Format War: And the winner is...

This is pretty good news... from a retailer and consumer perspective
it's a no brainer.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_toshiba_dvds

New DVD Has Dual-Layered Surface

Wed Dec 8, 7:51 AM ET

Add to My Yahoo! Technology - AP

TOKYO - Two Japanese companies said Tuesday they have developed a DVD
that can play on both existing machines and the upcoming
high-definition players, raising hopes for a smooth transition as more
people dump old TV sets for better screens.

Toshiba Corp. and Memory-Tech Corp. said their disc has a dual-layered
surface that can store both types of data on the same side.

For consumers, that would eliminate the potential headache of having to
own two types of DVD players: Both will be able to read such discs,
though only the newer equipment can take advantage of the
higher-resolution technology.

The discs, which took six months to develop, will be able to hold 4.7
GB in the current format and 15 GB in high resolution, Memory-Tech
spokesman Masato Otsuka said.

Making the discs won't cost any more than the companies now spend on
producing current DVDs, Otsuka said.

The new DVDs rely on the HD-DVD format, which has the backing of the
DVD Forum, an international association of electronics makers and movie
studios. New DVD players using the format are expected to hit stores by
late 2005.

Its competitor, Blu-Ray, is backed by Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news) (news
- web sites)., its Hollywood studio and News Corp.'s Fox Entertainment
Group Inc. Blu-Ray has more storage space, but HD-DVD is expected to be
cheaper to produce because its technology closely resembles current
DVDs.

It's still unclear which will become the dominant technology.

Jordan

Just what we need a Bastard format.

John


"Jordan" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> This is pretty good news... from a retailer and consumer perspective
> it's a no brainer.
>
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_toshiba_dvds
>
> New DVD Has Dual-Layered Surface
>
> Wed Dec 8, 7:51 AM ET
>
> Add to My Yahoo! Technology - AP
>
> TOKYO - Two Japanese companies said Tuesday they have developed a DVD
> that can play on both existing machines and the upcoming
> high-definition players, raising hopes for a smooth transition as more
> people dump old TV sets for better screens.
>
> Toshiba Corp. and Memory-Tech Corp. said their disc has a dual-layered
> surface that can store both types of data on the same side.
>
> For consumers, that would eliminate the potential headache of having to
> own two types of DVD players: Both will be able to read such discs,
> though only the newer equipment can take advantage of the
> higher-resolution technology.
>
> The discs, which took six months to develop, will be able to hold 4.7
> GB in the current format and 15 GB in high resolution, Memory-Tech
> spokesman Masato Otsuka said.
>
> Making the discs won't cost any more than the companies now spend on
> producing current DVDs, Otsuka said.
>
> The new DVDs rely on the HD-DVD format, which has the backing of the
> DVD Forum, an international association of electronics makers and movie
> studios. New DVD players using the format are expected to hit stores by
> late 2005.
>
> Its competitor, Blu-Ray, is backed by Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news) (news
> - web sites)., its Hollywood studio and News Corp.'s Fox Entertainment
> Group Inc. Blu-Ray has more storage space, but HD-DVD is expected to be
> cheaper to produce because its technology closely resembles current
> DVDs.
>
> It's still unclear which will become the dominant technology.
>

John Doe

Jordan wrote:
> This is pretty good news... from a retailer and consumer perspective
> it's a no brainer.
>
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_toshiba_dvds
>
> New DVD Has Dual-Layered Surface

Maybe I am dense, but I don't see how this add much to the HD-DVD
format. People with DVD players and SD TVs are not interested in the
HD-DVD material (although it might give a better picture than DVD even
when downscaled to 480i/p). People with HD TVs will want the HD-DVD disk
and not a bastardized version with some of the material - maybe the
extras for movies? - at SD.

Why would a studio want one of these? Can't charge the DVD only
customers more for the disk. But for the first several years after the
HD-DVD or BD comes out, they presumably plan to charge a premium for the
High Def disk, regardless of format. How do they do that with a mixed
market dual layered HD-DVD?

Finally, it is a good bet that a lot of older or cheap DVD players and
PC DVD readers will barf on these dual layered DVD / HD-DVD disks.

I just don't see how this add much value to HD-DVDs in the short term.

