Strange DVD Diagnostic Problem...

Having been burning CD-R's since 1997 or so, I finally moved into the
21st century recently and added a DVD-RW drive into my system. It was
a rather painful process, and I almost became so disillusioned that I
almost gave up, believing the DVD medium just hadn't matured enough to
be reliable. As it turns out, it was just a run of bad luck. The
forst drive I bought was an 8x Lite-On (SOHW-812s), which bombed out
on *any* media when recording at higher than 2x. I returned that and
purchased a Pioneer DVR-108, which exhibited the very same problem. I
then exchanged the DVR-108 for another 108 which fared a *little*
better, but still produced DVD's that were nearly unsable if burned at
higher half their rated speed, (i.e. I had to burn 8x DVD's at 4x to
get usable disks). The 2nd Pioneer also refused to recognose several
of the disks it produced, aactuaklly locking up the system si that I
had to reboot to remove the DVD - but the same DVD worked perfectly on
all my other DVD plater and drives! (Strange, huh?)

Realizing that others had no problems, I decided to give it all one
last chance. I wass now scared to death of Pioneer, so I exchanged the
2nd Pioneer for an NEC ND-3500, which was the second highest
recommended brand.

Upon installation, the NEC worked like a charm! I guess the odds
were astronomical, but I must have earlier purchased *3* faulty drives
in a row! The NEC 3500 drive works with every brand of media thrown
into it without undue errors. While it even appears to burn a *few*
certain media at higher than ated speed without problems, I stick to
rated speed for reliability.

Demanding reliability, I double-check newly-burnt DVD's after
recording. I'm not content to simply use the "auto-verify" in Nero,
and use Infinidyne's DVD Diagnostic. (I've used CD-R Diagnostic for
many years, so I simply upgraded it to to the newer product, DVD
Diagnostic).

Which leads me to the problem this post is about.

The problem I am having is that DVD Diagnostic frequently reports that
there are several "...files in the directory which are not recorded in
the track." I then check the "Details" tab and locate the filenames,
indicated by the red "X" error icon and the "N/A" in the Blocks field.

The strange thing is that the files ARE present, without any apparent
error, and can be copies, executed, etc from the DVD, despite DVD
Diagnostics alert to the contrary. The files are there, but DVD
Diagnostic apparently just cannot access them so reports them as
listed on the directory, but missing from the actual filesystem.

This behaviour is consistent in that no matter what DVD drive I use,
the *same* files* are always reported MIA, and that the files can
alwayse be accessed by anything other tghan DVD Diagnostic. The
problem follows the disk so it's not the drive or computer.

Has anybody else notice this quirk? I'd like to know whether the
problem lies with DVD Diagnostic's analysis engine, or wherther there
is a strange flaw in the actual DVD file system which triggers the
"false" alarm? TIA for any comments.

Software / OS: Nero 6.3 under Windows ME and Windows 98SE.
DVD-RW Burner: NEC ND-3500
DVDROM drives: Pioneer DVD-106s, Lite-On SOHC-5232K Combo

-Jack-

--
Email replies to:

n2hqc (at) earthlink (dot) com

Jack

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:14:54 -0500, Jack
<> wrote:

