Any examples of how open matte ruins composition?

Joshua Zyber <> wrote:
> "Jay G" <> wrote...
>>> Firefly ran in 16:9 on Fox's digital channel. The standard analog
>>> channel varied between whether episodes would be letterboxed or 4:3
>>> (some one way, some the other).
>>
>> FOX has a policy against letterbox on their standard channel.
>> The only episode that aired letterboxed on the standard
>> channel was the last Firefly episode aired, the pilot.
>
> The first broadcast episode, "The Train Job" was also aired in
> letterbox.

Thank you to Jay and yourself for the correction. My memory
of the original airing isn't that clear, and the commentary track
for that episode has Joss and Tim commenting that at this point
they had learned that FOX had decided that only the pilot
would be aired letterboxed on standard TV. That comment
is a bit confusing in the light that The Train Job also aired WS.

> Fox doesn't have a "policy against letterbox"; they just
> have a bias against it. The X-Files episode "Triangle" was also
> broadcast in letterbox, and in some rare instances they have aired
> random movies in widescreen (usually a partial 1.78:1 ratio
> regardless of OAR).

I'm not sure if Joss or Tim explicitly say the word "policy,"
but their discussion of FOX's stance on letterboxing was
a bit stronger than just bias. Joss states in his commentary
for the pilot that he deliberately shot scenes showcasing
the WS format first so that he could try and convince them
of airing the show WS. From all accounts, it sounded like
an uphill battle. So perhaps "extremely strong bias," or
"unwritten rule" might describe their position on WS better.

-Jay

Jay G

In article <>, "Jay G" <>
wrote:

> And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
> released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
> broadcast in 4:3.

I can't fathom anyone thinking that considering Angel has been broadcast
in 16:9 since it's second season.

> -Jay
--
BL

Black Locust

"Black Locust" <> wrote in message
news:bl2112-...
> > And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
> > released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
> > broadcast in 4:3.
>
> I can't fathom anyone thinking that considering Angel has been
broadcast
> in 16:9 since it's second season.

Third season.

Joshua Zyber

Jay G wrote:
> ThePunisher <> wrote:
> > Jay G wrote:
> > >
> > > Not only is 4:3 the OAR, it's also Joss Whedon's preferred AR
> > > for the show.
> >
> > Big deal he didn't direct every episode.
>
> Joss is the creative voice behind the series. He has stated
> that he is speaking on behalf of all the directors when he
> has stated his preference in the past.
>
> From http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=414 :
>
> "The BUFFY's I (and others) shot were framed for
> traditional TVs."
>
> -Jay

Tell you what , watch the same episode of Buffy in 16:9 and then 4:3 then
come back and tell me which ratio it was composed for.

--
ThePunisher

Chap with the wings there, put 5 rounds in him.

ThePunisher

Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
> In article <%lfOb.5697$>,
> ThePunisher <> wrote:
> > Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
> > > In article <g7%Nb.5198$>,
> > > ThePunisher <> wrote:
> > > > Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
> > > > > ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2
> > > > > edition.
> > > >
> > > > Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3
> > > > center crop of the 16:9 frame.
> > >
> > > Exactly. 4:3 is the OAR, and 16:9 opens the side mattes.
> >
> > No, the 4:3 version is the 'pan&scan' of the 16:9 one.
>
> No. The show was composed for 4:3 and "protected" for 16:9, as is
> made clear in the commentary track and Joss Whedon's other comments.
> Pan 'n scan is what is done to an original composition to make it
> fill a screen of a different aspect ratio.
>
> Just as opening the top and bottom of a 1.85:1 movie to fit a 4:3
> screen is opening the matte, opening the sides of a 4:3 movie to fit
> a 16:9 screen is opening the matte. I see no difference between
> these concepts, and I don't see why you do.

How many episodes of Buffy have you watched in 16:9?

--
ThePunisher

Chap with the wings there, put 5 rounds in him.

