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Will Academy Ratio films be cropped to 16:9 in the future?

 
 
Grand Inquisitor
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      07-15-2004
Or will demand for older, 4:3 movies come mainly from true movie fans
who want to see something in its OAR?
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"The world cares very little about what a man or woman knows; it is what
a man or woman is able to do that counts."

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Biz
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      07-15-2004

"Grand Inquisitor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:VfmJc.5$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Or will demand for older, 4:3 movies come mainly from true movie fans
> who want to see something in its OAR?


Has it happened at all yet? I know that widescreen movies get butchered all
teh time, but I've yet to hear about an academy ratio film being cropped for
release.


 
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Michael Rogers
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      07-15-2004
Probabaly not on video but in the 60's they were putting out
"widescreen" versions of Gone With The Wind, Wizard Of Oz and others in
theaters

Biz wrote:
>
> "Grand Inquisitor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:VfmJc.5$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Or will demand for older, 4:3 movies come mainly from true movie fans
> > who want to see something in its OAR?

>
> Has it happened at all yet? I know that widescreen movies get butchered all
> teh time, but I've yet to hear about an academy ratio film being cropped for
> release.

 
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Brian The Demolition Man Little
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      07-15-2004
Biz wrote:
> Has it happened at all yet? I know that widescreen movies get
> butchered all teh time, but I've yet to hear about an academy ratio
> film being cropped for release.


While it wasn't really a major theater release, the director's cut of
Pink Floyd's "Live At Pompeii" was cropped to 16:9.

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Brian The Demolition Man Little
TNAImpact.com Columnist & Message Board Mod
Want "Fullscreen DVDs"... Buy VHS and get your
filthy hands off of my Widescreen DVD! Widescreen.org


 
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Douglas Bailey
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      07-15-2004
Brian The Demolition Man Little wrote:
> Biz wrote:


>> Has it happened at all yet? I know that widescreen movies get
>> butchered all teh time, but I've yet to hear about an academy ratio
>> film being cropped for release.

>
> While it wasn't really a major theater release, the director's cut of
> Pink Floyd's "Live At Pompeii" was cropped to 16:9.


As was the DVD of Peter Gabriel's _Secret World_ concert film. And the
first season of the _Kung Fu_ TV show. And good-sized chunks of _Babylon
5_, come to think of it (all the exterior/CGI sequences, plus the opticals
and a few FX-laden shots from the interior/live-action footage).

Unfortunately, tilt-and-scan doesn't seem to be going away.

doug

--
"And the chorus goes, and the chorus goes, b-b-b-b-b-bang..."
--Wire
 
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Brian The Demolition Man Little
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      07-15-2004
Douglas Bailey wrote:
> As was the DVD of Peter Gabriel's _Secret World_ concert film.


I would of assumed that it was filmed at 16:9 since many concerts
today are filmed in WS (ie: Roger Waters "In The Flesh").

--
Brian The Demolition Man Little
TNAImpact.com Columnist & Message Board Mod
Want "Fullscreen DVDs"... Buy VHS and get your
filthy hands off of my Widescreen DVD! Widescreen.org


 
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Smaug69
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      07-15-2004
Douglas Bailey <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<1v5iewxcvnhv8$(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Brian The Demolition Man Little wrote:
> > Biz wrote:

>
> >> Has it happened at all yet? I know that widescreen movies get
> >> butchered all teh time, but I've yet to hear about an academy ratio
> >> film being cropped for release.

> >
> > While it wasn't really a major theater release, the director's cut of
> > Pink Floyd's "Live At Pompeii" was cropped to 16:9.

>
> As was the DVD of Peter Gabriel's _Secret World_ concert film. And the
> first season of the _Kung Fu_ TV show. And good-sized chunks of _Babylon
> 5_, come to think of it (all the exterior/CGI sequences, plus the opticals
> and a few FX-laden shots from the interior/live-action footage).


