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what do i need to write DVDs?

 
 
Max Volume
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-08-2003
In article <BBD1DD3B.262D7%(E-Mail Removed)>, MR_ED_of_Course
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Though many of us who edit video and author DVDs professionally would highly
> recommend a Mac. Curious Marcellus, why are you not considering using a
> system that is universally reviewed as being better suited for media (video)
> production?
>
> Go ahead and get a PC and deal with all the issues and hassles, come back
> with your posts of, "this doesn't seem to work with that" and "my audio
> isn't synching", and....
>
> Max, where are you now?


Alright, alright, alright! Yes, Marcellus, this is what you've got to
look forward to if you go the PC route. I've just gotten so used to
people ignoring Macs that I really just don't give a **** anymore. I
can just sit back and laugh when you Windows zombies complain about
dropped frames on your "dedicated" PC while I sit here and read
newsgroups while Final Cut Pro 4 renders in the background. You can't
beat the Mac for video work these days, and if money is a concern, even
something like an iMac will do the job. Don't be put off by the closed
architecture -- as DVD-R technology progresses, an external Firewire
drive will work just fine even if you can't upgrade the SuperDrive.
Also, if you buy a G5, you don't necessarily need to shell out for a
23" Cinema Display -- I believe you can use any standard SVGA display,
which might be a compromise in the area of image clarity, but it should
at least save you some money.

Not to re-open THIS debate again, but I did just notice that in DVD
Studio Pro, I can write a script to prevent a disc from playing based
on the region code of the player. I guess that's one more reason
you'll never believe that I created a region-coded DVD-R in DVD Studio
Pro. Remember, though -- I'd have to PURPOSELY WRITE THE SCRIPT AND
ADD IT TO THE PROJECT, which I haven't done, and furthermore it would
NOT supply the player-specific error codes I've gotten on THREE
different brands of players, all of which SPECIFICALLY mention region
encoding.
 
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Max Volume
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      11-08-2003
In article <7Warb.552106$(E-Mail Removed)>, Colon Terminus
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Hi Max,
>
> Thanks for your helpful comment.


Well, how am I *supposed* to react when some idiot posts "don't bother
with a 'home hobby' setup, but get yourself a macro-buster"???

I suppose you think that there are thousands of "professional
workstations" running Vegas Video on Alienware hardware with a "color
corrector" removing all that nasty Macrovision.

Again I say, wake the **** up.
 
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Reginald Dwight
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-08-2003
In article <081120031518103705%(E-Mail Removed)> ,
Max Volume <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Alright, alright, alright! Yes, Marcellus, this is what you've got to
> look forward to if you go the PC route. I've just gotten so used to
> people ignoring Macs that I really just don't give a **** anymore. I
> can just sit back and laugh when you Windows zombies complain about
> dropped frames on your "dedicated" PC while I sit here and read
> newsgroups while Final Cut Pro 4 renders in the background.


Amen, brother! Been working glitch free for 3 years now. Life is good!
<http://www.apple.com>
 
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MR_ED_of_Course
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      11-09-2003
in article 081120031518103705%(E-Mail Removed), Max Volume at
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote on 11/8/03 12:15 PM:

> In article <BBD1DD3B.262D7%(E-Mail Removed)>, MR_ED_of_Course
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Though many of us who edit video and author DVDs professionally would highly
>> recommend a Mac. Curious Marcellus, why are you not considering using a
>> system that is universally reviewed as being better suited for media (video)
>> production?
>>
>> Go ahead and get a PC and deal with all the issues and hassles, come back
>> with your posts of, "this doesn't seem to work with that" and "my audio
>> isn't synching", and....
>>
>> Max, where are you now?

>
> Alright, alright, alright! Yes, Marcellus, this is what you've got to
> look forward to if you go the PC route. I've just gotten so used to
> people ignoring Macs that I really just don't give a **** anymore. I
> can just sit back and laugh when you Windows zombies complain about
> dropped frames on your "dedicated" PC while I sit here and read
> newsgroups while Final Cut Pro 4 renders in the background. You can't
> beat the Mac for video work these days, and if money is a concern, even
> something like an iMac will do the job. Don't be put off by the closed
> architecture -- as DVD-R technology progresses, an external Firewire
> drive will work just fine even if you can't upgrade the SuperDrive.
> Also, if you buy a G5, you don't necessarily need to shell out for a
> 23" Cinema Display -- I believe you can use any standard SVGA display,
> which might be a compromise in the area of image clarity, but it should
> at least save you some money.


