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Black & White

 
 
Winny
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2004
Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black and
white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
white with PC software?
I haven't had any photos (B&W) printed professionally yet (only at home on
my not-so-great printer) and would like some advice on this, as well as any
comments on my choice of camera. The only other thing I have found is, as
with thread just found, that shutter delay (compared to SLR) is something I
will need to adjust to. Even when using the "half depression of the shutter
technique" the camera takes that little bit longer to shoot.

Winny


 
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Marvin Margoshes
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2004

"Winny" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:40e5751a$0$25464$(E-Mail Removed) u...
> Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
> My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
> tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black

and
> white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
> white with PC software?
> I haven't had any photos (B&W) printed professionally yet (only at home on
> my not-so-great printer) and would like some advice on this, as well as

any
> comments on my choice of camera. The only other thing I have found is,

as
> with thread just found, that shutter delay (compared to SLR) is something

I
> will need to adjust to. Even when using the "half depression of the

shutter
> technique" the camera takes that little bit longer to shoot.
>
> Winny


There are various algorithms to convert color images to gray scale (a better
name for B&W). I don't know what algorithm my camera uses, and I couldn't
change it if I did know. My editing software (Paint Shop Pro) lets me set
the algorithm and options, and go back to the original image if I don't like
the result, so I can try a different way. It is extra effort, but to me it
is worthwhile doing.


 
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stan@temple.edu
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2004
Winny <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
> My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
> tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black and
> white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
> white with PC software?


That's entirely up to you to decide. Do some test shots and see how they
turn out.

 
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John McWilliams
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2004
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> Winny <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
>>My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
>>tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black and
>>white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
>>white with PC software?

>
>
> That's entirely up to you to decide. Do some test shots and see how they
> turn out.
>

The question is emminently reasonable, and I'd like to know the
experiences of others, or theory, at the least as to which should
produce the better image.

I would think that shooting in RAW mode and converting to B+W in
Photoshop would yield the best results, but that's just a hypothesis and
the OP probably doesn't have that option.


--
John McWilliams
 
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Skip M
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2004
"John McWilliams" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bdmFc.15733$IQ4.13941@attbi_s02...
> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> > Winny <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >>Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
> >>My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can

anyone
> >>tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black

and
> >>white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
> >>white with PC software?

> >
> >
> > That's entirely up to you to decide. Do some test shots and see how they
> > turn out.
> >

> The question is emminently reasonable, and I'd like to know the
> experiences of others, or theory, at the least as to which should
> produce the better image.
>
> I would think that shooting in RAW mode and converting to B+W in
> Photoshop would yield the best results, but that's just a hypothesis and
> the OP probably doesn't have that option.
>
>
> --
> John McWilliams


Having tried the greyscale option on my wife's E-10, I'd have to say you are
right. We both get better results by digital fiddling in P-shop than with
greyscale direct from the camera.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com


 
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Paul H.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2004

"Winny" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:40e5751a$0$25464$(E-Mail Removed) u...
> Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
> My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
> tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black

and
> white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
> white with PC software?
> I haven't had any photos (B&W) printed professionally yet (only at home on
> my not-so-great printer) and would like some advice on this, as well as

any
> comments on my choice of camera. The only other thing I have found is,

as
> with thread just found, that shutter delay (compared to SLR) is something

I
> will need to adjust to. Even when using the "half depression of the

shutter
> technique" the camera takes that little bit longer to shoot.


It is much, much, much better to shoot in color, then convert to b&w from
within a program such as Photoshop. Most in-camera b&w modes simply
de-saturate the color image, so what you usually wind up with is a rather
aenemic-looking gray luminance map AND you have lost all color information
which might have been used to save the picture.

Worst-case example and solution: suppose you shoot a reddish flower against
a greenish background and the reds and greens have roughly the same
luminance. The camera's b&w mode will give you a picture in which the red
flower almost disappears into the background, since both colors will be
assigned the same gray value. If you work with the color image in
Photoshop, though, you can manipulate the individual color channels in such
a way as to drastically increase the contrast between flower and background.
('Way back when I was shooting B&W film, I would have metered off both
flower and background and seeing they were roughly at the same brightness, I
would have slapped a red filter on my lens to do the same thing I described
doing in Photoshop.)

