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Analog transfer, and Hard Drive Space..DVD drive as alternative?

 
 
Dave in WA
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
I was able to transfer 1 of my 10 8mm analog tapes to my 360 gig HD it was
about 25Gig. I'm using Pinnacle Studio 9.1 (se) that came with my Canon
Optura40. Pinnacle has a feature that will calculate the total hours that
will fit on your HD, based on transfer rate and avalable space. Per that
calculation I can store 20 hours on the HD. Problem is that would max out
the HD and I would have little room for editing. I fugure anything over 50%
would be a real preoblem with video editing. Now I could do a few at a
time, and move stuff around then burn to DVD and do a few more....problem is
they are all mixed up, not sequental. Yes the 1st few are earlier than the
last few...but after 3 you start to get overlap. (we would sometime start a
new tape, have room to spare and then use that blank tape in a pinch years
later, penny wise pound foolish, not advised)

Here aremy questions:

Can I burn each 2 hour tape to DVD (they seem to fit), in the avi un editied
form, then work from my two DVD drives to do editing of 2 tapes at a time?

or option 2 transfer from DVD to HD, edit and burn and delete the HD working
copy, continuen to add disks to the DVD drive till I have the total
sequential package?

or option 3, combine the above two and transfer 2 DVD to the HD and read
from two different DVD from my 2 drives?

You can see by my choices I'm looking to have 2-4 tapes avalable do my
edition and then burn and keep the DVD "masters" for archive.

Basically I need to get the images off the tape, in a format I can use and
not clog the HD and/or need to buy an external drive.

Also is .avi the best uncompressed format to use? Looking to get the
best/largest resolution at DVD burn.

Thanks in advance.



 
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ON2DVD
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
Dave.

Man you made me read your post a few times, and then I gave up trying to
understand exactly what your doing. sorry.

I think you need to forget about making DVD's until you have the DV tapes in
chronological order. You can do this by viewing the time and date code on
your tapes. Get yourself a few blank DV tapes and start at the beginning and
try to rearange it by dubbing from DV tape to DV tape with 2 Dv camcorders.
Thers is no easy way to do this because you did make it hard for yourself. I
think it will be easier to use pen and paper and log the sequence you want
in what order, but yes, you are going to have to watch a lot of it ot at
least scan fast through it all.
Then when you have it all in order on Dv tapes you can capture 2 x 60 min
tapes in succession and edit, then back out to a new DV tape for archival.
(don't archive DVD's) and you can reuse the other Dv tape once you have the
edited one back to that new tape. Then make a DVD and erase the whole thing
once you have completed it. That's what I would do anyway.

Regs
http://www.on2dvd.com.au





"Dave in WA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:LQW_c.2230$Q44.2187@trnddc09...
> I was able to transfer 1 of my 10 8mm analog tapes to my 360 gig HD it

was
> about 25Gig. I'm using Pinnacle Studio 9.1 (se) that came with my Canon
> Optura40. Pinnacle has a feature that will calculate the total hours that
> will fit on your HD, based on transfer rate and avalable space. Per that
> calculation I can store 20 hours on the HD. Problem is that would max out
> the HD and I would have little room for editing. I fugure anything over

50%
> would be a real preoblem with video editing. Now I could do a few at a
> time, and move stuff around then burn to DVD and do a few more....problem

is
> they are all mixed up, not sequental. Yes the 1st few are earlier than

the
> last few...but after 3 you start to get overlap. (we would sometime start

a
> new tape, have room to spare and then use that blank tape in a pinch years
> later, penny wise pound foolish, not advised)
>
> Here aremy questions:
>
> Can I burn each 2 hour tape to DVD (they seem to fit), in the avi un

editied
> form, then work from my two DVD drives to do editing of 2 tapes at a time?
>
> or option 2 transfer from DVD to HD, edit and burn and delete the HD

working
> copy, continuen to add disks to the DVD drive till I have the total
> sequential package?
>
> or option 3, combine the above two and transfer 2 DVD to the HD and read
> from two different DVD from my 2 drives?
>
> You can see by my choices I'm looking to have 2-4 tapes avalable do my
> edition and then burn and keep the DVD "masters" for archive.
>
> Basically I need to get the images off the tape, in a format I can use and
> not clog the HD and/or need to buy an external drive.
>
> Also is .avi the best uncompressed format to use? Looking to get the
> best/largest resolution at DVD burn.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>



