Any examples of how open matte ruins composition?

There are lots of good and informative pages (like www.widescreen.org)
that give both text and visual explanations of different aspect ratios
and what happens to them when shown pan&scan. Just about anyone (i'm
leaving leeway for the fanatics of course) could see how much damage
pan&scan did to the OAR. Life was good.

With a large number of Super 35 films having an open matte
presentation on the "Fullscreen" DVDs, this has made it much more
confusing for people who truly and innocently don't understand the
difference. The OAR/widescreen advocate tells them that "Fullscreen"
cuts off the sides of the movie and someone else will rant that
widescreen cuts off the top/bottom. It's pointed out that open matte
ruins the composition but by now the flaming has started and the
original poster is hopelessly lost.

What we need is some nice examples of how the open matte picture shows
useless material at the top/bottom of the frame. Even better if it can
clearly be seen to ruin a nice shot. I'm not talking about things
like in Pee Wee's Big adventure or A Fish Called Wanda. Or even Boom
Mics. I mean where the composition is off like we keep trying to tell
people. I know it's sometimes hard to show this in still photos but
i'm sure there have to be a few good examples.

In the past i've seen two really good examples. In one (2.35:1 film)
the camera zooms in closeup on someone's eyes so that they're centered
nicely in the frame. The open matte presentation showed some forehead
and just enough nose to look absolutely rediculous. Another was an
outdoor scene where people were on a boat. The open matte frame only
had more of a view above the actors so the frame ended up being 2/3
blue sky for no reason.

A good webpage with some examples like these along side an explanation
would be great. Combine that with a link to widescreen.org and it'll
clear up everything.

Anything like that exist?

Kevin

.... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2 edition.



--
Aaron Brezenski
Not speaking for my employer in any way.

Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
> ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2 edition.

Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center crop of
the 16:9 frame.

--
ThePunisher

Chap with the wings there, put 5 rounds in him.

ThePunisher wrote on [Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:14:04 -0000]:
> Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2 edition.
>
> Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center crop of
> the 16:9 frame.

The 16:9 version is the open matte version.

In article <g7%Nb.5198$>, "ThePunisher" <> wrote:
>Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2 edition.
>
>Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center crop of
>the 16:9 frame.
>
Also look at the open matt version of The Shining, you can see the helicopters
reflection that filmed the opening mountain sequences.

"Kevin" <> wrote in message
news: om...
> In the past i've seen two really good examples. In one (2.35:1 film)
> the camera zooms in closeup on someone's eyes so that they're centered
> nicely in the frame. The open matte presentation showed some forehead
> and just enough nose to look absolutely rediculous. Another was an
> outdoor scene where people were on a boat. The open matte frame only
> had more of a view above the actors so the frame ended up being 2/3
> blue sky for no reason.

One of my favorite examples is the ice skating sequence at 1hr 43
minutes into 'Ronin'. In widescreen, the skater glides delicately across
the rink from one side of the frame to the other, but in 4:3 her
position in the frame is dwarfed by the crowds in the stands above her
and too much "foot-room" on the ice below her. The widescreen edition is
much more artfully composed.

Kevin <> wrote:
> What we need is some nice examples of how the open matte picture shows
> useless material at the top/bottom of the frame. Even better if it can
> clearly be seen to ruin a nice shot. I'm not talking about things
> like in Pee Wee's Big adventure or A Fish Called Wanda. Or even Boom
> Mics. I mean where the composition is off like we keep trying to tell
> people. I know it's sometimes hard to show this in still photos but
> i'm sure there have to be a few good examples.

This page goes into detail on the 4:3 recomposition of Harry Potter 2:
http://plum.cream.org/HP/cos/dvd.htm

The third example on this page shows dead space well:
http://home1.gte.net/res0mrb7/widescreen/benefits.html

Here are some good side-by-side comparisons of
"The Usual Suspects":
http://home1.gte.net/res0mrb7/widesc...cts/index.html

The examples here aren't too extreme, but they do show
that some "open-matte" transfers still crop on the sides:
http://hkfanatic.com/widescreen/matte/matte.php

-Jay

In article <g7%Nb.5198$>,
ThePunisher <> wrote:
>Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>> ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2 edition.
>
>Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center crop of
>the 16:9 frame.

Exactly. 4:3 is the OAR, and 16:9 opens the side mattes.


--
Aaron Brezenski
Not speaking for my employer in any way.

Aaron P Brezenski <> wrote:
> ThePunisher <> wrote:
>> Aaron P Brezenski wrote:
>>> ... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 5, "The Body", Region 2
>>> edition.
>>
>> Is 16:9, there is no open matt version, the USA one is 4:3 center
>> crop of the 16:9 frame.
>
> Exactly. 4:3 is the OAR, and 16:9 opens the side mattes.

Not only is 4:3 the OAR, it's also Joss Whedon's preferred AR
for the show.

And lest people think Joss Whedon is adverse to WS, he
released FIREFLY on DVD in 16:9, despite it being originally
broadcast in 4:3.

-Jay

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:18:32 GMT, Jay G wrote in alt.video.dvd:

Sorry, didn't see the original post, and haven't been following the
thread, and I can't be bothered to check at this late hour; but here's a
good example of how it "ruins" composition:

http://plum.cream.org/HP/dvd.htm
http://plum.cream.org/HP/cos/dvd.htm

Check the later shots on the first, and most of the shots on the second.

--
- Cods


(un ROT-13 to e-mail)