
>
>There is no rule that says that you need a preamp.


Yes, however, having one and not needing one is far better than
needing one, and not having one.

> It depends on the
>distance
>between the antenna and your receiver.

No... Really?

> Reception is all about signal to
>noise
>ratio.

Nope. reception is all about signal strength. Also, in the digital
realm, noise is not the problem. Bit error rate is.

> If the preamp is noisier than the front end in your receiver
>(likely) then
>your reception will suffer.

Doesn't sound like a pre-amplifier that I would want. D'oh!

I want one that functions. I don't know what dollar store crap you
have been looking at.

Roy L. Fuchs wrote:

>
> Nope. reception is all about signal strength. Also, in the digital
> realm, noise is not the problem. Bit error rate is.
>

However, there is a direct relation. VEry direct.


>
>> If the preamp is noisier than the front end in your receiver
>>(likely) then
>>your reception will suffer.
>
>
> Doesn't sound like a pre-amplifier that I would want. D'oh!
>
> I want one that functions. I don't know what dollar store crap you
> have been looking at.


Even the cheapest preamp will have a better noise figure than
almost all receivers. Whether that will be rendered immaterial
by overload is a very different matter .... receivers are usually
better than preamps in that area.

Doug McDonald

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:23:26 -0600, Doug McDonald
<mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> Gave us:

>Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
>
>>
>> Nope. reception is all about signal strength. Also, in the digital
>> realm, noise is not the problem. Bit error rate is.
>>
>
>However, there is a direct relation. VEry direct.
>
>
>>
>>> If the preamp is noisier than the front end in your receiver
>>>(likely) then
>>>your reception will suffer.
>>
>>
>> Doesn't sound like a pre-amplifier that I would want. D'oh!
>>
>> I want one that functions. I don't know what dollar store crap you
>> have been looking at.
>
>
>Even the cheapest preamp will have a better noise figure than
>almost all receivers. Whether that will be rendered immaterial
>by overload is a very different matter .... receivers are usually
>better than preamps in that area.
>
>Doug McDonald


Which is why most amplified antennas have a gain control, and even
an on/off/bypass switch.

J Poy wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I would like to assemble a HD PVR possibly using this card with my
> computer. I just purchased a LG plasma HD TV it has a it's own HD tuner
> plus NTSC tuner which I want to use to capture OTA signals.
>
> I have heard this ATI card is having it's problems. Has anyone have personal
> experience with it and is a software problem?
>
> I heard of the Fusion HDTV 5 Gold is a good tuner, but I can't locate one
> hear in Ontario.
>
> I would also like to purchase a UHF outdoor antenna (CHANNEL MASTER OR OTHER
> MANUFACTURES) anyone know where I can get one in Toronto or Mississauga?
>
> I'm trying to avoided the costs associated of having to pay the monthly bill
> for the HD signal to the cable company.
>
> Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

No expierence with any HDTV product but I do use an ATI-TVwonder card,
works great, installation was straight forward and performance has been
"As Advertised" It currently records a show for a friend, I deliver on
a different HD product (Hard Drive) every couple of weeks.

Hauppauge also makes a good card from what I'm told (Win-tv) Do not know
if they make an HDTV product... Their new line should come with some
very familure feeling software in it's box.

Now: The antenna... Channel Master is a very good antenna company. You
should find a dealer listed in your local phone directory, That is
about all I can say.. You can do the net search but I'd find a local
dealer, I'd also go to multiple dealers.

I used their best antenna atop a 100' tower at my parents house, Which
according to the Television coverage maps should NOT have been able to
watch anything but snow (And this time of year we could see all the snow
we wanted and then some without the need for a tv )

We often watched shows broadcast from over 100 miles away (over
140KM)and got good reception as well.

Of course... Took two of us to erect the tower and put the antenna up
there, The system used a head end amplifier, coax feed and a
distributation system so we could watch at a number of different places
in the house,,, very professional instalation... I should know.. I did it.