>
>Having been burning CD-R's since 1997 or so, I finally moved into the
>21st century recently and added a DVD-RW drive into my system. It was
>a rather painful process, and I almost became so disillusioned that I
>almost gave up, believing the DVD medium just hadn't matured enough to
>be reliable. As it turns out, it was just a run of bad luck. The
>forst drive I bought was an 8x Lite-On (SOHW-812s), which bombed out
>on *any* media when recording at higher than 2x. I returned that and
>purchased a Pioneer DVR-108, which exhibited the very same problem. I
>then exchanged the DVR-108 for another 108 which fared a *little*
>better, but still produced DVD's that were nearly unsable if burned at
>higher half their rated speed, (i.e. I had to burn 8x DVD's at 4x to
>get usable disks). The 2nd Pioneer also refused to recognose several
>of the disks it produced, aactuaklly locking up the system si that I
>had to reboot to remove the DVD - but the same DVD worked perfectly on
>all my other DVD plater and drives! (Strange, huh?)
>
>Realizing that others had no problems, I decided to give it all one
>last chance. I wass now scared to death of Pioneer, so I exchanged the
>2nd Pioneer for an NEC ND-3500, which was the second highest
>recommended brand.
>
>Upon installation, the NEC worked like a charm! I guess the odds
>were astronomical, but I must have earlier purchased *3* faulty drives
>in a row! The NEC 3500 drive works with every brand of media thrown
>into it without undue errors. While it even appears to burn a *few*
>certain media at higher than ated speed without problems, I stick to
>rated speed for reliability.
>
>Demanding reliability, I double-check newly-burnt DVD's after
>recording. I'm not content to simply use the "auto-verify" in Nero,
>and use Infinidyne's DVD Diagnostic. (I've used CD-R Diagnostic for
>many years, so I simply upgraded it to to the newer product, DVD
>Diagnostic).
>
>Which leads me to the problem this post is about.
>
>The problem I am having is that DVD Diagnostic frequently reports that
>there are several "...files in the directory which are not recorded in
>the track." I then check the "Details" tab and locate the filenames,
>indicated by the red "X" error icon and the "N/A" in the Blocks field.
>
>The strange thing is that the files ARE present, without any apparent
>error, and can be copies, executed, etc from the DVD, despite DVD
>Diagnostics alert to the contrary. The files are there, but DVD
>Diagnostic apparently just cannot access them so reports them as
>listed on the directory, but missing from the actual filesystem.
>
>This behaviour is consistent in that no matter what DVD drive I use,
>the *same* files* are always reported MIA, and that the files can
>alwayse be accessed by anything other tghan DVD Diagnostic. The
>problem follows the disk so it's not the drive or computer.
>
>Has anybody else notice this quirk? I'd like to know whether the
>problem lies with DVD Diagnostic's analysis engine, or wherther there
>is a strange flaw in the actual DVD file system which triggers the
>"false" alarm? TIA for any comments.
>
>Software / OS: Nero 6.3 under Windows ME and Windows 98SE.
>DVD-RW Burner: NEC ND-3500
>DVDROM drives: Pioneer DVD-106s, Lite-On SOHC-5232K Combo
>

Since you're having problems of some sort or another with three drives
haven't you considered it might be the MB hardware? An overclocked BX
chipset will do this, also Promise controllers have problems with
Pioneer drives. And I assume DMA has been enabled in Control Panel?
Something along these lines. I have had exactly the problem described
with a Pioneer 107 on a Promise controller, but as slave to the boot
drive it was fine.

... Steve

Steve(JazzHunter)

Your computer is ****ed up, not the FOUR brand new drives.



