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http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/29/te...gy/29disk.html
December 29, 2003 Heavyweights Are Choosing Sides in Battle Over Next DVD Format By KEN BELSON OKYO, Dec. 28 - When Hisashi Yamada pulls back his bow, he thinks of only one thing: Hitting the bull's-eye 92 feet away. "When I concentrate on the target," said Mr. Yamada, a champion archer who demonstrates his skill dressed in the traditional blue-and-white hakama, "I forget about everything else." In his regular job, Mr. Yamada, a 60-year-old electrical engineer, is putting that same single-minded focus to work for the Toshiba Corporation, which is battling like a Japanese samurai warrior of old in a fight to the finish over whose format will be used in the next generation of DVD's. The discs, which have been under development for several years, will hold four to five times more digital video and audio data than those now on the market. They are needed because broadcasters and movie studios are planning to take advantage of the spread of high-definition television screens to produce more digital programming with multitrack sound and much better resolution. The new discs and their players will not be widely available until at least 2005, but already the world's largest electronics, computer and entertainment companies are embroiled in a multibillion-dollar fight over whose technology will become an industry standard. The arguments are in many ways reminiscent of the Betamax-VHS showdown in the 1970's and the clashes over digital audiotape, compact discs and the original digital videodiscs released in 1997. As in those battles, technology is just the starting point for debates filled with emotion and industry politics. Beyond the technical details like tracking speed and tilt is a serious tussle over how to divide - and protect - the billions of dollars in royalties from the licensing of this technology and the content sold on the discs. Also at stake is an effort by electronics makers to prevent emerging Chinese rivals and well-established Silicon Valley computer makers from making significant inroads into the home entertainment business. "This is a very intense conflict over intellectual property," said Warren N. Lieberfarb, a driving force behind the development of the original DVD format. It has the added overlay, he said, "of the Japanese, Korean and European consumer electronics industries fearing China's aggressively emerging consumer electronics industry as well as the PC industry." At the technological level, the combatants are divided roughly into two camps. Under Mr. Yamada's leadership, NEC and Toshiba have formed a group that has developed the HD (high definition) DVD, a disc that is 0.6 millimeter thick and made with machinery similar to that used for today's DVD's. On the other side is the 10-company Blu-ray Group, led by Sony and Matsushita, whose best-known brands are Panasonic and JVC. That group has developed a disc only 0.1 millimeter thick that can hold more data but needs additional investment to be produced. Information on the discs can be overwritten after it is recorded, something that is not possible with the HD DVD's now. At 12 centimeters in diameter, both discs are similar to today's offerings, though Sony's discs are protected from fingerprints, dust and scratches by square plastic cartridges when not in use. The HD DVD group has developed a single lens that emits red and blue rays to read both current and next-generation discs. The Blu-ray machines require two separate lenses. While the discs are still at least a year away from mass production, both sides are expected to be out in full body armor trying to win new allies at the big Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, Jan. 8 through 11, where they are planning to show prototypes of their devices. There are many battles left to fight, though, before these new DVD's hit the shelves, and it is entirely possible that the camps will never reach a consensus, forcing consumers, retailers, movie studios and others to adapt, at least initially, to two competing standards. In the Betamax-VHS war, one standard ultimately triumphed. That is an important reason the two chief antagonists in that fight - Sony, the loser, and Matsushita, the winner - are now allies. In the wake of other format conflicts, including the one over the first generation of DVD's, multiple standards co-exist, with the differences papered over by machines that can play several formats. But in other cases, including the development of higher-quality music discs, the disputes seem to have scared away consumers and retailers caught in the middle. The ideal, everyone involved insists, is for one format to emerge as the winner so costs can be kept to a minimum. But as Mr. Yamada knows, that is about the only thing on which people can agree. In addition to his role at Toshiba, he is chairman of the powerful Technical Coordination Group at the DVD Forum, a six-year-old group of more than 200 companies that is trying to decide on one format. In November, the HD DVD camp's specifications were endorsed by the forum's steering committee. The victory was significant, but tellingly contentious. The format was not approved until the third ballot, and only after voting rules were changed and several companies abstained. The Blu-ray Group did not submit specifications for a read-only disc, which Hollywood is eager to have for movie sales and rentals. Mr. Yamada called the negotiations "very delicate," and said the Blu-ray Group was trying to prevent the HD DVD from becoming the industry standard because it does not yet have a solid alternative. "They don't want to approve HD DVD in the forum, but since they only have rewriteable discs, they can't say theirs is better than ours," said Mr. Yamada, who