 
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Ken Maltby
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004

"Dave in WA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:LQW_c.2230$Q44.2187@trnddc09...
>I was able to transfer 1 of my 10 8mm analog tapes to my 360 gig HD it was
> about 25Gig. I'm using Pinnacle Studio 9.1 (se) that came with my Canon
> Optura40. Pinnacle has a feature that will calculate the total hours that
> will fit on your HD, based on transfer rate and avalable space. Per that
> calculation I can store 20 hours on the HD. Problem is that would max out
> the HD and I would have little room for editing. I fugure anything over
> 50%
> would be a real preoblem with video editing. Now I could do a few at a
> time, and move stuff around then burn to DVD and do a few more....problem
> is
> they are all mixed up, not sequental. Yes the 1st few are earlier than
> the
> last few...but after 3 you start to get overlap. (we would sometime start
> a
> new tape, have room to spare and then use that blank tape in a pinch years
> later, penny wise pound foolish, not advised)
>
> Here aremy questions:
>
> Can I burn each 2 hour tape to DVD (they seem to fit), in the avi un
> editied
> form, then work from my two DVD drives to do editing of 2 tapes at a time?
>
> or option 2 transfer from DVD to HD, edit and burn and delete the HD
> working
> copy, continuen to add disks to the DVD drive till I have the total
> sequential package?
>
> or option 3, combine the above two and transfer 2 DVD to the HD and read
> from two different DVD from my 2 drives?
>
> You can see by my choices I'm looking to have 2-4 tapes avalable do my
> edition and then burn and keep the DVD "masters" for archive.
>
> Basically I need to get the images off the tape, in a format I can use and
> not clog the HD and/or need to buy an external drive.
>
> Also is .avi the best uncompressed format to use? Looking to get the
> best/largest resolution at DVD burn.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>



You might consider using "Virtual CD/DVD" drives for your
editing www.virtualcd-online.com but you are going to want
very large, very fast hard drives.

I'm not into video production so can't really commit on your
overall idea.

Luck;
Ken


 
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Dave in WA
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
I have analong.

Want to convert to DV and Burn to DVD, after editing. (with themes:
Holidays, or just my sisters kids...just my kids sports etc)

Don't want to load all on HD and cause computer to slow/crash or buy
andditional HD for it all to fit.

If I transfer from tape to DVD, no editing, just a streight transfer....

can I work off the DVD (switching as needed to build theme) to do
editing...then reburn the edited version to another DVD? (keep the original
as archive)

"ON2DVD" <mark@remove_on2dvd.com.au> wrote in message
news:tKX_c.83$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Dave.
>
> Man you made me read your post a few times, and then I gave up trying to
> understand exactly what your doing. sorry.
>
> I think you need to forget about making DVD's until you have the DV tapes

in
> chronological order. You can do this by viewing the time and date code on
> your tapes. Get yourself a few blank DV tapes and start at the beginning

and
> try to rearange it by dubbing from DV tape to DV tape with 2 Dv

camcorders.
> Thers is no easy way to do this because you did make it hard for yourself.

I
> think it will be easier to use pen and paper and log the sequence you want
> in what order, but yes, you are going to have to watch a lot of it ot at
> least scan fast through it all.
> Then when you have it all in order on Dv tapes you can capture 2 x 60 min
> tapes in succession and edit, then back out to a new DV tape for archival.
> (don't archive DVD's) and you can reuse the other Dv tape once you have

the
> edited one back to that new tape. Then make a DVD and erase the whole

thing
> once you have completed it. That's what I would do anyway.
>
> Regs
> http://www.on2dvd.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> "Dave in WA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:LQW_c.2230$Q44.2187@trnddc09...
> > I was able to transfer 1 of my 10 8mm analog tapes to my 360 gig HD it

> was
> > about 25Gig. I'm using Pinnacle Studio 9.1 (se) that came with my Canon
> > Optura40. Pinnacle has a feature that will calculate the total hours

that
> > will fit on your HD, based on transfer rate and avalable space. Per

that
> > calculation I can store 20 hours on the HD. Problem is that would max

out
> > the HD and I would have little room for editing. I fugure anything over

> 50%
> > would be a real preoblem with video editing. Now I could do a few at a
> > time, and move stuff around then burn to DVD and do a few

more....problem
> is
> > they are all mixed up, not sequental. Yes the 1st few are earlier than