--
John in Detroit E-Dress is smoked, try: w a 8 y x m at a r r l dot n e t

Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:24:40 -0800, <r> Gave us:
>
>
>>>
>>> You want an antenna with a preamplifier. 12 dB gain is a good
>>>number. 6 or 9 would be a good minimum amplification factor.
>>
>>There is no rule that says that you need a preamp.
>
>
>
> Yes, however, having one and not needing one is far better than
> needing one, and not having one.


Actually,,, With Channel Master's top end antennas that is not, entierly
, true.

You see, the top end antennas have a compartment at the head (antenna)
end, this compartment contains either the proper matching balun (300 or
75 ohm) or a pre-ampolifier (and CM's pre-amps are very good, at least
in my expierence, which I'll admit is some decades old)

So, if you are willing to climb up the tower (I was, even if I do suffer
from acrophobia, let me tell you, 100 feet up, even with a safety belt,
was not exactly fun) to pop in the head end unit, you can put the
antenna up, make sure you put a junction or other device where you are
going to put the power adapter (In my case in the basement), next to the
power mains) you can always after-instalation climb up and make the
change.

now... Where I'm at now (Detroit) I'm only a few miles from most of the
major television transmitters... If I put a pre-amp in I have to be very
careful to avoid front end overload (That is, I can use one, but only if
there is a distrubution block downstream, at least a 4-way splitter or
don't use a pre-amp)

Thus, I have 2 antennas on this house, both split two ways
--
John in Detroit E-Dress is smoked, try: w a 8 y x m at a r r l dot n e t

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:33:35 GMT, John in Detroit <>
Gave us:

>You see, the top end antennas have a compartment at the head (antenna)
>end, this compartment contains either the proper matching balun (300 or
>75 ohm) or a pre-ampolifier (and CM's pre-amps are very good, at least
>in my expierence, which I'll admit is some decades old)


The entire point was and still is that a preamplified antenna is
better than not having one. PARTICULARLY in the digital realm as
ghost signals, reflections, etc. are not a problem as they are in
analog reception.

Roy L. Fuchs <> wrote in
news::

>
> The entire point was and still is that a preamplified antenna is
> better than not having one. PARTICULARLY in the digital realm as
> ghost signals, reflections, etc. are not a problem as they are in
> analog reception.
>

+++++++++++++

It depends on the individual situation and circumstances. A digital
signal that is too strong can be just as problematic as a signal that is
not strong enough. If the signal is too weak a pre-amp can help, but
remember that the pre-amp will amplify any spontaneous noise along with
the desired signal. If the signal is too strong an attenuator can help
but remember that the attenuator will weaken the desired signal along
with the ever-present noise.

The goal is to have a signal that is strong enough to provide the desired
signal to the antenna input but not so strong as to overload it.

When I first installed an 802.11g wireless connection on my computer, I
spent the first few days cursing it and throwing objects at my computer.
It had intermittent lockups and crashes requiring many "power
off/reboots", I re-read the instructions many times over to no avail. I
began to think that I had gotten a defective part .... either the
wireless router itself or the USB wireless device that communicates with
it. I tried re-positioning both devices many times. It would work great
for a few hours and then it would lock up.

I finally came to the conclusion that my signal might be too strong. When
I installed the wireless router, I had shortened the coaxial cable by
about 75 feet and moved my cable modem back to the corner of the house
nearest the point where the cable service entered. Just to check out my
theory, I coupled in about 75 feet of extra coax between the cable
service entry point and the cable modem to serve as an attenuator. I
rolled the excess cable into a neat roll. An tiny attenuator would have
probably worked as well but I did not have one handy. I have not had a
single problem since. It has worked to absolute perfection.

To summarize: I have been a liscensed Ham Radio Operator since 1958 and I
had a 37 year career as a computer engineer with IBM Corp. I say that
sometimes a preamp will help but there are times when a preamp will make
matters worse.

PON