DVD Deteriorating?

So... there are a lot of theories...

What's YOUR take on the shelf life of your garden variety DVD? Is that
collection that has already gone into the hundreds going to turn to dust on
you?

Wade365

> So... there are a lot of theories...
>
> What's YOUR take on the shelf life of your garden variety DVD? Is that
> collection that has already gone into the hundreds going to turn to dust on
> you?

Not mine. Not even one finger print on a single one. Yet those that
always ask about how to clean their DVDs (how the hell do they get dirty?!)
yes, those people's DVDs are going to deteriorate as the acids and oils eat
through them so they look just like the floor at a public restroom.

Justin Teim

Well, out of 300 DVDs purchased over the last 4-5 years, I've had 2 rot on
me.

Region 4 of Shawshank redemption no longer plays any of the extras, and the
menus don't work.
Region 1 (Canada) of "Clerks" - last few chapters completely refuse to
play.

Both discs show odd discoloration marks on the metallic layer under the
plastic, have no scratches, have not been mistreated, fingerprinted or kept
in a humid environment.

I also own about 350 laserdiscs, the rotting of which is a well documented
phenomenon. Impurities enter the discs during manufacture (2 discs are
glued back to back), particularly from certain manufacturers. Am I right in
thinking that DVDs are also glued back to back for 2 sided discs? Not sure
about that one!
Sadly I think it's inevitable that more DVDs will exhibit the problem after
time. Both of these discs above are old pressings. Certainly seems less of
a problem than Laserdisc - I guess the error correction in players takes
care of most small blemishes, unlike the analogue video on Laserdisc.

Sorry if this is depressing. Has anyone else had this problem with the
above discs?

Ben

"Wade365" <> wrote in message
news:...
> So... there are a lot of theories...
>
> What's YOUR take on the shelf life of your garden variety DVD? Is that
> collection that has already gone into the hundreds going to turn to dust
on
> you?

Ben Davies

> > What's YOUR take on the shelf life of your garden variety DVD? Is that
> > collection that has already gone into the hundreds going to turn to dust on
> > you?
>
> Not mine. Not even one finger print on a single one. Yet those that
> always ask about how to clean their DVDs (how the hell do they get dirty?!)
> yes, those people's DVDs are going to deteriorate as the acids and oils eat
> through them so they look just like the floor at a public restroom.

It's not that simple. Things don't last forever just because they're not touched
or damaged. Ageing, humidity and temperature fluctuations is all it takes, and
the question is only how long before it won't play anymore. Because of the way
DVD's are manufactured they probably won't last as long as CD's. Also, some
DVD's are manufactured better than others - hence some will fail long before
they should (DVD rot being an example). This is not to give an impression of
impending doom on people's collection, but some DVD's will deteriorate before
time no matter how well they're taken care of.


ML-78

ML-78

> Well, out of 300 DVDs purchased over the last 4-5 years, I've had 2 rot on
> me.
>
> Region 4 of Shawshank redemption no longer plays any of the extras, and the
> menus don't work.
> Region 1 (Canada) of "Clerks" - last few chapters completely refuse to
> play.

Try buying a new DVD player. I had problems like you are having, only they
were with BRAND NEW DVDs. So I got rid of my older generation DVD player for
one of the new ones, and now all the DVDs play fine.

I was one of the very first people to buy the Clerks DVD, it was the very first
one I bought. It still plays just fine.

> Both discs show odd discoloration marks on the metallic layer under the
> plastic,

Yes, I have seen that as well, and is why I open every DVD at the time of
purchase and make the exchange right away when this factory defect occurs, so I
don't have to drive all the way back to exchange it.

> I also own about 350 laserdiscs, the rotting of which is a well documented
> phenomenon.

Again, as the machines get older, these problems occur. The bad thing about
laser discs, is that you can't buy new players anymore, so you are just screwed.

> Impurities enter the discs during manufacture (2 discs are
> glued back to back), particularly from certain manufacturers. Am I right in
> thinking that DVDs are also glued back to back for 2 sided discs?

DVDs are glued together, but not all DVDs have to be dual layer. Without all
the extra features, additional languages, etc, one layer would be good enough.

> Sorry if this is depressing. Has anyone else had this problem with the
> above discs?

Do you have a friend who bought a DVD player in the last year? Bring the
DVDs over to your friends house, and you will find they play just fine.

I had the same problem, but was smart enough to figure out it was the player,
not the discs.

Sure

> It's not that simple. Things don't last forever just because they're not touched
> or damaged.

Really? The wax cylinders I have and play that are over 100 years old do seem to
be lasting forever because they have been cared for properly.

> the question is only how long before it won't play anymore.

That would be very sad if modern space age technology would not last as long as
recordable mediums from over 100 years ago are.

The same idiotic claims were made about CDs. Funny thing, is that whenever a new
medium comes out, some idiot is able to say how many years it will last, even though
none have ever existed for that period or length of time to make such an idiotic
statement.

CDRs were supposed to only last 5 years, yet none were ever in existence for that
many years.

Why not wait for DVDs to actually start rotting and dissolving away before our eyes
before we actually put a life span on them.

I am still waiting for my Edison Cylinder records to "rot" so I suspect you will be
dead before anyone sees DVDs dissolving away.

Sure

> That would be very sad if modern space age technology would not last as long
as
> recordable mediums from over 100 years ago are.