> the
> > last few...but after 3 you start to get overlap. (we would sometime

start
> a
> > new tape, have room to spare and then use that blank tape in a pinch

years
> > later, penny wise pound foolish, not advised)
> >
> > Here aremy questions:
> >
> > Can I burn each 2 hour tape to DVD (they seem to fit), in the avi un

> editied
> > form, then work from my two DVD drives to do editing of 2 tapes at a

time?
> >
> > or option 2 transfer from DVD to HD, edit and burn and delete the HD

> working
> > copy, continuen to add disks to the DVD drive till I have the total
> > sequential package?
> >
> > or option 3, combine the above two and transfer 2 DVD to the HD and read
> > from two different DVD from my 2 drives?
> >
> > You can see by my choices I'm looking to have 2-4 tapes avalable do my
> > edition and then burn and keep the DVD "masters" for archive.
> >
> > Basically I need to get the images off the tape, in a format I can use

and
> > not clog the HD and/or need to buy an external drive.
> >
> > Also is .avi the best uncompressed format to use? Looking to get the
> > best/largest resolution at DVD burn.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> >

>
>



 
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ON2DVD
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
The short answer is no.

Well, there's always a way, but in this case it's not going to be advisable
because it's not quite so easy to edit Mpeg as it is Dv and the quality is
what's important so keep the masters in DV.
FWIW, Canopus Edius is a very good editor that can edit DV and Mpeg
seamlessly.


"Dave in WA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1jY_c.2797$BQ4.329@trnddc06...
> I have analong.
>
> Want to convert to DV and Burn to DVD, after editing. (with themes:
> Holidays, or just my sisters kids...just my kids sports etc)
>
> Don't want to load all on HD and cause computer to slow/crash or buy
> andditional HD for it all to fit.
>
> If I transfer from tape to DVD, no editing, just a streight transfer....
>
> can I work off the DVD (switching as needed to build theme) to do
> editing...then reburn the edited version to another DVD? (keep the

original
> as archive)
>
> "ON2DVD" <mark@remove_on2dvd.com.au> wrote in message
> news:tKX_c.83$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Dave.
> >
> > Man you made me read your post a few times, and then I gave up trying to
> > understand exactly what your doing. sorry.
> >
> > I think you need to forget about making DVD's until you have the DV

tapes
> in
> > chronological order. You can do this by viewing the time and date code

on
> > your tapes. Get yourself a few blank DV tapes and start at the beginning

> and
> > try to rearange it by dubbing from DV tape to DV tape with 2 Dv

> camcorders.
> > Thers is no easy way to do this because you did make it hard for

yourself.
> I
> > think it will be easier to use pen and paper and log the sequence you

want
> > in what order, but yes, you are going to have to watch a lot of it ot at
> > least scan fast through it all.
> > Then when you have it all in order on Dv tapes you can capture 2 x 60

min
> > tapes in succession and edit, then back out to a new DV tape for

archival.
> > (don't archive DVD's) and you can reuse the other Dv tape once you have

> the
> > edited one back to that new tape. Then make a DVD and erase the whole

> thing
> > once you have completed it. That's what I would do anyway.
> >
> > Regs
> > http://www.on2dvd.com.au
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Dave in WA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:LQW_c.2230$Q44.2187@trnddc09...
> > > I was able to transfer 1 of my 10 8mm analog tapes to my 360 gig HD

it
> > was
> > > about 25Gig. I'm using Pinnacle Studio 9.1 (se) that came with my

Canon
> > > Optura40. Pinnacle has a feature that will calculate the total hours

> that
> > > will fit on your HD, based on transfer rate and avalable space. Per

> that
> > > calculation I can store 20 hours on the HD. Problem is that would max

> out
> > > the HD and I would have little room for editing. I fugure anything

over
> > 50%
> > > would be a real preoblem with video editing. Now I could do a few at

a
> > > time, and move stuff around then burn to DVD and do a few

> more....problem
> > is
> > > they are all mixed up, not sequental. Yes the 1st few are earlier

than
> > the
> > > last few...but after 3 you start to get overlap. (we would sometime

> start
> > a
> > > new tape, have room to spare and then use that blank tape in a pinch

> years
> > > later, penny wise pound foolish, not advised)
> > >
> > > Here aremy questions:
> > >
> > > Can I burn each 2 hour tape to DVD (they seem to fit), in the avi un

> > editied
> > > form, then work from my two DVD drives to do editing of 2 tapes at a