Alan Figgatt

Alan Figgatt

"Alan Figgatt" <> wrote in message
news:NPOdnV-tMoBNfCrcRVn-...
> Jordan wrote:
>> This is pretty good news... from a retailer and consumer perspective
>> it's a no brainer.
>>
>> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_toshiba_dvds
>>
>> New DVD Has Dual-Layered Surface
>
> Maybe I am dense, but I don't see how this add much to the HD-DVD format.
> People with DVD players and SD TVs are not interested in the HD-DVD
> material (although it might give a better picture than DVD even when
> downscaled to 480i/p). People with HD TVs will want the HD-DVD disk and
> not a bastardized version with some of the material - maybe the extras for
> movies? - at SD.
>
> Why would a studio want one of these? Can't charge the DVD only customers
> more for the disk. But for the first several years after the HD-DVD or BD
> comes out, they presumably plan to charge a premium for the High Def disk,
> regardless of format. How do they do that with a mixed market dual layered
> HD-DVD?
>
> Finally, it is a good bet that a lot of older or cheap DVD players and PC
> DVD readers will barf on these dual layered DVD / HD-DVD disks.
>
> I just don't see how this add much value to HD-DVDs in the short term.
>
> Alan Figgatt

Then you are blind. Studios are already creating HD masters when going to
DVD. It will be inexpensive to produce this new format, which will
preferred since legacy DVD owners can envision upgrading equipment without
having to buy additional new discs.

luminos

It may be cheap for them but I think right now with the coming confusion
over the two HD formats for the next DVD the last thing they want to do is
add yet a third format and one that doesn't really service any useful
purpose. It is just a plain stupid idea like Circuit City and Divx.

John


"luminos" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> "Alan Figgatt" <> wrote in message
> news:NPOdnV-tMoBNfCrcRVn-...
>> Jordan wrote:
>>> This is pretty good news... from a retailer and consumer perspective
>>> it's a no brainer.
>>>
>>> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_toshiba_dvds
>>>
>>> New DVD Has Dual-Layered Surface
>>
>> Maybe I am dense, but I don't see how this add much to the HD-DVD
>> format. People with DVD players and SD TVs are not interested in the
>> HD-DVD material (although it might give a better picture than DVD even
>> when downscaled to 480i/p). People with HD TVs will want the HD-DVD disk
>> and not a bastardized version with some of the material - maybe the
>> extras for movies? - at SD.
>>
>> Why would a studio want one of these? Can't charge the DVD only
>> customers more for the disk. But for the first several years after the
>> HD-DVD or BD comes out, they presumably plan to charge a premium for the
>> High Def disk, regardless of format. How do they do that with a mixed
>> market dual layered HD-DVD?
>>
>> Finally, it is a good bet that a lot of older or cheap DVD players and
>> PC DVD readers will barf on these dual layered DVD / HD-DVD disks.
>>
>> I just don't see how this add much value to HD-DVDs in the short term.
>>
>> Alan Figgatt
>
> Then you are blind. Studios are already creating HD masters when going to
> DVD. It will be inexpensive to produce this new format, which will
> preferred since legacy DVD owners can envision upgrading equipment without
> having to buy additional new discs.
>

John Doe

luminos wrote:
> Then you are blind. Studios are already creating HD masters when going to
> DVD. It will be inexpensive to produce this new format, which will
> preferred since legacy DVD owners can envision upgrading equipment without
> having to buy additional new discs.

It does not matter whether the studios already have HD masters and
whether going to the mixed disk doesn't cost much, although there will
be costs to be recovered. The studios are already making a lot of money
from DVDs. The motivation for releasing HD disks in the short term will
be to generate more revenue and they do that by charging higher prices
for the HD disks as a premium product. In the first few years of HD
disks (whether HD-DVD or BD), the market size will be much smaller than
it is for DVD until most people have brought HD TVs. Got to make selling
the HD disks worth their while, so why sell mixed disks?

Alan Figgatt

Alan Figgatt

Alan Figgatt wrote:

> Maybe I am dense, but I don't see how this add much to the HD-DVD
> format. People with DVD players and SD TVs are not interested in the
> HD-DVD material (although it might give a better picture than DVD
even
> when downscaled to 480i/p).

I think it's safe to say that most people are stupid. Look at how long
it's taking to get them to realize that widescreen isn't chopping off
part of the picture.