"Jack" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> Having been burning CD-R's since 1997 or so, I finally moved into the
> 21st century recently and added a DVD-RW drive into my system. It was
> a rather painful process, and I almost became so disillusioned that I
> almost gave up, believing the DVD medium just hadn't matured enough to
> be reliable. As it turns out, it was just a run of bad luck. The
> forst drive I bought was an 8x Lite-On (SOHW-812s), which bombed out
> on *any* media when recording at higher than 2x. I returned that and
> purchased a Pioneer DVR-108, which exhibited the very same problem. I
> then exchanged the DVR-108 for another 108 which fared a *little*
> better, but still produced DVD's that were nearly unsable if burned at
> higher half their rated speed, (i.e. I had to burn 8x DVD's at 4x to
> get usable disks). The 2nd Pioneer also refused to recognose several
> of the disks it produced, aactuaklly locking up the system si that I
> had to reboot to remove the DVD - but the same DVD worked perfectly on
> all my other DVD plater and drives! (Strange, huh?)
>
> Realizing that others had no problems, I decided to give it all one
> last chance. I wass now scared to death of Pioneer, so I exchanged the
> 2nd Pioneer for an NEC ND-3500, which was the second highest
> recommended brand.
>
> Upon installation, the NEC worked like a charm! I guess the odds
> were astronomical, but I must have earlier purchased *3* faulty drives
> in a row! The NEC 3500 drive works with every brand of media thrown
> into it without undue errors. While it even appears to burn a *few*
> certain media at higher than ated speed without problems, I stick to
> rated speed for reliability.
>
> Demanding reliability, I double-check newly-burnt DVD's after
> recording. I'm not content to simply use the "auto-verify" in Nero,
> and use Infinidyne's DVD Diagnostic. (I've used CD-R Diagnostic for
> many years, so I simply upgraded it to to the newer product, DVD
> Diagnostic).
>
> Which leads me to the problem this post is about.
>
> The problem I am having is that DVD Diagnostic frequently reports that
> there are several "...files in the directory which are not recorded in
> the track." I then check the "Details" tab and locate the filenames,
> indicated by the red "X" error icon and the "N/A" in the Blocks field.
>
> The strange thing is that the files ARE present, without any apparent
> error, and can be copies, executed, etc from the DVD, despite DVD
> Diagnostics alert to the contrary. The files are there, but DVD
> Diagnostic apparently just cannot access them so reports them as
> listed on the directory, but missing from the actual filesystem.
>
> This behaviour is consistent in that no matter what DVD drive I use,
> the *same* files* are always reported MIA, and that the files can
> alwayse be accessed by anything other tghan DVD Diagnostic. The
> problem follows the disk so it's not the drive or computer.
>
> Has anybody else notice this quirk? I'd like to know whether the
> problem lies with DVD Diagnostic's analysis engine, or wherther there
> is a strange flaw in the actual DVD file system which triggers the
> "false" alarm? TIA for any comments.
>
> Software / OS: Nero 6.3 under Windows ME and Windows 98SE.
> DVD-RW Burner: NEC ND-3500
> DVDROM drives: Pioneer DVD-106s, Lite-On SOHC-5232K Combo
>
> -Jack-
>
> --
> Email replies to:
>
> n2hqc (at) earthlink (dot) com

Pug Fugley

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:12:42 GMT, "Pug Fugley" <> wrote:

>Your computer is ****ed up, not the FOUR brand new drives.

And you are a foul-mouthed, top-posting troll.

Go back to Walmart and upload your credit card for some DVD's to give
to your mother. BTW, does Walmart give you an employee discount?

Jack

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:07:02 -0500, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
<> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:14:54 -0500, Jack
><> wrote:
>

>>
>>The problem I am having is that DVD Diagnostic frequently reports that
>>there are several "...files in the directory which are not recorded in
>>the track." I then check the "Details" tab and locate the filenames,
>>indicated by the red "X" error icon and the "N/A" in the Blocks field.
>>
>>The strange thing is that the files ARE present, without any apparent
>>error, and can be copies, executed, etc from the DVD, despite DVD
>>Diagnostics alert to the contrary. The files are there, but DVD
>>Diagnostic apparently just cannot access them so reports them as
>>listed on the directory, but missing from the actual filesystem.

>
>Since you're having problems of some sort or another with three drives
>haven't you considered it might be the MB hardware? An overclocked BX
>chipset will do this, also Promise controllers have problems with
>Pioneer drives. And I assume DMA has been enabled in Control Panel?
>Something along these lines. I have had exactly the problem described
>with a Pioneer 107 on a Promise controller, but as slave to the boot
>drive it was fine.
>
>.. Steve

Thanks for the reply.

I definitely considered the possibility, and doublechecked the cables
and DMA settings. I also tried the Lite-On and both Pioneers on 2
different machines before returning them. As far as my systems go,
they are 1.8GHz AMD based, not overclocked, and the DVD burners are
Masters on the Secondary onboard IDE. No weird hardware attached.