Yep, the card allows you to hook up two standard displays (or more if you
buy another video card). I actually have 4 hooked up to mine.

> Not to re-open THIS debate again, but I did just notice that in DVD
> Studio Pro, I can write a script to prevent a disc from playing based
> on the region code of the player. I guess that's one more reason
> you'll never believe that I created a region-coded DVD-R in DVD Studio
> Pro. Remember, though -- I'd have to PURPOSELY WRITE THE SCRIPT AND
> ADD IT TO THE PROJECT, which I haven't done, and furthermore it would
> NOT supply the player-specific error codes I've gotten on THREE
> different brands of players, all of which SPECIFICALLY mention region
> encoding.


Of course you can write that script. However just because you can write a
script that acts based on info from the player, doesn't mean that you've
region coded a DVD. The region code field (VMGM_MAT 0023) would remain the
same on the disk...as you've pointed out, no region error would occur on the
player unless of course you branched off to a stream that had a region error
message.

You can not region code a DVD-R with DVD Studio Pro (I'm unaware of any DVD
authoring apps that do this). The region code feature for DVD Studio Pro is
for DLT or CMF. Apple says this. The DVDSP manual says this. All books on
DVDSP say this. Replicators say this. I have verified this with testing as
well. Max is the only person in the world who claims otherwise.

Glad to see you're getting around to opening that manual. Maybe eventually
you'll understand the advantage of having a timeline editor in DVD Studio
Pro 2.

Or more to the point of the thread, you'll see the benefit of templates.
This reminds me a lot of a few years ago when I created some FileMaker Pro
databases. The admin assistant did simple data entry in an easy to use
interface mode, but reports, mailings, and other stuff were done by me in a
more functional interface.

Same thing goes with DVDSP2 and templates. The OP could have someone come
in and set up his system. They could then set up a series of templates for
the various types of clients he has. Instead of the OP having to create
*all* artwork for each individual client, or instead of pulling all the
assets together each time, he can simply edit the video, and select the
template he wants for the type of client he has.

 
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Colon Terminus
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-09-2003
Hi Max,

The guy was on a budget, he couldn't afford alienware.

"Max Volume" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:081120031520543526%(E-Mail Removed) m...
> In article <7Warb.552106$(E-Mail Removed)>, Colon Terminus
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Hi Max,
> >
> > Thanks for your helpful comment.

>
> Well, how am I *supposed* to react when some idiot posts "don't bother
> with a 'home hobby' setup, but get yourself a macro-buster"???
>
> I suppose you think that there are thousands of "professional
> workstations" running Vegas Video on Alienware hardware with a "color
> corrector" removing all that nasty Macrovision.
>
> Again I say, wake the **** up.



 
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Max Volume
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-09-2003
In article <BBD2DC0D.2638D%(E-Mail Removed)>, MR_ED_of_Course
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Of course you can write that script. However just because you can write a
> script that acts based on info from the player, doesn't mean that you've
> region coded a DVD. The region code field (VMGM_MAT 0023) would remain the
> same on the disk...as you've pointed out, no region error would occur on the
> player unless of course you branched off to a stream that had a region error
> message.


Why do I continue to give you ammunition? You completely ignored the
part where I pointed out that A) I DID NOT EVEN WRITE SUCH A SCRIPT,
and B) I *DID* GET THREE DIFFERENT PLAYER-SPECIFIC ERROR MESSAGES SUCH
AS "WRONG REGION", "CANNOT BE PLAYED DUE TO REGION RESTRICTONS", ETC.

> You can not region code a DVD-R with DVD Studio Pro (I'm unaware of any DVD
> authoring apps that do this). The region code feature for DVD Studio Pro is
> for DLT or CMF. Apple says this. The DVDSP manual says this. All books on
> DVDSP say this. Replicators say this. I have verified this with testing as
> well. Max is the only person in the world who claims otherwise.


I'm the only one who read the manual and didn't automatically take it
as gospel truth. If one particular drive or brand of media would fail
to produce a region-coded DVD-R, Apple would hear about it from their
customers. Therefore, the manual states that it's not supported.

