Any examples of how open matte ruins composition?

"Jay G" <> wrote in message
news:...
> And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
> released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
> broadcast in 4:3.

Firefly ran in 16:9 on Fox's digital channel. The standard analog
channel varied between whether episodes would be letterboxed or 4:3
(some one way, some the other).

Joshua Zyber

Joshua Zyber <> wrote:
> "Jay G" <> wrote ...
>> And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
>> released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
>> broadcast in 4:3.
>
> Firefly ran in 16:9 on Fox's digital channel. The standard analog
> channel varied between whether episodes would be letterboxed or 4:3
> (some one way, some the other).

FOX has a policy against letterbox on their standard channel.
The only episode that aired letterboxed on the standard
channel was the last Firefly episode aired, the pilot.

-Jay

Jay G

Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
> In article <g7%Nb.5198$>,
> ThePunisher <> wrote:
> > Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
> > > ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2
> > > edition.
> >
> > Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center
> > crop of the 16:9 frame.
>
> Exactly. 4:3 is the OAR, and 16:9 opens the side mattes.

No, the 4:3 version is the 'pan&scan' of the 16:9 one.

--
ThePunisher

Chap with the wings there, put 5 rounds in him.

ThePunisher

Jay G wrote:
> Aaron P Brezenski <> wrote:
> > ThePunisher <> wrote:
> > > Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
> > > > ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2
> > > > edition.
> > >
> > > Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center
> > > crop of the 16:9 frame.
> >
> > Exactly. 4:3 is the OAR, and 16:9 opens the side mattes.
>
> Not only is 4:3 the OAR, it's also Joss Whedon's preferred AR
> for the show.

Big deal he didn't direct every episode. If he was so adamant that Buffy be
4:3 then no 16:9 versions would exist.

> And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
> released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
> broadcast in 4:3.
>
> -Jay

Well he said Angel was widescreen but try and find season one in 16:9.

--
ThePunisher

Chap with the wings there, put 5 rounds in him.

ThePunisher

In article <%lfOb.5697$>,
ThePunisher <> wrote:
>Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> In article <g7%Nb.5198$>,
>> ThePunisher <> wrote:
>> > Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> > > ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2
>> > > edition.
>> >
>> > Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center
>> > crop of the 16:9 frame.
>>
>> Exactly. 4:3 is the OAR, and 16:9 opens the side mattes.
>
>No, the 4:3 version is the 'pan&scan' of the 16:9 one.

No. The show was composed for 4:3 and "protected" for 16:9, as is
made clear in the commentary track and Joss Whedon's other comments.
Pan 'n scan is what is done to an original composition to make it
fill a screen of a different aspect ratio.

Just as opening the top and bottom of a 1.85:1 movie to fit a 4:3 screen
is opening the matte, opening the sides of a 4:3 movie to fit a 16:9
screen is opening the matte. I see no difference between these concepts,
and I don't see why you do.




--
Aaron Brezenski
Not speaking for my employer in any way.

Aaron P Brezenski

ThePunisher <> wrote:
> Jay G wrote:
>>
>> Not only is 4:3 the OAR, it's also Joss Whedon's preferred AR
>> for the show.
>
> Big deal he didn't direct every episode.

Joss is the creative voice behind the series. He has stated
that he is speaking on behalf of all the directors when he
has stated his preference in the past.

From http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=414 :

"The BUFFY's I (and others) shot were framed for
traditional TVs."

> If he was so adamant that
> Buffy be 4:3 then no 16:9 versions would exist.

Flip that argument on it's head and apply it to others:
"If a director was so adamant that his work be
widescreen, then no 4:3 versions would exist."

I hope you see the error in it now.

>> And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
>> released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
>> broadcast in 4:3.
>
> Well he said Angel was widescreen but try and find season one in 16:9.

From http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=1374 :

"'Angel' is a widescreen show, starting with the second season,"
Whedon said. "So that is presented widescreen."

-Jay

Jay G

Jay G <> wrote:
: ThePunisher <> wrote:

[snip]

: >> And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
: >> released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
: >> broadcast in 4:3.
: >
: > Well he said Angel was widescreen but try and find season one in 16:9.
:
: From http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=1374 :
:
: "'Angel' is a widescreen show, starting with the second season,"
: Whedon said. "So that is presented widescreen."

Tim Minear has clarified this comment: what Joss meant to say was
that the _third_ season is when Angel went widescreen, not the
second. This is when the WB started broadcasting it in 16:9 letterbox.
Tim also said that unlike on Buffy, Fox never asked Mutant Enemy about
their opinion on 16:9 DVDs; they just went ahead and released the
second season in 16:9 over their heads! He has also said that although
some shots work well enough in 16:9 (by pure chance), others make
"our work look quite shoddy" and that the Angel 16:9 DVDs of season 2
is a good example of "why releasing something that was intended to be
viewed in full frame should NOT be issued in 16x9."


Jag

jagu@r.no

"Jay G" <> wrote:

> Joshua Zyber <> wrote:
>> "Jay G" <> wrote ...
>>> And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
>>> released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
>>> broadcast in 4:3.

He also very deliberately shot "Once More, with Feeling" in
widescreen.

>> Firefly ran in 16:9 on Fox's digital channel. The standard
>> analog channel varied between whether episodes would be
>> letterboxed or 4:3 (some one way, some the other).
>
> FOX has a policy against letterbox on their standard channel.
> The only episode that aired letterboxed on the standard
> channel was the last Firefly episode aired, the pilot.

Actually, no, that wasn't the only one. The first aired episode
("The Train Job") was also letterboxed on the standard channel.
I remember being disappointed when the show "switched back" to
4:3 the following week.

-- jayembee

jayembee

"Jay G" <> wrote in message
news:...
> > Firefly ran in 16:9 on Fox's digital channel. The standard analog
> > channel varied between whether episodes would be letterboxed or 4:3
> > (some one way, some the other).
>
> FOX has a policy against letterbox on their standard channel.
> The only episode that aired letterboxed on the standard
> channel was the last Firefly episode aired, the pilot.

The first broadcast episode, "The Train Job" was also aired in
letterbox. Fox doesn't have a "policy against letterbox"; they just have
a bias against it. The X-Files episode "Triangle" was also broadcast in
letterbox, and in some rare instances they have aired random movies in
widescreen (usually a partial 1.78:1 ratio regardless of OAR).

Joshua Zyber

ThePunisher wrote on [Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:42:04 -0000]:
> Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> In article <g7%Nb.5198$>,
>> ThePunisher <> wrote:
>> > Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> > > ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2
>> > > edition.
>> >
>> > Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center
>> > crop of the 16:9 frame.
>>
>> Exactly. 4:3 is the OAR, and 16:9 opens the side mattes.
>
> No, the 4:3 version is the 'pan&scan' of the 16:9 one.

Nope. The 16:9 version if the open matte of the 4:3

Justin