> time?
> > >
> > > or option 2 transfer from DVD to HD, edit and burn and delete the HD

> > working
> > > copy, continuen to add disks to the DVD drive till I have the total
> > > sequential package?
> > >
> > > or option 3, combine the above two and transfer 2 DVD to the HD and

read
> > > from two different DVD from my 2 drives?
> > >
> > > You can see by my choices I'm looking to have 2-4 tapes avalable do my
> > > edition and then burn and keep the DVD "masters" for archive.
> > >
> > > Basically I need to get the images off the tape, in a format I can use

> and
> > > not clog the HD and/or need to buy an external drive.
> > >
> > > Also is .avi the best uncompressed format to use? Looking to get the
> > > best/largest resolution at DVD burn.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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Larry
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
In article <1jY_c.2797$BQ4.329@trnddc06>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
> I have analong.
>
> Want to convert to DV and Burn to DVD, after editing. (with themes:
> Holidays, or just my sisters kids...just my kids sports etc)
>
> Don't want to load all on HD and cause computer to slow/crash or buy
> andditional HD for it all to fit.
>
> If I transfer from tape to DVD, no editing, just a streight transfer....
>
> can I work off the DVD (switching as needed to build theme) to do
> editing...then reburn the edited version to another DVD? (keep the original
> as archive)
>
> "ON2DVD" <mark@remove_on2dvd.com.au> wrote in message
> news:tKX_c.83$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Dave.
> >
> > Man you made me read your post a few times, and then I gave up trying to
> > understand exactly what your doing. sorry.
> >
> > I think you need to forget about making DVD's until you have the DV tapes

> in
> > chronological order. You can do this by viewing the time and date code on
> > your tapes. Get yourself a few blank DV tapes and start at the beginning

> and
> > try to rearange it by dubbing from DV tape to DV tape with 2 Dv

> camcorders.
> > Thers is no easy way to do this because you did make it hard for yourself.

> I
> > think it will be easier to use pen and paper and log the sequence you want
> > in what order, but yes, you are going to have to watch a lot of it ot at
> > least scan fast through it all.
> > Then when you have it all in order on Dv tapes you can capture 2 x 60 min
> > tapes in succession and edit, then back out to a new DV tape for archival.
> > (don't archive DVD's) and you can reuse the other Dv tape once you have

> the
> > edited one back to that new tape. Then make a DVD and erase the whole

> thing
> > once you have completed it. That's what I would do anyway.
> >
> > Regs
> > http://www.on2dvd.com.au
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Dave in WA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:LQW_c.2230$Q44.2187@trnddc09...


The quick answer to your question is NO...

You cant do what you want without LOTS of hd space. (where are you going to
edit???) You have to put it onto the hard drive to edit it, and video eats
enormous amounts of hard drive space.

Editing video will not "slow down" your computer, but rendering it into
usable form (mpg files for dvd burning) will consume a lot of time and even
the fastest/latest computer systems dont do it in "real time". It can take
several hours to render a short video from dv to high quality mpg file.

Depending on the software you are using you may then have to render the mpg
files into vob files, then burn the disk.

I have spent as much as 8 hours getting a 20 minute video ready to burn,
with only minimum editing needed (on a 3ghz machine with fast hard
drives).Most of that time was consumed by rendering.

I have also had it take 2 hours to get the same job done, using software that
took the edited dv file and built the dvd structure to the hard drive.

Which way would you rather do it?






--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
 
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booser
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
> Editing video will not "slow down" your computer, but rendering it into
> usable form (mpg files for dvd burning) will consume a lot of time and

even
> the fastest/latest computer systems dont do it in "real time". It can take
> several hours to render a short video from dv to high quality mpg file.


That is certainly untrue. You can convert mpeg2 in real time. I do it on a
2ghz p4. The trick is not to use windows. The problem is with windows is
their is no much overhead in doing anything, that your performance drops to
a minimum. You simply have too many layers to go through in order to get
done what you have to do get done. Some Unix converters can actually do it
in real time. Mostly because the codecs are more optimized and don't have
to go through so much overhead.