> Glad to see you're getting around to opening that manual. Maybe eventually
> you'll understand the advantage of having a timeline editor in DVD Studio
> Pro 2.


Oh believe me, the timeline editor is not necessarily a feature I'm
opposed to. Still, having Final Cut Pro 4 makes it rather redundant.

> Or more to the point of the thread, you'll see the benefit of templates.
> This reminds me a lot of a few years ago when I created some FileMaker Pro
> databases. The admin assistant did simple data entry in an easy to use
> interface mode, but reports, mailings, and other stuff were done by me in a
> more functional interface.


I create my FileMaker Pro databases from scratch as well. Maybe your
limited imagination is satisfied with existing templates in both cases,
but not mine.

> Same thing goes with DVDSP2 and templates. The OP could have someone come
> in and set up his system. They could then set up a series of templates for
> the various types of clients he has. Instead of the OP having to create
> *all* artwork for each individual client, or instead of pulling all the
> assets together each time, he can simply edit the video, and select the
> template he wants for the type of client he has.


Sure, if you want all the projects to look alike with a few minor
changes. Let me explain something here -- I WANT TO PRODUCE
PROFESSIONAL-LOOKING DVDS!!! Columbia House may be content to use the
same general layout to their crappy menus with only a few minor
changes, but that's not how movies are done at the major studios. Rent
"Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone", then rent "Two Weeks Notice"
and tell me how templates would be of any use if you were producing
those two DVDs. Each of my projects is unique, so templates are
useless. You might want to try actually LOOKING at what I'm doing
before opening your stupid mouth.
 
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Max Volume
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-09-2003
In article <k6krb.659082$(E-Mail Removed)>, Colon Terminus
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> The guy was on a budget, he couldn't afford alienware.


Oh, for pete's sake -- ALL I'M SAYING HERE IS DON'T EVEN *START*
TALKING ABOUT "PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATIONS" THEN LIST A BUNCH OF CONSUMER
CRAP, *E*S*P*E*C*I*A*L*L*Y* NOT A ****ING MACRO BUSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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MR_ED_of_Course
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-09-2003
in article 091120030032093267%(E-Mail Removed), Max Volume at
(E-Mail Removed) wrote on 11/8/03 9:29 PM:

> In article <BBD2DC0D.2638D%(E-Mail Removed)>, MR_ED_of_Course
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Of course you can write that script. However just because you can write a
>> script that acts based on info from the player, doesn't mean that you've
>> region coded a DVD. The region code field (VMGM_MAT 0023) would remain the
>> same on the disk...as you've pointed out, no region error would occur on the
>> player unless of course you branched off to a stream that had a region error
>> message.

>
> Why do I continue to give you ammunition? You completely ignored the
> part where I pointed out that A) I DID NOT EVEN WRITE SUCH A SCRIPT,


I never said you did. Should I have written, "I acknowledge that he did not
even write such a script"? What the hell difference does it make, you can
write a script, but the region code field would remain the same.

> and B) I *DID* GET THREE DIFFERENT PLAYER-SPECIFIC ERROR MESSAGES SUCH
> AS "WRONG REGION", "CANNOT BE PLAYED DUE TO REGION RESTRICTONS", ETC.


I've already said numerous times that I don't believe you are correct and
Apple, the DVDSP manuals, replicators, and what I've tested myself are
wrong. I other words, I don't believe you when you say you received 3
different region error messages.

>> You can not region code a DVD-R with DVD Studio Pro (I'm unaware of any DVD
>> authoring apps that do this). The region code feature for DVD Studio Pro is
>> for DLT or CMF. Apple says this. The DVDSP manual says this. All books on
>> DVDSP say this. Replicators say this. I have verified this with testing as
>> well. Max is the only person in the world who claims otherwise.

>
> I'm the only one who read the manual and didn't automatically take it
> as gospel truth. If one particular drive or brand of media would fail
> to produce a region-coded DVD-R, Apple would hear about it from their
> customers. Therefore, the manual states that it's not supported.


Great, what brand of DVD are you using. Hell, I'll try it. Also, it's not
only Apple that is saying it can't be done.


>> Glad to see you're getting around to opening that manual. Maybe eventually
>> you'll understand the advantage of having a timeline editor in DVD Studio
>> Pro 2.

>
> Oh believe me, the timeline editor is not necessarily a feature I'm
> opposed to. Still, having Final Cut Pro 4 makes it rather redundant.