As it stands, I'm having no problems with the NEC 3500, nor with a
second NEC 3500 that I just added to another machine. They work
perfectly.

I'm still puzzled by DVD Diagnostic's behavior. DVD Diagnostic still
shows that little bug on all machines and all DVDROM drives used to
read those DVD's that have the misdiagnosed files.

I'm not really concerned as the "missing" files are actually there and
can be seen and accessed normally, b ut I'm just curious because DVD
Diagnostic can't seem to find them.

Jack

"Jack" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> Having been burning CD-R's since 1997 or so, I finally moved into the
> 21st century recently and added a DVD-RW drive into my system. It was
> a rather painful process, and I almost became so disillusioned that I
> almost gave up, believing the DVD medium just hadn't matured enough to
> be reliable. As it turns out, it was just a run of bad luck. The
> forst drive I bought was an 8x Lite-On (SOHW-812s), which bombed out
> on *any* media when recording at higher than 2x. I returned that and
> purchased a Pioneer DVR-108, which exhibited the very same problem. I
> then exchanged the DVR-108 for another 108 which fared a *little*
> better, but still produced DVD's that were nearly unsable if burned at
> higher half their rated speed, (i.e. I had to burn 8x DVD's at 4x to
> get usable disks). The 2nd Pioneer also refused to recognose several
> of the disks it produced, aactuaklly locking up the system si that I
> had to reboot to remove the DVD - but the same DVD worked perfectly on
> all my other DVD plater and drives! (Strange, huh?)
>
> Realizing that others had no problems, I decided to give it all one
> last chance. I wass now scared to death of Pioneer, so I exchanged the
> 2nd Pioneer for an NEC ND-3500, which was the second highest
> recommended brand.
>
> Upon installation, the NEC worked like a charm! I guess the odds
> were astronomical, but I must have earlier purchased *3* faulty drives
> in a row! The NEC 3500 drive works with every brand of media thrown
> into it without undue errors. While it even appears to burn a *few*
> certain media at higher than ated speed without problems, I stick to
> rated speed for reliability.
>
> Demanding reliability, I double-check newly-burnt DVD's after
> recording. I'm not content to simply use the "auto-verify" in Nero,
> and use Infinidyne's DVD Diagnostic. (I've used CD-R Diagnostic for
> many years, so I simply upgraded it to to the newer product, DVD
> Diagnostic).
>
> Which leads me to the problem this post is about.
>
> The problem I am having is that DVD Diagnostic frequently reports that
> there are several "...files in the directory which are not recorded in
> the track." I then check the "Details" tab and locate the filenames,
> indicated by the red "X" error icon and the "N/A" in the Blocks field.
>
> The strange thing is that the files ARE present, without any apparent
> error, and can be copies, executed, etc from the DVD, despite DVDOn a
> lighter note
> Diagnostics alert to the contrary. The files are there, but DVD
> Diagnostic apparently just cannot access them so reports them as
> listed on the directory, but missing from the actual filesystem.
>
> This behaviour is consistent in that no matter what DVD drive I use,
> the *same* files* are always reported MIA, and that the files can
> alwayse be accessed by anything other tghan DVD Diagnostic. The
> problem follows the disk so it's not the drive or computer.
>
> Has anybody else notice this quirk? I'd like to know whether the
> problem lies with DVD Diagnostic's analysis engine, or wherther there
> is a strange flaw in the actual DVD file system which triggers the
> "false" alarm? TIA for any comments.
>
> Software / OS: Nero 6.3 under Windows ME and Windows 98SE.
> DVD-RW Burner: NEC ND-3500
> DVDROM drives: Pioneer DVD-106s, Lite-On SOHC-5232K Combo
>
> -Jack-
>
> --
> Email replies to:
>
> n2hqc (at) earthlink (dot) com

On a lighter note I highly doubt your bought 2 or 3 "bad" drives in a row
(different brands no less). Without using bad language I would say your Pc
is the culprit and or/ bad discs. What brand DVD's were you using?


