terminator dvd 5.1 - 2.0 sound problems?

I have the region 1 dvd of the terminator, the 5.1 sound track is the same
as region 4 but this version also has the original mono track and I have
been very surprised to find the mono track far superior in ways which were
supposed to be improved by the new 5.1 track, I realise the new track is not
mixed the same and so will be different in more ways than just surround
effects but something else is going on here as I will explain.
The gunshots sounded muffled on the 5.1, I expected that this is where
the 5.1 would be better but the mono was way better, so much so that I am
wondering if my setup is adversely affecting the 5.1 sound. You see I get
my dvd sound through a good quality separate component stereo amplifier
so the 5.1 sound is downmixed to 2 channel analog stereo by my dvdplayer,
while this will have obvious consequences I am wondering if it is affecting
the sound in less obvious but dramatic ways. Anybody else able to compare
the technoir scene on a good 5.1 setup, I would really be interested to
hear if the gunshots are still more dramatic on the mono track.
I'm really starting to suspect that you can't always get away with a
stereo setup on soundtracks designed for 5.1, I had done tests in the past
on
other dvd's and not noticed much difference. Unfortunately there is no info
on
these sorts of things, which surprises me a bit, would have thought it would
have been something that was well tested since plenty of people are
using similar setups to me. I just want good stereo sound.
A quote from this website
http://www.dvdmaniacs.net/Reviews/Q-T/terminator.html "This release
features new music and Foley tracks recorded especially for presentation in
Dolby
Digital 5.1. The new sound mix is impressive, giving relatively greater
prominence to the music and effects vs. the dialogue, compared to the
original." Now this is the exact opposite to my experience, I would say
exactly the same except the other way around. Something fishy going on
here?

I just tested the 5.1 against the stereo track on the lord of the rings dvd
on my stereo setup and the difference is not easy to pick up, there is a
little better bass response when using the stereo track. So going by this
the 5.1 track on the terminator dvd should not be suffering in quality much
from the downmixing but without knowing exactly how the downmixing is
achieved and what, if any consideration has to be made when making the 5.1
track I can't be sure that the terminator does not suffer badly from the
downmixing. 1 other dvd that I suspect might suffer adversely from
downmixing is the region 4 matrix reloaded as the vocals seem far too low in
volume,
yet I have not seen a lot of complaints so this makes me suspect a
downmixing problem. From what I can tell though most dvd's do suffer very
little in quality when downmixing, obviously they loose the surround effects
and some loss of bass volume etc....
If I just had access to a 5.1 setup I could determine what is going on
myself, I would really like to know if the
terminator 5.1 track is been destroyed by the downmixing. If anybody is
prepared to help me then an easy bit to test is the chase through the
tunnel, when listening to the mono track I hear strong tunnel echoes when
the bombs are dropped where as the downmixed 5.1 track has just a low
frequency thud sound with no echoes, the difference is huge which should
solve any subjectivity problems. I think it would be interesting to know
more about the effects of downmixing as a lot of people don't have 5.1
setups for various reasons.

rolling

rolling wrote:
> I have the region 1 dvd of the terminator, the 5.1 sound track is the same
> as region 4 but this version also has the original mono track and I have
> been very surprised to find the mono track far superior in ways which were
> supposed to be improved by the new 5.1 track, I realise the new track is not
> mixed the same and so will be different in more ways than just surround
> effects but something else is going on here as I will explain.
> The gunshots sounded muffled on the 5.1, I expected that this is where
> the 5.1 would be better but the mono was way better, so much so that I am
> wondering if my setup is adversely affecting the 5.1 sound. You see I get
> my dvd sound through a good quality separate component stereo amplifier
> so the 5.1 sound is downmixed to 2 channel analog stereo by my dvdplayer,
> while this will have obvious consequences I am wondering if it is affecting
> the sound in less obvious but dramatic ways. Anybody else able to compare
> the technoir scene on a good 5.1 setup, I would really be interested to
> hear if the gunshots are still more dramatic on the mono track.
> I'm really starting to suspect that you can't always get away with a
> stereo setup on soundtracks designed for 5.1, I had done tests in the past
> on
> other dvd's and not noticed much difference. Unfortunately there is no info
> on
> these sorts of things, which surprises me a bit, would have thought it would
> have been something that was well tested since plenty of people are
> using similar setups to me. I just want good stereo sound.

AIUI you'll often get muffled sound mixing 5.1 to 2 channel no matter
how you do it - some SFX have a significant delay between "arriving" on
the different channels. When a sound is mixed off say the 2RH channels
and has a delay F-->R the resultant single channel sound has 2 separate
versions of the same noise superimposed on each other casuing it to
sound "blurred".

Sorry for the not very good explanation, but I was having trouble trying
to explain it in any sensible form of words.



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