Babylon 5 ran from 1994-1998. Was it filmed in 16:9 for its entire run
as IMDB suggests? If it was it seems strange considering that almost
no one had widescreen TVs at the time and HDTVs weren't available to
the public until 1998- meaning no one could watch them in their 16:9
glory. Hell, DVDs didn't even come out until the spring of '97. I
watched B5 early on and don't recall seeing a single episode shown in
letterbox. I guess that also means the DVDs are not OAR since they are
1.85:1.

Smaug69
 
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Grand Inquisitor
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      07-15-2004
Smaug69 wrote:
> Babylon 5 ran from 1994-1998. Was it filmed in 16:9 for its entire run
> as IMDB suggests? If it was it seems strange considering that almost
> no one had widescreen TVs at the time and HDTVs weren't available to
> the public until 1998- meaning no one could watch them in their 16:9
> glory. Hell, DVDs didn't even come out until the spring of '97. I
> watched B5 early on and don't recall seeing a single episode shown in
> letterbox. I guess that also means the DVDs are not OAR since they are
> 1.85:1.
>
> Smaug69


I've never seen the show (I'm a DS9 man), but the story I heard was that
it was filmed in 16:9 all along, and cropped for tv. EXCEPT for the
CG shots, which were rendered in 4:3 but cropped to 16:9 for the DVDs.

--

"The world cares very little about what a man or woman knows; it is what
a man or woman is able to do that counts."

--Booker T. Washington
 
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Douglas Bailey
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      07-15-2004
Brian The Demolition Man Little wrote:
> Douglas Bailey wrote:


>> As was the DVD of Peter Gabriel's _Secret World_ concert film.

>
> I would of assumed that it was filmed at 16:9 since many concerts
> today are filmed in WS (ie: Roger Waters "In The Flesh").


True, though _In The Flesh_ was filmed more recently, in 2000, while
_Secret World_ was shot back in 1994, before 16:9 was such a concern.

_Secret World_ was released on VHS and laserdisc in a 1.33:1 aspect ratio
and cropped down to 1.78:1 for the DVD release.

And I don't own the DVD myself, but back when it was released, the
consensus among those who'd seen both the LD and the DVD was that the
cropping harmed the composition and was probably not intended by the
original filmmakers.

doug

--
"I am mesmerised by my own beat like a heartbeat..."
--Wire
 
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Douglas Bailey
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      07-15-2004
Smaug69 wrote:
> Douglas Bailey wrote:
>> ...good-sized chunks of _Babylon 5_ [were cropped], come to think of it
>> (all the exterior/CGI sequences, plus the opticals and a few FX-laden
>> shots from the interior/live-action footage).

>
> Babylon 5 ran from 1994-1998. Was it filmed in 16:9 for its entire run as
> IMDB suggests?... I watched B5 early on and don't recall seeing a single
> episode shown in letterbox.


According to Henrik Herranen's exhaustive article at
<http://www.cs.tut.fi/~leopold/Babylon5/DVD/DVDTransfer.html>, the
live-action sequences were filmed in Super 35. A 4:3 extraction was made
for the original TV broadcasts and the laserdisc releases, and a 16:9
extraction made for the DVDs and the Sci-Fi channel re-runs.

(The show was supposedly originally broadcast in 16:9 in some European
markets, though I can't confirm this.)

But in any event, that article also makes it clear that the CGI sequences
and the opticals/composites were rendered purely as 4:3 NTSC images, so the
16:9 versions on the DVDs are blown up to match the width of the widescreen
framing and then cropped top/bottom. It's very clear when this scaling
happens on an optical/composite shot: there's a noticeable drop in video
quality compared to the other live-action footage.


> I guess that also means the DVDs are not OAR since they are 1.85:1.


Correct, although the live-action sequences are at least reframed in a way
that the original filmmakers planned for and approved of. The CGI and
optical/composite sequences, on the other hand... Henrik's article claims
that these shots "are supposedly generated in such a way that allows for
matting the top and bottom of images" for widescreen, but it's hard to know
for certain.

doug

--
"You know some people need nothing else..."
--Shriekback
 
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