 
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Rogers
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 10:19:23 GMT, "Dave in WA" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I was able to transfer 1 of my 10 8mm analog tapes to my 360 gig HD it was
>about 25Gig. I'm using Pinnacle Studio 9.1 (se) that came with my Canon
>Optura40. Pinnacle has a feature that will calculate the total hours that
>will fit on your HD, based on transfer rate and avalable space. Per that
>calculation I can store 20 hours on the HD. Problem is that would max out
>the HD and I would have little room for editing. I fugure anything over 50%
>would be a real preoblem with video editing. Now I could do a few at a
>time, and move stuff around then burn to DVD and do a few more....problem is
>they are all mixed up, not sequental. Yes the 1st few are earlier than the
>last few...but after 3 you start to get overlap. (we would sometime start a
>new tape, have room to spare and then use that blank tape in a pinch years
>later, penny wise pound foolish, not advised)
>
>Here aremy questions:
>
>Can I burn each 2 hour tape to DVD (they seem to fit), in the avi un editied
>form, then work from my two DVD drives to do editing of 2 tapes at a time?
>
>or option 2 transfer from DVD to HD, edit and burn and delete the HD working
>copy, continuen to add disks to the DVD drive till I have the total
>sequential package?
>
>or option 3, combine the above two and transfer 2 DVD to the HD and read
>from two different DVD from my 2 drives?
>
>You can see by my choices I'm looking to have 2-4 tapes avalable do my
>edition and then burn and keep the DVD "masters" for archive.
>
>Basically I need to get the images off the tape, in a format I can use and
>not clog the HD and/or need to buy an external drive.
>
>Also is .avi the best uncompressed format to use? Looking to get the
>best/largest resolution at DVD burn.
>
>Thanks in advance.


Buy a dvd recorder. Recorders connect to a tv set much like a vcr
does. These go for as little as $400 in oz or pay a bit more and get a
decent recorder with a hard drive.

Then copy to the pc and use dvd author. All very simple and not so
messy doing it on the pc.

 
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Larry
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
In article <huZ_c.7466$(E-Mail Removed). net>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> > Editing video will not "slow down" your computer, but rendering it into
> > usable form (mpg files for dvd burning) will consume a lot of time and

> even
> > the fastest/latest computer systems dont do it in "real time". It can take
> > several hours to render a short video from dv to high quality mpg file.

>
> That is certainly untrue. You can convert mpeg2 in real time. I do it on a
> 2ghz p4. The trick is not to use windows. The problem is with windows is
> their is no much overhead in doing anything, that your performance drops to
> a minimum. You simply have too many layers to go through in order to get
> done what you have to do get done. Some Unix converters can actually do it
> in real time. Mostly because the codecs are more optimized and don't have
> to go through so much overhead.
>
>
>
>
>


I dont know why the best renering packages render so slowly myself. My
system can capure live input to mp2 DVD quality real time, but all the
rendering engines I have used take MUCH longer than 2 hours to convert a 2
hour dv file into a 2 hour mp2 file.

It may be because the rendering software Im using is doing variable bit rate
optimized for maximum quality compression instead of speed, that slows stuff
down a bit. It may be presumptuous of me to asume that his video is worth the
highest possible quality.

If the OP wants crappy looking video he can use rendering engines that can go
faster than real time (even in Windows) or he can do it in high quality at
variable bit rate and take longer.

--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
 
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Sheppy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2004
Old Story - the Ati AIW Software can capture to Mpeg2 in real time, even on
a CPU lower than 1GHz, BUT as to DVD Quality.
____________
Take a video source - capture as Mpeg2 in real time, then capture as DV-Avi
in real time, you HAVE to use a a high quality capture device, eg the
Canopus AVDC would be a good start; now compare the results.

Everyone I know who's tried this can tell that the real time captures are
massively of poorer quality, and often suffer audio sync problems, the DVD
recorders/ Hardware Mpeg2 encoders come VERY close to the quality and often
it's difficult to tell - but those use dedicated hardware.

The Best realtime Mpeg2 encoders used are those used by the TV networks for
digital TV distribution. and they are relatively expensive.

> I dont know why the best renering packages render so slowly myself. My
> system can capure live input to mp2 DVD quality real time, but all the
> rendering engines I have used take MUCH longer than 2 hours to convert a 2
> hour dv file into a 2 hour mp2 file.
>
> It may be because the rendering software Im using is doing variable bit
> rate
> optimized for maximum quality compression instead of speed, that slows
> stuff
> down a bit. It may be presumptuous of me to asume that his video is worth
> the
> highest possible quality.
>
> If the OP wants crappy looking video he can use rendering engines that can
> go
> faster than real time (even in Windows) or he can do it in high quality at
> variable bit rate and take longer.



 
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