argues that his goal is to produce an open format that all companies can share. The Blu-ray Group, he said, "wants to control the technological standards themselves." The HD DVD group may get an additional lift in February, when the Walt Disney Company, Microsoft and Sanyo are expected to take over leadership of the DVD Forum. The three companies have not sided with either format, but are seen by some as friendlier to the Toshiba-NEC group. Though the two camps produce discs that store similar amounts of data, manufacturers say that the HD DVD discs cost only 15 percent more to produce than current discs, a fraction of what they say the Blu-ray discs will cost. Stamping out prerecorded discs cheaply is the key to wooing Hollywood studios, which want to keep their retail prices low in a business that now brings in more money than movies in first-run theaters. Retailers also want one standard so they do not have to stock two versions of every movie. "What Hollywood cares about is cost," said Kanji Katsuura, the chief technical officer at Memory-Tech, the second-largest maker of DVD's in Japan. "They basically want the same price as discs now." Sony and its allies dismiss claims that their technology is too expensive, saying that the cost per disc will naturally fall as production takes off. They also say their rewriteable discs are what consumers really want because they can be used not only to play movies but also to record high-definition digital television programming, now available selectively in the United States and offered on a limited basis in Japan starting this month. "What we are striving for with Blu-ray is the next stage in the evolution of this technology," said Yukinori Kawauchi, a manager in the planning and control division at Sony's broadband network unit. Such a leap happens only "every 10 or 20 years, like the transition from CD's to DVD's," he said. In April, Sony started selling Blu-ray DVD recorders in Japan, where they cost 378,000 yen, or $3,500, and take discs that sell for 3,000 yen, or about $27. Sony does not release sales figures, but industry sources said only a few hundred players had been sold so far. Mr. Yamada said Toshiba wanted to introduce DVD recorders in 2005 that cost less than $2,000 and players priced below $1,000. They would be much cheaper than machines using the competing format, but would still be aimed mostly at the early adopters, who are the first to try new technologies. As in the past, the new formats are not expected to take off in the mass market until the price falls sharply. "The battle really depends on the price level," said Yuki Sugi, a consumer electronics analyst at Deutsche Securities in Tokyo. "When the price falls to 120,000 yen ($1,080), it will catch on. This is a kind of magic number for high-priced electronics." History indicates that the magic number might be reached earlier than anticipated. Sales of DVD discs and players gathered steam when production began in China, pushing prices lower. But some manufacturers worry that their technology could be used by Chinese rivals, legally or otherwise. This fear, some critics say, is why the Blu-ray group has kept a tight lid on its technology instead of sharing more of its specifications with other members of the DVD Forum. Striking back, nine Chinese companies have said they plan to develop their own DVD formats. Copyright infringement is another worry. After the rapid spread of illegally copied DVDs, Hollywood is pushing both technical groups to come up with new security measures to protect their movies. Neither group has developed a prototype that satisfies the movie industry - a major impediment to a commercial launch. "We are very much focused on both picture quality and content protection," said Peter Murphy, senior executive vice president and chief strategic officer at the Walt Disney Company, which has about one-fourth of the home video market. "The consumer electronics manufacturers can come up with the technical standards for the next-generation discs, but unless we also agree on the content protection standards, many of the studios may choose to wait before releasing content in the new format." Also lurking nearby are giants like Microsoft, I.B.M. and Intel, which are eager to work their way into family rooms by promoting their technology for use in set-top boxes, DVD players and digital video recorders with hard disk drives. American computer makers, adept at producing hardware on thin margins by building sophisticated global supply chains, could also develop competing products, turning television into just another function of the home computer. "Younger generations are completely happy working with a mouse, which is better than a 1,000-button remote," said Tom Adams, president of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif. "Microsoft can dominate in ways that Sony or Toshiba can't." Some analysts contend that high-speed Internet connections will ultimately make discs less relevant as consumers download more music and movies, though this is a more distant threat. For now, discs remain the medium of choice, and the decision on a format will ultimately be up to Hollywood. Some movie executives are leaning toward the HD DVD format because it is seen as the cheaper of the two. But others are still weighing the technological and financial arguments from both groups. Many in the industry say the worst case would be an endless fight, forcing the public to wrestle with two formats. If that happens, said Mr. Lieberfarb, the developer of the original DVD format, "everyone is a loser, particularly Hollywood studios, the retailer community and, most importantly, the consumer." robert gray |
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#2 |
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robert gray <> wrote in message news:<zxXHb.2776$> ...