Ray
--
P4 3.2 Prescott
1024 MB 400DDR Dual Channel Ram
Asus P4P800 deluxe Motherboard
Win Xp Pro SP2
Nvidia Gforce 128 MB 5200
Dual WD 200 GB SE HDD
Panasonic DMC-FZ15
MS Win XP Pro SP 2
NAV 2005
Spybot/Spywarebllaster/Spywareguard
Soundblaster Live 5.1
Pioneer A06 DVD-R/RW +/-
Lite-on 16x DVD-ROM
Toshiba S509 WS Laptop

Ray

>Software / OS: Nero 6.3 under Windows ME and Windows 98SE.
>DVD-RW Burner: NEC ND-3500
>DVDROM drives: Pioneer DVD-106s, Lite-On SOHC-5232K Combo

What about the rest of your setup?

Processor? RAM? SCSI or IDE? UDMA?

Also, you mention that you have Win98SE and WinME.

Win98SE isn't that bad, but Windows ME was, perhaps, one of the worst operating
systems that Microsoft ever came out with.

If your computer is old, I would recommend an upgrade to a nice AMD AthlonXP,
an Athlon 64, or an Intel Pentium 4 with WindowsXP Professional. - Reinhart

LASERandDVDfan

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:38:51 GMT, "Ray" <>
wrote:

>
>"Jack" <> wrote in message
>news:.. .
>>
>> Having been burning CD-R's since 1997 or so, I finally moved into the
>> 21st century recently and added a DVD-RW drive into my system. It was



>
>On a lighter note I highly doubt your bought 2 or 3 "bad" drives in a row
>(different brands no less). Without using bad language I would say your Pc
>is the culprit and or/ bad discs. What brand DVD's were you using?

>Ray


Drives were tried on up to 3 different computers with similar results,
and a 4th and 5th drive are working well with same computers so I
think that rules out the computers.

I also thought it was tha media. I tried Maxell 4x media (both DVD-R
and DVD+R)) with all 3 drives. I also tried Fuji 4x DVD+R with the
secind Pioneer. The Maxell was made by Ricoh,

Here's the media codes:

Maxell 4x -R (RITEK G04)
Maxell 4x +R (RICOH R01)
Fuji 4x +R (RICOH R01)
Verbati 8x -R (MCC01RG20)
Memorex 8x -R (FUJI 03)

Lite-On
Ritek at 4x = coasters
Ritek at 2x = 30% with unacceptable errors.
(other media untested)

Pioneer #1
Ritek at 4x = coasters
Ritek at 2x = 30% with *many* soft errors.
(other media untested)

Pioneer #2
Ritek at 4x = 50% coasters, balance with many soft errors
Ritek at 2x = 30% with unacceptable errors.
Ricoh at 4x = many soft errors, no coasters.
Ricoh at 2x = good burns, no problems.

NEC 3500
Ritek at 4x = No errors
Ritek at 2x = No errors
Ricoh at 4x = No errors
Ricoh at 2x = No errors
Verbat at 8x = no errors
verbat at 8x

Jack

Ignore the first copy of this post - I wasn't finished

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:38:51 GMT, "Ray" <>
wrote:

>
>"Jack" <> wrote in message
>news:.. .
>>
>> Having been burning CD-R's since 1997 or so, I finally moved into the
>> 21st century recently and added a DVD-RW drive into my system. It was

<Big snip>

>On a lighter note I highly doubt your bought 2 or 3 "bad" drives in a row
>(different brands no less). Without using bad language I would say your Pc
>is the culprit and or/ bad discs. What brand DVD's were you using?

>Ray

Ray,

Drives were tried on up to 3 different computers with similar results,
and a 4th and 5th drive (NEC 3500) are working perfectly with the same
computers ans media so I think that rules out the computers.