It has nothing to do with how old or new the technology itself is, it has
everything to do with what materials are used and how the item is manufactured.
A vinyl LP will last much longer than any DVD because it's simply a plastic disc
whereas a DVD is glued and pressed.

> The same idiotic claims were made about CDs. Funny thing, is that whenever
a new
> medium comes out, some idiot is able to say how many years it will last, even
though
> none have ever existed for that period or length of time to make such an
idiotic
> statement.

Nobody in the thread said how long a DVD will last. But DVD (and Laser Disc for
that matter) has existed long enough for deterioration processes to show
("rotting").

> Why not wait for DVDs to actually start rotting and dissolving away before our
eyes
> before we actually put a life span on them.

Try checking your facts first.

> I am still waiting for my Edison Cylinder records to "rot" so I suspect you
will be
> dead before anyone sees DVDs dissolving away.

I don't think you have understood the problem. "New technology" is not
necessarily longer lasting than "old technology". If a DVD is made properly and
handled with care it will last long (not forever) but if it wasn't properly
manufactured (and not all are), deterioration processes such as oxidization or
delamination will happen faster than they otherwise would.


ML-78

ML-78

So if our Dvd's are deteriorating we should be allowed to make a backup of
that Dvd so when our original Dvd finally dies we still can still watch the
film. I own over 200 dvds (and no backups by the way) and have noticed the
odd discoloration marks on the metallic layer under the
plastic. This occurs more on cheaper Dvd's (like from the pound shop) which
I don't expect to last very long.

I guess the "legal" idea of the Dvd makers is for us to go out and buy the
Dvd's again earning them more revenue or that Dvd's will soon be old medium
(like the faithful laserdiscs) so it doesn't matter.


"Sure" <> wrote in message news:...
> > Well, out of 300 DVDs purchased over the last 4-5 years, I've had 2 rot
on
> > me.
> >
> > Region 4 of Shawshank redemption no longer plays any of the extras, and
the
> > menus don't work.
> > Region 1 (Canada) of "Clerks" - last few chapters completely refuse to
> > play.
>
> Try buying a new DVD player. I had problems like you are having, only
they
> were with BRAND NEW DVDs. So I got rid of my older generation DVD
player for
> one of the new ones, and now all the DVDs play fine.
>
> I was one of the very first people to buy the Clerks DVD, it was the very
first
> one I bought. It still plays just fine.
>
> > Both discs show odd discoloration marks on the metallic layer under the
> > plastic,
>
> Yes, I have seen that as well, and is why I open every DVD at the time of
> purchase and make the exchange right away when this factory defect occurs,
so I
> don't have to drive all the way back to exchange it.
>
> > I also own about 350 laserdiscs, the rotting of which is a well
documented
> > phenomenon.
>
> Again, as the machines get older, these problems occur. The bad thing
about
> laser discs, is that you can't buy new players anymore, so you are just
screwed.
>
> > Impurities enter the discs during manufacture (2 discs are
> > glued back to back), particularly from certain manufacturers. Am I
right in
> > thinking that DVDs are also glued back to back for 2 sided discs?
>
> DVDs are glued together, but not all DVDs have to be dual layer.
Without all
> the extra features, additional languages, etc, one layer would be good
enough.
>
> > Sorry if this is depressing. Has anyone else had this problem with the
> > above discs?
>
> Do you have a friend who bought a DVD player in the last year? Bring
the
> DVDs over to your friends house, and you will find they play just fine.
>
> I had the same problem, but was smart enough to figure out it was the
player,
> not the discs.
>
>

Nick

Sure <> wrote in message news:<>...

> Really? The wax cylinders I have and play that are over 100 years old do
> seem to0 be lasting forever because they have been cared for properly.

*Nothing* lasts forever. Ask any archivist.

Having said that, I suspect DVD's and other optical media will
certainly have a much longer shelf life than any magnetic media (i.e.
VHS tapes, cassettes, etc.). But how long they actually continue to
function will depend on several factors:

1) How often they're used--Use inevitably causes wear, even with
optical media. Every time you take a disc out of the case, you're
exposing it to chemicals in the air, the risk of accidental scratches,
heat stresses from within the DVD player, etc.

2) Manufacturing Processes--some DVD's will be manufactured in ways
that give them a longer functional life expectancy than others.
Already we are seeing this with some of the early Warner RSDL
titles--which seem to have a much greater propensity for "DVD Rot"
than other discs.

3) How well they are stored--any archivist will tell you that one of
the most consistent destructive factors to any artifact is temperature
and humidity fluctuation. Different materials expand and contract at
different rates, leading to inevitable damage to complex artifacts
stored in areas where there are extreme temperature and humidity
fluctuations (i.e. an attic, a barn, etc.).

There are other factors, of course. But I think these are the three
primary determinants of how long a DVD will last.

I do think it is safe to say that most DVD's, if handled and stored
properly, will last long beyond their technological obsolescence. So,
while they won't last forever, they WILL last beyond the point that
most of us give a **** about DVD's.

-Eric

Eric R.

Japan just introduced a phone with a TV in it which will allow 60 min. of
viewing time on a digital broadcast, and there will soon be pocket viewers
which can hold a film on a memory bar... heh heh... who knows what the next hot
format will be? But for the time being, DVD sure is handy and small and even
portable.

A lot better than VHS, even if they rot out from under me in a decade, at
$10-$20 I won't complain all that much I guess. As you say, by that time who
knows what the format will be? Things are changing every DAY... IMO if you
don't abuse the medium, it should have a long shelf life.

Wade365