> Mr. Yamada said Toshiba wanted to introduce DVD recorders in 2005 that > cost less than $2,000 and players priced below $1,000. They would be > much cheaper than machines using the competing format Domo arigato, Mr. Yamada. -Eric Eric R. |
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> "We are very much focused on both picture quality and content
> protection," said Peter Murphy, senior executive vice president and > chief strategic officer at the Walt Disney Company, which has about > one-fourth of the home video market. 'one-fourth' ? GW |
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#4 |
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"GW" <> wrote in message
news:go5Ib.12848$... > > "We are very much focused on both picture quality and content > > protection," said Peter Murphy, senior executive vice president and > > chief strategic officer at the Walt Disney Company, which has about > > one-fourth of the home video market. > > 'one-fourth' ? There is a massive market for children's movies. At Best Buy, they have a fairly large section that is only Disney movies. Mark Jones |
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#5 |
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"GW" <> wrote in message news:go5Ib.12848$... > > "We are very much focused on both picture quality and content > > protection," said Peter Murphy, senior executive vice president and > > chief strategic officer at the Walt Disney Company, which has about > > one-fourth of the home video market. > > 'one-fourth' ? > > > He is ONLY interested in content protection. Disney needs a very new corporate mindset! luminos |
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#6 |
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 03:17:53 GMT, "Mark Jones"
<> wrote, in part: >"GW" <> wrote in message >news:go5Ib.12848$... >> > "We are very much focused on both picture quality and content >> > protection," said Peter Murphy, senior executive vice president and >> > chief strategic officer at the Walt Disney Company, which has about >> > one-fourth of the home video market. >> 'one-fourth' ? >There is a massive market for children's movies. At Best Buy, >they have a fairly large section that is only Disney movies. And, as well, Disney owns a company that has a small slice of the rest of the home video market as well; I believe it's Touchstone. John Savard http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html John Savard |
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#7 |
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In article <zxXHb.2776$>,
robert gray <> wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/29/te...gy/29disk.html > > December 29, 2003 > Heavyweights Are Choosing Sides in Battle Over Next DVD Format > By KEN BELSON > > OKYO, Dec. 28 - When Hisashi Yamada pulls back his bow, he thinks of > only one thing: Hitting the bull's-eye 92 feet away. > > "When I concentrate on the target," said Mr. Yamada, a champion archer > who demonstrates his skill dressed in the traditional blue-and-white > hakama, "I forget about everything else." > > In his regular job, Mr. Yamada, a 60-year-old electrical engineer, is > putting that same single-minded focus to work for the Toshiba > Corporation, which is battling like a Japanese samurai warrior of old in > a fight to the finish over whose format will be used in the next > generation of DVD's. > > The discs, which have been under development for several years, will > hold four to five times more digital video and audio data than those now > on the market. They are needed because broadcasters and movie studios > are planning to take advantage of the spread of high-definition > television screens to produce more digital programming with multitrack > sound and much better resolution. > > The new discs and their players will not be widely available until at > least 2005, but already the world's largest electronics, computer and > entertainment companies are embroiled in a multibillion-dollar fight > over whose technology will become an industry standard. > > The arguments are in many ways reminiscent of the Betamax-VHS showdown > in the 1970's and the clashes over digital audiotape, compact discs and > the original digital videodiscs released in 1997. As in those battles, > technology is just the starting point for debates filled with emotion > and industry politics. > > Beyond the technical details like tracking speed and tilt is a serious > tussle over how to divide - and protect - the billions of dollars in > royalties from the licensing of this technology and the content sold on > the discs. Also at stake is an effort by electronics makers to prevent > emerging Chinese rivals and well-established Silicon Valley computer > makers from making significant inroads into the home entertainment business. > > "This is a very intense conflict over intellectual property," said > Warren N. Lieberfarb, a driving force behind the development of the > original DVD format. It has the added overlay, he said, "of the > Japanese, Korean and European consumer electronics industries fearing > China's aggressively emerging consumer electronics industry as well as > the PC industry." > > At the technological level, the combatants are divided roughly into two > camps. Under Mr. Yamada's leadership, NEC and Toshiba have formed a > group that has developed the HD (high definition) DVD, a disc that is > 0.6 millimeter thick and made with machinery similar to that used for > today's DVD's. On the other side is the 10-company Blu-ray Group, led by > Sony and Matsushita, whose best-known brands are Panasonic and JVC. That > group has developed a disc only 0.1 millimeter thick that can hold more > data but needs additional investment to be produced. Information on the > discs can be overwritten after it is recorded, something that is not > possible with the HD DVD's now. > > At 12 centimeters in diameter, both discs are similar to today's > offerings, though Sony's discs are protected from fingerprints, dust and > scratches by square plastic cartridges when not in use. The HD DVD group > has developed a single lens that emits red and blue rays to read both > current and next-generation discs. The Blu-ray machines require two > separate lenses. > > While the discs are still at least a year away from mass production, > both sides are expected to be out in full body armor trying to win new > allies at the big Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, Jan. 8 through > 11, where they are planning to show prototypes of their devices. > > There are many battles left to fight, though, before these new DVD's hit > the shelves, and it is entirely possible that the camps will never reach > a consensus, forcing consumers, retailers, movie studios and others to > adapt, at least initially, to two competing standards. > > In the Betamax-VHS war, one standard ultimately triumphed. That is an > important reason the two chief antagonists in that fight - Sony, the > loser, and Matsushita, the winner - are now allies. In the wake of other > format conflicts, including the one over the first generation of DVD's, > multiple standards co-exist, with the differences papered over by > machines that can play several formats. But in other cases, including > the development of higher-quality music discs, the disputes seem to have > scared away consumers and retailers caught in the middle. > > The ideal, everyone involved insists, is for one format to emerge as the > winner so costs can be kept to a minimum. But as Mr. Yamada knows, that > is about the only thing on which people can agree. In addition to his > role at Toshiba, he is chairman of the powerful Technical Coordination > Group at the DVD Forum, a six-year-old group of more than 200 companies > that is trying to decide on one format. > > In November, the HD DVD camp's specifications were endorsed by the > forum's steering committee. The victory was significant, but tellingly > contentious. The format was not approved until the third ballot, and > only after voting rules were changed and several companies abstained. > The Blu-ray Group did not submit specifications for a read-only disc, > which Hollywood is eager to have for movie sales and rentals. > > Mr. Yamada called the negotiations "very delicate," and said the Blu-ray > Group was trying to prevent the HD DVD from becoming the industry > standard because it does not yet have a solid alternative. > > "They don't want to approve HD DVD in the forum, but since they only > have rewriteable discs, they can't say theirs is better than ours," said > Mr. Yamada, who argues that his goal is to produce an open format that > all companies can share. The Blu-ray Group, he said, "wants to control > the technological standards themselves." Self-serving statements. > > The HD DVD group may get an additional lift in February, when the Walt > Disney Company, Microsoft and Sanyo are expected to take over leadership > of the DVD Forum. The three companies have not sided with either format, > but are seen by some as friendlier to the Toshiba-NEC group. > > Though the two camps produce discs that store similar amounts of data, > manufacturers say that the HD DVD discs cost only 15 percent more to > produce than current discs, a fraction of what they say the Blu-ray > discs will cost. Stamping out prerecorded discs cheaply is the key to > wooing Hollywood studios, which want to keep their retail prices low in > a business that now brings in more money than movies in first-run > theaters. Retailers also want one standard so they do not have to stock > two versions of every movie. > > "What Hollywood cares about is cost," said Kanji Katsuura, the chief > technical officer at Memory-Tech, the second-largest maker of DVD's in > Japan. "They basically want the same price as discs now." > > Sony and its allies dismiss claims that their technology is too > expensive, saying that the cost per disc will naturally fall as > production takes off. They also say their rewriteable discs are what > consumers really want because they can be used not only to play movies > but also to record high-definition digital television programming, now > available selectively in the United