I also thought it was the media. I tried Maxell 4x media (both DVD-R
and DVD+R)) with all 3 drives. I also tried Fuji 4x DVD+R with the
second Pioneer.

Here's the media codes:

Maxell 4x -R (RITEK G04)
Maxell 4x +R (RICOH R01)
Fuji 4x +R (RICOH R01)

Here's the results. Similar results when drives were tried on 2
completely different computers.

Lite-On 812s
Ritek at 4x = Produced coasters
Ritek at 2x = 30% with unacceptable errors.
(other media untested)

Pioneer 108 #1
Ritek at 4x = Produced coasters
Ritek at 2x = 30% with *many* soft errors.
(other media untested)

Pioneer 108 #2
Ritek at 4x = 50% coasters, balance with many soft errors
Ritek at 2x = 30% with unacceptable errors.
Ricoh at 4x = many soft errors, no coasters.
Ricoh at 2x = good burns, no problems.


I then switched to the NEC 3500 with the following results...

NEC 3500
Ritek at 4x = No errors
Ricoh at 4x = No errors (Will burn at 8x with no errors!)

I am current using the following with the NEC drives with no errors:
Verbatim 8x -R (MCC01RG20)
Memorex 8x -R (FUJIFILM03)

Looking at the above, I doubt it was a media problem. All the media
that did not burn in the Pioneer and liteon work perfectly with the
NEC and some even burn at twice rated witout errors.

I'm happily burning every DVD without problems on the NEC drives, even
with the remainder of the spindles of Maxell/Ritek that produced
coasters with the Pioneers and LiteOn.

That leads me to believe that I *did* have bad luck with the original
3 drives. Just for my own peace of mind, I'm saving a few disks of
each troublesome media type to try in the next burner I purchase for
further comparison.

Jack

On 16 Dec 2004 20:55:53 GMT, (LASERandDVDfan)
wrote:

>>Software / OS: Nero 6.3 under Windows ME and Windows 98SE.
>>DVD-RW Burner: NEC ND-3500
>>DVDROM drives: Pioneer DVD-106s, Lite-On SOHC-5232K Combo
>
>What about the rest of your setup?

Irrelevent. You snipped out my question which has nothing to do with
hardware. As I said I'm having *no* problems now, using NEC 3500
drives, which I discovered will even burn some supposedly 'bad' 4x
media at 8x with no errors.

I'm sorry that I confused everybody by inserting irrelevent
*anectodal* information in my original post. I will repeat, this time
asking only the question.

Can anybody answer the original question? [1]

START READING HERE:

"DVD Diagnostic" is a software utilty that analyses CD's and DVD's for
read errors and allows the user to recover files that the operating
system may nolt be able to read. It is availabe from:
http://www.infinadyne.com/cddvd_diagnostic.html

The problem I am having is that "DVD Diagnostic" frequently reports
that there are several "...files in the directory which are not
recorded in the track."

The files are shown in the "Details" tab with the problem files
indicated by a red "X" error icon and "N/A" in the Blocks field.

The strange thing is that the files ARE present, without any apparent
error, and can be copied, executed, etc from the DVD, despite DVD
Diagnostics alert to the contrary. The files are there, but DVD
Diagnostic apparently just cannot access them so reports them as
listed on the directory, but missing from the actual filesystem.

This behaviour is consistent in that no matter what DVD drive I use,
the *same* files* are always reported as MIA, and that the files can
always be accessed normally by anything other than DVD Diagnostic.

The problem follows the disk, e.g. DVD DIagnostic, installed on any
computer with any version of Windows, will report the errors on the
affected discs. The file, however, is invariably accessible normally.

Has anybody else notice this quirk?

I'd like to know whether the problem lies with DVD Diagnostic's
analysis engine, or wherther there is a strange flaw in the actual DVD
file system which triggers the "false" alarm? TIA for any
comments.


-Jack-


[1] It will be interesting to see how many people completely ignore
the question about DVD Diagnostic, discussing only "anecdotes" in
their replies. <g>

Jack