There are even simpler ways than direct color channel manipulation to
perform effective color-to-B&W conversions: See
http://www.adobe.com/tips/phs8colorbw/main.html for a few examples and you
will be absolutely amazed at the difference between a well-executed
color-to-B&W conversion and a simple de-saturation. In addition, by using
Photoshop to make B&W's, you don't have to lug around a bag full of colored
filters for B&W shots.








 
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Robert Feinman
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2004
In article <40e5751a$0$25464$(E-Mail Removed)> ,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
> My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can anyone
> tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black and
> white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
> white with PC software?
> I haven't had any photos (B&W) printed professionally yet (only at home on
> my not-so-great printer) and would like some advice on this, as well as any
> comments on my choice of camera. The only other thing I have found is, as
> with thread just found, that shutter delay (compared to SLR) is something I
> will need to adjust to. Even when using the "half depression of the shutter
> technique" the camera takes that little bit longer to shoot.
>
> Winny
>
>
>

If you leave it in color mode you'll be able to simulate color filters
used in black and white when editing.
I have a discussion of this technique on my web site. Follow the tips
link on my web page and look for the tip about "obsolete" b&w film.

--
Robert D Feinman
Landscapes, Cityscapes and Panoramic Photographs
http://robertdfeinman.com
mail: (E-Mail Removed)
 
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John McWilliams
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2004
Skip M wrote:

> "John McWilliams" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bdmFc.15733$IQ4.13941@attbi_s02...
>
>>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Winny <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi all. I am new to this group (and digital photography).
>>>>My camera (Olympus C-760) can shoot black and white pictures. Can

>
> anyone
>
>>>>tell me if there is a difference in quality between selecting the black

>
> and
>
>>>>white option, and taking the shot in colour and converting to black and
>>>>white with PC software?
>>>
>>>
>>>That's entirely up to you to decide. Do some test shots and see how they
>>>turn out.
>>>

>>
>>The question is emminently reasonable, and I'd like to know the
>>experiences of others, or theory, at the least as to which should
>>produce the better image.
>>
>>I would think that shooting in RAW mode and converting to B+W in
>>Photoshop would yield the best results, but that's just a hypothesis and
>>the OP probably doesn't have that option.
>>
>>
>>--
>>John McWilliams

>
>
> Having tried the greyscale option on my wife's E-10, I'd have to say you are
> right. We both get better results by digital fiddling in P-shop than with
> greyscale direct from the camera.
>

Thanks, and Paul's and Robert's explanations fill in why this is so.
Someone told me *definitively* (!) that it was better to shoot B+W in
the camera, but intuitively I doubted that. Now I am glad to know the
difference that I may find down the road as per the examples given.

--
John McWilliams
 
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Skip M
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-04-2004
"John McWilliams" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:t2EFc.18357$%_6.2103@attbi_s01...
> Skip M wrote:
>
> > "John McWilliams" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:bdmFc.15733$IQ4.13941@attbi_s02...
> >
> >>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>The question is emminently reasonable, and I'd like to know the
> >>experiences of others, or theory, at the least as to which should
> >>produce the better image.
> >>
> >>I would think that shooting in RAW mode and converting to B+W in
> >>Photoshop would yield the best results, but that's just a hypothesis and
> >>the OP probably doesn't have that option.
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>John McWilliams

> >
> >
> > Having tried the greyscale option on my wife's E-10, I'd have to say you

are
> > right. We both get better results by digital fiddling in P-shop than

with
> > greyscale direct from the camera.
> >

> Thanks, and Paul's and Robert's explanations fill in why this is so.
> Someone told me *definitively* (!) that it was better to shoot B+W in
> the camera, but intuitively I doubted that. Now I am glad to know the
> difference that I may find down the road as per the examples given.
>
> --
> John McWilliams


One of the things I've found effective is to bump the red channel up before
desaturating, and using the "saturation" slider in Hue/Saturation to desat
the image rather than merely hitting "greyscale" or "desaturate."

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com


 
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