States and offered on a limited > basis in Japan starting this month. > > "What we are striving for with Blu-ray is the next stage in the > evolution of this technology," said Yukinori Kawauchi, a manager in the > planning and control division at Sony's broadband network unit. Such a > leap happens only "every 10 or 20 years, like the transition from CD's > to DVD's," he said. In April, Sony started selling Blu-ray DVD recorders > in Japan, where they cost 378,000 yen, or $3,500, and take discs that > sell for 3,000 yen, or about $27. Sony does not release sales figures, > but industry sources said only a few hundred players had been sold so far. > > Mr. Yamada said Toshiba wanted to introduce DVD recorders in 2005 that > cost less than $2,000 and players priced below $1,000. They would be > much cheaper than machines using the competing format, but would still > be aimed mostly at the early adopters, who are the first to try new > technologies. As in the past, the new formats are not expected to take > off in the mass market until the price falls sharply. But will they offer recorders from the beginning? > > "The battle really depends on the price level," said Yuki Sugi, a > consumer electronics analyst at Deutsche Securities in Tokyo. "When the > price falls to 120,000 yen ($1,080), it will catch on. This is a kind of > magic number for high-priced electronics." > > History indicates that the magic number might be reached earlier than > anticipated. Sales of DVD discs and players gathered steam when > production began in China, pushing prices lower. But some manufacturers > worry that their technology could be used by Chinese rivals, legally or > otherwise. This fear, some critics say, is why the Blu-ray group has > kept a tight lid on its technology instead of sharing more of its > specifications with other members of the DVD Forum. Striking back, nine > Chinese companies have said they plan to develop their own DVD formats. > > Copyright infringement is another worry. After the rapid spread of > illegally copied DVDs, Hollywood is pushing both technical groups to > come up with new security measures to protect their movies. Neither > group has developed a prototype that satisfies the movie industry - a > major impediment to a commercial launch. > > "We are very much focused on both picture quality and content > protection," said Peter Murphy, senior executive vice president and > chief strategic officer at the Walt Disney Company, which has about > one-fourth of the home video market. "The consumer electronics > manufacturers can come up with the technical standards for the > next-generation discs, but unless we also agree on the content > protection standards, many of the studios may choose to wait before > releasing content in the new format." > > Also lurking nearby are giants like Microsoft, I.B.M. and Intel, which > are eager to work their way into family rooms by promoting their > technology for use in set-top boxes, DVD players and digital video > recorders with hard disk drives. American computer makers, adept at > producing hardware on thin margins by building sophisticated global > supply chains, could also develop competing products, turning television > into just another function of the home computer. > > "Younger generations are completely happy working with a mouse, which is > better than a 1,000-button remote," said Tom Adams, president of Adams > Media Research in Carmel, Calif. "Microsoft can dominate in ways that > Sony or Toshiba can't." > > Some analysts contend that high-speed Internet connections will > ultimately make discs less relevant as consumers download more music and > movies, though this is a more distant threat. > > For now, discs remain the medium of choice, and the decision on a format > will ultimately be up to Hollywood. Some movie executives are leaning > toward the HD DVD format because it is seen as the cheaper of the two. > But others are still weighing the technological and financial arguments > from both groups. > > Many in the industry say the worst case would be an endless fight, > forcing the public to wrestle with two formats. > > If that happens, said Mr. Lieberfarb, the developer of the original DVD > format, "everyone is a loser, particularly Hollywood studios, the > retailer community and, most importantly, the consumer." > poldy |
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#8 |
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In article <poldy->, poldy <> wrote:
>In article <zxXHb.2776$>, > robert gray <> wrote: > >> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/29/te...gy/29disk.html > > >> >> The HD DVD group may get an additional lift in February, when the Walt >> Disney Company, Microsoft and Sanyo are expected to take over leadership >> of the DVD Forum. The three companies have not sided with either format, >> but are seen by some as friendlier to the Toshiba-NEC group. >> > HELL ON EARTH!!!!!!!!!! GMAN |
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#9 |
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robert gray <> wrote in message news:<zxXHb.2776$> ...
> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/29/te...gy/29disk.html > December 29, 2003 > Heavyweights Are Choosing Sides in Battle Over Next DVD Format > By KEN BELSON [...] >Under Mr. Yamada's leadership, NEC and Toshiba have formed a >group that has developed the HD (high definition) DVD, a disc that is >0.6 millimeter thick and made with machinery similar to that used for >today's DVD's. Hollywood will love this, because the new discs will be at least as vulnerable to scratches and other damage as current DVDs. They found out the hard way with DIVX that blatant purposeful time-limiting of discs wouldn't go over with consumers, but were at least consoled that damage vulnerability put in de facto time limits on DVDs. At least, it's a de facto time limit on video rentals and used video sales (two practices Hollywood despises almost as much as piracy). As long as the discs are unprotected, they will suffer abuse by stupid users, and Hollywood will get the revenue they desire in replacements for video rental stores and from people avoiding used videos. >On the other side is the 10-company Blu-ray Group, led by >Sony and Matsushita, whose best-known brands are Panasonic >and JVC. That group has developed a disc only 0.1 >millimeter thick that can hold more data but needs >additional investment to be produced. Information on the >discs can be overwritten after it is recorded, something >that is not possible with the HD DVD's now. >At 12 centimeters in diameter, both discs are similar to >today's offerings, though Sony's discs are protected from >fingerprints, dust and scratches by square plastic cartridges >when not in use. This technology is simply better for consumers and video rental outlets, but Hollywood will hate it specifically BECAUSE it's better for consumers and video rental outlets. The protective cases are reason enough for me to support this format. It will make the things kid-friendly (as in, kids won't destroy the things on a regular basis), and it will make video rental and buying used videos a pleasure. Of course, being able to record is a bonus for consumers. Hollywood hates this for obvious reasons. >The HD DVD group has developed a single lens that emits >red and blue rays to read both current and next-generation >discs. The Blu-ray machines require two separate lenses. Now that everyone has gotten a $30 DVD player for Christmas, backwards compatability with DVD playback is almost a non-issue. >The HD DVD group may get an additional lift in February, >when the Walt Disney Company, Microsoft and Sanyo are >expected to take over leadership of the DVD Forum. I don't know about Sanyo, but Disney and Microsoft would certainly favor the inferior HD DVD format. Disney should be positively salivating at prospects of yet another format of discs which hordes of kids will periodically destroy so parents will buy multiple new copies. Microsoft would like computer drives which can accept older CD and DVD discs without any mechanical kludges. >Mr. Yamada said Toshiba wanted to introduce DVD recorders >in 2005 that cost less than $2,000 and players priced below >$1,000. They would be much cheaper than machines using the >competing format, but would still be aimed mostly at the >early adopters, who are the first to try new technologies. >As in the past, the new formats are not expected to take >off in the mass market until the price falls sharply. We heard similar claims of DVD recorders by 1999 and replacing VHS by 2000 when the DVD format was being developed. It's empty claims and vaporware; it's just a smokescreen. >For now, discs remain the medium of choice, and the decision >on a format will ultimately be up to Hollywood. Some movie >executives are leaning toward the HD DVD format because it >is seen as the cheaper of the two. But others are still >weighing the technological and financial arguments from >both groups. I don't see how Blu-ray stands a chance against HD DVD with movie executives. Blu-ray caters to everyone Hollywood hates--video rental outlets, used video buyers, time-shifters, and video pirates. For movie executives who want a read-only format vulnerable to kid and rental damage, HD DVD is the obvious choice. Isaac Kuo Isaac Kuo |
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"luminos" <> writes:
> "GW" <> wrote in message > news:go5Ib.12848$... >> > "We are very much focused on both picture quality and content >> > protection," said Peter Murphy, senior executive vice president and >> > chief strategic officer at the Walt Disney Company, which has about >> > one-fourth of the home video market. >> >> 'one-fourth' ? > > He is ONLY interested in content protection. Disney needs a very new > corporate mindset! I just don't get these doddering old farts... Petey wants the content protected from what? People watching it? Well, I got news for Petey: Disney still ain't getting a dime from my friends' kids who come over to my house to watch my Pirates DVD on my widescreen RPTV with my kids. He should have the MPAA sue me, if he can figure out how to contact me. -- Forte International, P.O. Box 1412, Ridgecrest, CA 93556-1412 Ronald Cole <> Phone: (760) 499-9142 President, CEO Fax: (760) 499-9152 My GPG fingerprint: C3AF 4BE9 BEA6 F1C2 B084 4A88 8851 E6C8 69E3 B00B Ronald Cole |
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