ThePunisher

ThePunisher wrote on [Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:48:31 -0000]:
> Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> In article <%lfOb.5697$>,
>> ThePunisher <> wrote:
>> > Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> > > In article <g7%Nb.5198$>,
>> > > ThePunisher <> wrote:
>> > > > Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> > > > > ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2
>> > > > > edition.
>> > > >
>> > > > Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3
>> > > > center crop of the 16:9 frame.
>> > >
>> > > Exactly. 4:3 is the OAR, and 16:9 opens the side mattes.
>> >
>> > No, the 4:3 version is the 'pan&scan' of the 16:9 one.
>>
>> No. The show was composed for 4:3 and "protected" for 16:9, as is
>> made clear in the commentary track and Joss Whedon's other comments.
>> Pan 'n scan is what is done to an original composition to make it
>> fill a screen of a different aspect ratio.
>>
>> Just as opening the top and bottom of a 1.85:1 movie to fit a 4:3
>> screen is opening the matte, opening the sides of a 4:3 movie to fit
>> a 16:9 screen is opening the matte. I see no difference between
>> these concepts, and I don't see why you do.
>
> How many episodes of Buffy have you watched in 16:9?
>

And one was composed for it.

Justin

ThePunisher <> wrote:
> Jay G wrote:
>> From http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=414 :
>>
>> "The BUFFY's I (and others) shot were framed for
>> traditional TVs."
>
> Tell you what , watch the same episode of Buffy in 16:9 and then 4:3
> then come back and tell me which ratio it was composed for.

You got a copy you can loan me? Saying the 16:9 versions
look better to you is one thing, saying they were composed
that way is another. Remember, fans of 4:3 open-matte
think that it looks better than the WS version of a film.

Remember, aspect ratio isn't about more image, it's about
the correct image, the image that you were intended to see.

-Jay

Jay G

Jay G wrote:
> ThePunisher <> wrote:
> > Jay G wrote:
> > > From http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=414 :
> > >
> > > "The BUFFY's I (and others) shot were framed for
> > > traditional TVs."
> >
> > Tell you what , watch the same episode of Buffy in 16:9 and then 4:3
> > then come back and tell me which ratio it was composed for.
>
> You got a copy you can loan me? Saying the 16:9 versions
> look better to you is one thing, saying they were composed
> that way is another. Remember, fans of 4:3 open-matte
> think that it looks better than the WS version of a film.
>
> Remember, aspect ratio isn't about more image, it's about
> the correct image, the image that you were intended to see.
>
> -Jay

Excatly, you really have to watch the season 4 onwards episodes to clearly
see (no matter what Whedon says) that they were composed for 16:9 hell, even
the effects shot are 16:9

--
ThePunisher

Chap with the wings there, put 5 rounds in him.

ThePunisher

ThePunisher, says...
> > Not only is 4:3 the OAR, it's also Joss Whedon's preferred AR
> > for the show.
>
> Big deal he didn't direct every episode.

The implication you seem to be making is that the directors have some
input as to the aspect ratio in television. Just an FYI here, but in
television production, the director has almost nothing to do with
determining aspect ratios. Directors in television do not have anything
like the creative control that film directors enjoy. Major creative
choices are made by the executive producers, head writers, and the
network. Directors are hired on an episode-by-episode basis, and are
generally just in charge of blocking the actors. Any other creative
choices they make can be vetoed at any point by the producers.

Mark Spatny

ThePunisher <> wrote:
> Jay G wrote:
>> Saying the 16:9 versions
>> look better to you is one thing, saying they were composed
>> that way is another. Remember, fans of 4:3 open-matte
>> think that it looks better than the WS version of a film.
>>
>> Remember, aspect ratio isn't about more image, it's about
>> the correct image, the image that you were intended to see.
>
> Excatly, you really have to watch the season 4 onwards episodes to
> clearly see (no matter what Whedon says) that they were composed for
> 16:9 hell, even the effects shot are 16:9

Effects shots are more and more often being rendered for
image area outside the intended frame. LOTR had all
of its effects and digital grading rendered in a 1.78:1
aspect ratio, which was matted off for the 2.35:1 image.
Are you saying the intended aspect ratio for LOTR is
not 2.35:1?

You're making quite a leap when you go from "this
is what looks better to me" to "this is the intended
aspect ratio."

-Jay

Jay G