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Blu-Ray v. HD-DVD

 
 
Joshua Zyber
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      07-17-2005
"AZ Nomad" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>In hindsight, yes that much appears evident now. At the time, it was
>>very much unclear.

>
> Sheesh, I thought it was clear. "Let me get this straight: you have
> to
> buy the disks, can only play them over a 48 hour period and then throw
> them
> out?"


To you and me, it may have always sounded like a terrible idea. However,
that was no indicator of what the average Joe Schmoe was going to think.



 
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Alpha
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      07-17-2005

"Tarkus" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)9.com...
> On 7/16/2005 1:55:13 PM, Alpha wrote:
>
>> "GMAN" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:db7lpp$ubo$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>> It isn't really a question of which one is cheaper to manufacture.
>>>> Both formats will be cheap enough. The real question is, what will
>>>> be the impact on the factory cost of new DVD players--players that
>>>> have to handle DVD's as well as Blue-Ray. Consider the range of
>>>> formats facing the consumer today--without Blu-Ray:
>>>>
>>>>DVD
>>>>DVD-R
>>>>DVD-RW
>>>>DVD+R
>>>>DVD+RW
>>>>DVD-RAM
>>>>CD
>>>>CD-R
>>>>CD-RW
>>>
>>> Making a player today that is capable of playing all those is trivial
>>> and can be done on the cheap. You already can go to walmart or best
>>> buy and get $29 players that almost cook your breakfast.
>>>
>>> SO adding playback of those formats in a Blu Ray or HD DVD player
>>> should be trivial

>>
>> It will NOT BE TRIVIAL. In fact it may be impossible. All of the
>> formats you mentioned have the same physical disc. That is NOT TRUE
>> between HD DVD and Blue Ray.

>
> So you're saying that CD, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW
> and DVD-RAM all use the same physical disc? So I can buy CD-Rs and burn
> a DVD9 on them?
>
>> That is why Blu Ray requires completely new production facilities and
>> HD DVD does not.

>
> That certainly doesn't mean players can't support both formats.



It will most certainly, however, require a nontrivial solution.


 
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Alpha
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      07-17-2005

"Jeff Rife" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
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Alpha ((E-Mail Removed)) wrote in alt.video.dvd:
> It will NOT BE TRIVIAL. In fact it may be impossible. All of the formats
> you mentioned have the same physical disc. That is NOT TRUE between HD
> DVD
> and Blue Ray.


Minus the fact that DVD and CD do *not* use the same disc (as others have
pointed out), it should be trivial, as Pioneer long ago did a *much* harder
job with their laserdisc/DVD combo players.

I am well aware of this, since I have one. They were, and always remained,
expensive to produce, because there is essentially a dual spindle system as
well. I am suggesting that, minimally, this is what is required here since
the discs have different tilt, jitter, and thickness aspects. A dual
servo/laser may also be required.







 
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Alpha
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      07-17-2005
See also:

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-x-2077-x-x-x


From which the following quote:

"Because of the differences between the two high-definition formats, it's
nearly impossible to design a player that can read both Blu-ray and HD-DVD
discs, and any such player would be prohibitively expensive for a consumer.
Engineering breakthroughs and general price drops may make a dual-format
player viable in the future, but don't expect any first-generation
high-definition players to have that capability."








 
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AZ Nomad
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      07-17-2005
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 02:32:12 GMT, Joshua Zyber <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>"AZ Nomad" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>In hindsight, yes that much appears evident now. At the time, it was
>>>very much unclear.

>>
>> Sheesh, I thought it was clear. "Let me get this straight: you have
>> to
>> buy the disks, can only play them over a 48 hour period and then throw
>> them
>> out?"


>To you and me, it may have always sounded like a terrible idea. However,
>that was no indicator of what the average Joe Schmoe was going to think.


The average joe schmoe was going to stick to VHS until the dust settled and in
any case, the average joe wasn't going to pay double for player and disks for
the thrill of having to string a phone line to their stereo system, do all
their shopping off a tiny rack at circuit city instead of the corner video
store etc.

The movie studios cummed all over themselves at the prospect of DIVX, but
everybody else just ignored it.
 
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Alpha
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      07-17-2005
Finally, I would state: In the longest run, NO disc format will survive.
First, there will be transmission of high speed data directly to a device.
Second, there will be silicon storage and advanced compression techniques
(think Ipod) for video and even with potentially reduced detail, the
convenince will matter more than quality.

I would never listen to the London Philharmonic on an Ipod, but millions of
listeners don't mind Green Day on such a device.



 
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Joshua Zyber
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      07-17-2005
AZ Nomad" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> The average joe schmoe was going to stick to VHS until the dust
> settled and in
> any case, the average joe wasn't going to pay double for player and
> disks for
> the thrill of having to string a phone line to their stereo system, do
> all
> their shopping off a tiny rack at circuit city instead of the corner
> video
> store etc.


Again, this is obvious to us now, but it was not obvious at the time. At
the time, the feeling was that most people preferred to rent rather than
buy, and would favor a format that provided cheaper one-time-use discs
that they could watch and discard, just like a rental but without the
hassle of returning it to the video store. The rental model was
extremely successful with VHS, and up to that point video sales were
fairly uncommon except for children's titles (because the kids insist on
watching the same cartoons over and over again). It was assumed that
Divx would appeal to the general demographic in those terms.

Of course, we look back now and see how wrong we were, but it was not at
all clear at the time that people would jump on the opportunity to buy
and collect large movie collections on DVD, because they never had done
so with VHS or laserdisc.

Divx was a real threat, one that fortunately died off quickly.


 
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Goro
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      07-17-2005


Joshua Zyber wrote:
> "AZ Nomad" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>In hindsight, yes that much appears evident now. At the time, it was
> >>very much unclear.

> >
> > Sheesh, I thought it was clear. "Let me get this straight: you have
> > to
> > buy the disks, can only play them over a 48 hour period and then throw
> > them
> > out?"

>
> To you and me, it may have always sounded like a terrible idea. However,
> that was no indicator of what the average Joe Schmoe was going to think.


This is true, but I believe at the time that Joe Schmoe was not even
really thinking about DVDs. At the time, it was primarily the early
adopters, those who were cognizant of the benefits of DVD, ie.
Laserdisc owners.

-goro-

 
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Allan
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      07-17-2005
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:32:17 -0700, "Alpha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Finally, I would state: In the longest run, NO disc format will survive.


Wrong.

>First, there will be transmission of high speed data directly to a device.
>Second, there will be silicon storage and advanced compression techniques
>(think Ipod) for video and even with potentially reduced detail, the
>convenince will matter more than quality.


Yeah... one thing that has shown up in the past.... poor quality (ie:
8-track/cassette/LP) will always survive quality.

+Sarcasm mode of+

>I would never listen to the London Philharmonic on an Ipod, but millions of
>listeners don't mind Green Day on such a device.


You arrogant ****...... many, many folks (including Green Day fans)
have nothing to do with crap .mp3.








"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
-- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
- Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
 
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Allan
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      07-17-2005
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:35:09 -0400, Jeff Rife <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Alpha ((E-Mail Removed)) wrote in alt.video.dvd:


>> It will NOT BE TRIVIAL. In fact it may be impossible.


Just bought a VHS/DVD player for my uncle... $179 Canadian... very
different formats... far... far from impossible.








"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
-- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
- Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
 
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