This format allows one section of DVDs at the store, one DVD section
for stores to stock. People don't have to worry about buying the
"wrong" disc and stores don't have to worry about taking returns on
media bought for the wrong machine.

One disc will work regardless of the DVD player the person has at home.
It's a great idea.

Plus, the bonus features don't need to be in high def any more than
they currently support surround sound. Keep the extras in the normal
DVD format and provide high def and normal versions of the film.
This looks to be an unbeatable idea to me.

- Jordan

Jordan

Why sell mixed discs? Let's forget about Blu-Ray for a moment and just
look at HD-DVD...

Assume you're a retailer and you have a choice between stocking HD-DVD
exclusive discs, which will require their own section and numerous
returns from customers who have yet to figure out the difference
between wide-screen and pan and scan much less DVD and HD-DVD.... or
you can stock a mixed media disc that can be shelved with all the other
DVDs because it's just like a regular DVD unless you have a high def
set.

The choice is clear. A mixed disc will eliminate confusion, not
contribute to it. People that would ordinarily hold off on buying DVDs
because they don't want to have to buy it again on HD-DVD would make
the jump because once they upgrade their equipment their existing discs
will already be HD capable.

Jordan

Alan Figgatt wrote:
> The studios are already making a lot of money
> from DVDs. The motivation for releasing HD disks in the short term will
> be to generate more revenue and they do that by charging higher prices
> for the HD disks as a premium product.
Which is why I will sit out the HD format wars. They will obviously
cost more. So will the players. Sure there might be a handful of my
favorite films I might want to upgrade (probably less than 10). But I
can't see buying "Stripes" again in HD. It's a great film, but Hi-Def
is not going to make it any more or less funny. Overall I've been pretty
happy with DVDs. I do have an HDTV and Hi-Def looks amazing! On the
whole, not enough to get me to re-purchase my DVD Library over though.
Like I said, a handful, maybe.

Steve K.

In article <c0Ptd.10341$_>, "John Doe" <> wrote:
>Just what we need a Bastard format.
>
>John
>
Thats exactly what i was thinking, it eliminates all the incentive for the
manufacturers to have to build backwards compatibility into the HD-DVD players
so that they can play our standard dvd's. You still will have to keep a old
DVD player around in order to keep playing our current DVD's with this move.
This just makes retailers and manufacturers lifes easier since they dont have
to sell 2 packages to people.

>
>"Jordan" <> wrote in message
>news: roups.com...
>> This is pretty good news... from a retailer and consumer perspective
>> it's a no brainer.
>>
>>
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...0&u=/ap/200412
>08/ap_on_hi_te/japan_toshiba_dvds
>>
>> New DVD Has Dual-Layered Surface
>>
>> Wed Dec 8, 7:51 AM ET
>>
>> Add to My Yahoo! Technology - AP
>>
>> TOKYO - Two Japanese companies said Tuesday they have developed a DVD
>> that can play on both existing machines and the upcoming
>> high-definition players, raising hopes for a smooth transition as more
>> people dump old TV sets for better screens.
>>
>> Toshiba Corp. and Memory-Tech Corp. said their disc has a dual-layered
>> surface that can store both types of data on the same side.
>>
>> For consumers, that would eliminate the potential headache of having to
>> own two types of DVD players: Both will be able to read such discs,
>> though only the newer equipment can take advantage of the
>> higher-resolution technology.
>>
>> The discs, which took six months to develop, will be able to hold 4.7
>> GB in the current format and 15 GB in high resolution, Memory-Tech
>> spokesman Masato Otsuka said.
>>
>> Making the discs won't cost any more than the companies now spend on
>> producing current DVDs, Otsuka said.
>>
>> The new DVDs rely on the HD-DVD format, which has the backing of the
>> DVD Forum, an international association of electronics makers and movie
>> studios. New DVD players using the format are expected to hit stores by
>> late 2005.
>>
>> Its competitor, Blu-Ray, is backed by Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news) (news
>> - web sites)., its Hollywood studio and News Corp.'s Fox Entertainment
>> Group Inc. Blu-Ray has more storage space, but HD-DVD is expected to be
>> cheaper to produce because its technology closely resembles current
>> DVDs.
>>
>> It's still unclear which will become the dominant technology.
>>
>
>

GMAN