Your comments earlier were pretty negative about it. Besides the timeline
is not just a video editor in DVDSP, as such, it certainly isn't a required
feature, but it makes lining up multichannel audio tracks, angles, and so
forth a bit easier rather than going back into FCP. Especially with the
improvements in DVDSP2 in regards to having variable length angles.

>> Or more to the point of the thread, you'll see the benefit of templates.
>> This reminds me a lot of a few years ago when I created some FileMaker Pro
>> databases. The admin assistant did simple data entry in an easy to use
>> interface mode, but reports, mailings, and other stuff were done by me in a
>> more functional interface.

>
> I create my FileMaker Pro databases from scratch as well. Maybe your
> limited imagination is satisfied with existing templates in both cases,
> but not mine.


Existing templates has nothing to do with either situation. DVDSP2 comes
with only a handful of sample templates. Certainly, it's easy to see how
templates wouldn't be used, but like Filemaker, sometimes it makes sense to
set up templates for someone else being hired to do simple data entry...or
video entry.

>
>> Same thing goes with DVDSP2 and templates. The OP could have someone come
>> in and set up his system. They could then set up a series of templates for
>> the various types of clients he has. Instead of the OP having to create
>> *all* artwork for each individual client, or instead of pulling all the
>> assets together each time, he can simply edit the video, and select the
>> template he wants for the type of client he has.

>
> Sure, if you want all the projects to look alike with a few minor
> changes. Let me explain something here -- I WANT TO PRODUCE
> PROFESSIONAL-LOOKING DVDS!!! Columbia House may be content to use the
> same general layout to their crappy menus with only a few minor
> changes, but that's not how movies are done at the major studios. Rent
> "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone", then rent "Two Weeks Notice"
> and tell me how templates would be of any use if you were producing
> those two DVDs. Each of my projects is unique, so templates are
> useless. You might want to try actually LOOKING at what I'm doing
> before opening your stupid mouth.


It doesn't mater what you're doing. In fact it's exactly what you aren't
doing. You accuse me of being narrow minded or ignorant, but it's just the
opposite. I never once said that templates are for everyone pro or
otherwise, only that it was a smart idea for Apple to include this
functionality in DVDSP2 and that it will be used by pros and consumers.

Great, Harry Potter has a nice menu. Great, you did the whole thing
yourself, or some other project just as spectacular. You're not the only
professional, and what you do is not the only task or mission of a
professional using DVDSP. From the beginning, I've stated that there are
many reasons why Apple included templates, and your claim was that it was
stupid and people should just use iDVD if they want to use templates. Admit
it, there are reasons why professionals would want to use templates. This
is a feature not related to your limited (however spectacular) use of DVDSP,
but for many such as the OP or some studios...in particular one of the
studios I worked at where we would've loved to have had the ability create
templates for the various shows.

Even beyond the need for template looking and functioning disks, there is
the ability to template any component of a project. In other words the end
user would never know that the template from one DVD was used for another,
but the person who did the authoring may have save a lot of time by simply
replacing the needed components rather than starting from scratch. This of
course is not Harry Potter, but than again not all DVDs being produced fall
into the Harry Potter category.

Now that you see how some people have a need for templates, or at least how
templates can facilitate production...what software would *you* recommend
for anyone who wanted template functionality, but also wanted DD 5.1,
angles, subtitles, language tracks, output to DLT or CMF, etc...?

 
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Max Volume
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-09-2003
In article <BBD3227D.26492%(E-Mail Removed)>, MR_ED_of_Course
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I never said you did. Should I have written, "I acknowledge that he did not
> even write such a script"? What the hell difference does it make, you can
> write a script, but the region code field would remain the same.


The difference is that if I WROTE the script and included it, I would
not need to have created a region-encoded DVD-R. However, I have.

> I've already said numerous times that I don't believe you are correct and
> Apple, the DVDSP manuals, replicators, and what I've tested myself are
> wrong. I other words, I don't believe you when you say you received 3
> different region error messages.


Well that's your ****ing problem.

> Great, what brand of DVD are you using. Hell, I'll try it. Also, it's not
> only Apple that is saying it can't be done.


Yes, there's the other ****ing lemmings who believe everything they
read and don't bother trying anything themselves. I've explained this
numerous times you stupid moron, but here we go again:

17" flat-screen iMac -- 800MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HD (2002 model)
Mac OS 10.2.8
DVD Studio Pro 1.5
maxell 4.7GB DVD-R 2.0 for General

> Your comments earlier were pretty negative about it. Besides the timeline
> is not just a video editor in DVDSP, as such, it certainly isn't a required
> feature, but it makes lining up multichannel audio tracks, angles, and so
> forth a bit easier rather than going back into FCP. Especially with the
> improvements in DVDSP2 in regards to having variable length angles.


Variable-length angles is a good feature to have, but you're still
missing the pretty ****ing basic point that DVDs are NOT LINEAR!!!
It's a random-access medium, so not every project is going to fit
nicely onto a ****ing linear timeline! Think outside the box for once
and realize that not everyone creates DVDs that are just movies!!!

> Existing templates has nothing to do with either situation. DVDSP2 comes
> with only a handful of sample templates. Certainly, it's easy to see how
> templates wouldn't be used, but like Filemaker, sometimes it makes sense to
> set up templates for someone else being hired to do simple data entry...or
> video entry.


Regardless, it's all cookie-cutter crap, whether you create the
cookie-cutter from scratch or not. It's pointless, and "professionals"
don't bother using such pedestrian features.

> It doesn't mater what you're doing. In fact it's exactly what you aren't
> doing. You accuse me of being narrow minded or ignorant, but it's just the
> opposite. I never once said that templates are for everyone pro or
> otherwise, only that it was a smart idea for Apple to include this
> functionality in DVDSP2 and that it will be used by pros and consumers.


My point is, moron, that DVD Studio (let me spell it out for you) PEE
ARR ****ing OHHHH is supposed to be a PROfessional package! Leave the
templates to cute little iDVD!!!

> Great, Harry Potter has a nice menu. Great, you did the whole thing
> yourself, or some other project just as spectacular. You're not the only
> professional, and what you do is not the only task or mission of a
> professional using DVDSP. From the beginning, I've stated that there are
> many reasons why Apple included templates, and your claim was that it was
> stupid and people should just use iDVD if they want to use templates. Admit
> it, there are reasons why professionals would want to use templates. This
> is a feature not related to your limited (however spectacular) use of DVDSP,
> but for many such as the OP or some studios...in particular one of the
> studios I worked at where we would've loved to have had the ability create
> templates for the various shows.


That is total crap. By their very nature, templates are generic. I
can use the same Photoshop file, and it'll contain all the same
buttons, etc. that a template would. A little editing is all that's
required to create yet another bland, boring piece of ****. If that's
all you're concerned about, stick with iDVD.

> Even beyond the need for template looking and functioning disks, there is
> the ability to template any component of a project. In other words the end
> user would never know that the template from one DVD was used for another,
> but the person who did the authoring may have save a lot of time by simply
> replacing the needed components rather than starting from scratch. This of
> course is not Harry Potter, but than again not all DVDs being produced fall
> into the Harry Potter category.


Not all DVDs produced fit into the "The Day My Wife Popped Out Our
Third Kid" category, either.

> Now that you see how some people have a need for templates, or at least how
> templates can facilitate production...what software would *you* recommend
> for anyone who wanted template functionality, but also wanted DD 5.1,
> angles, subtitles, language tracks, output to DLT or CMF, etc...?


You're contradicting yourself. That's basically asking "what software
would someone use if they're a beginner creating a DVD of home movies,
but want their camcorder footage to be heard in full 5.1 surround?"
You obviously have no ****ing clue what the difference is between
professional DVD authoring and "making a DVD", so why the **** should I
bother explaining it to you???
 
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Max Volume
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-09-2003
In article <BBD3227D.26492%(E-Mail Removed)>, MR_ED_of_Course
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> not all DVDs being produced fall
> into the Harry Potter category.


Oh, and one more thing. You ****ing infuriate me with your outright
refusal to rub a couple of brain cells together and think about what
you're ****ing reading!!! My point, genius, was that there are SO many
****ing differences between two PROFESSIONAL DVD MENUS that templates
would do no ****ing good whatsoever. **** Harry Potter, just go rent
two ****ing DVDs that aren't produced by Madacy and tell me how a
template from the first disc could be used to produce the menu for the
second.

Have you got it NOW, you tiny-brained imbecile???
 
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