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D70 Raw Image Sharpening - some or none

 
 
Don F
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      06-16-2004
There are differing opinions when this topic is searched. Some say none
because (usually) the internal sharpening process performed by the camera is
nowhere as good as the sharpening done in post processing. I have read that
sharpening should be done in several stages rather than one which would be
an argument for allowing some sharpening in the D70. Also, it is said that
the D70 sharpening algorithm is excellent so there is some benefit to using
some sharpening ... but how much?
Someone argued that *all* raw images from a digital camera have a soft
quality and require sharpening to be acceptable.
I just received my D70 and am (obviously) not too high on the digital
learning curve so some direction will be appreciated. I know this may
become clearer as I use my camera but I am a little overwhelmed with
information right now.
TIA
Don F


 
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Rodney Myrvaagnes
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      06-17-2004
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:53:49 -0400, "Don F" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> There are differing opinions when this topic is searched. Some say none
>because (usually) the internal sharpening process performed by the camera is
>nowhere as good as the sharpening done in post processing. I have read that
>sharpening should be done in several stages rather than one which would be
>an argument for allowing some sharpening in the D70. Also, it is said that
>the D70 sharpening algorithm is excellent so there is some benefit to using
>some sharpening ... but how much?
> Someone argued that *all* raw images from a digital camera have a soft
>quality and require sharpening to be acceptable.
> I just received my D70 and am (obviously) not too high on the digital
>learning curve so some direction will be appreciated. I know this may
>become clearer as I use my camera but I am a little overwhelmed with
>information right now.
>TIA
>Don F
>


I am early in the D70 learning curve as well, and am only now
downloading software that will allow me to look at the raw files. I
have been taking all pix storing raw and low-grade JPEG, but all I can
look at is the JPEG.

I understand that in general you never do any sharpening on a raw file
until everything else has been done. And you keep the original raw
file in case you want to do something else with it.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a


Ask not with whom the buck stops . . .
 
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Dennis Petito
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      06-17-2004
I have been using my D70 for about two months now. I only use raw and I do
sharpen in the camera. I have used a mediun low level. I find the camera
sharpening is excellent. You can always add more in PS or Capture.
Next issue will be the tendency to underexpose.........
Good Luck,

Dennis
"Don F" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:2c4Ac.3582$rf7.2261@lakeread02...
> There are differing opinions when this topic is searched. Some say none
> because (usually) the internal sharpening process performed by the camera

is
> nowhere as good as the sharpening done in post processing. I have read

that
> sharpening should be done in several stages rather than one which would be
> an argument for allowing some sharpening in the D70. Also, it is said

that
> the D70 sharpening algorithm is excellent so there is some benefit to

using
> some sharpening ... but how much?
> Someone argued that *all* raw images from a digital camera have a soft
> quality and require sharpening to be acceptable.
> I just received my D70 and am (obviously) not too high on the digital
> learning curve so some direction will be appreciated. I know this may
> become clearer as I use my camera but I am a little overwhelmed with
> information right now.
> TIA
> Don F
>
>



 
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B.A.S.
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2004
Dennis Petito wrote:

> I have been using my D70 for about two months now. I only use raw and I do
> sharpen in the camera. I have used a mediun low level. I find the camera
> sharpening is excellent. You can always add more in PS or Capture.


Or more importantly, you can turn it off in Capture before going into PS.

I shoot jpg+RAW with my D70, and have sharpening on in-camera, just so
my previews are reasonably crisp. For keepers requiring further
processing, I usually remove the sharpening in Capture, and save as a
TIFF for opening in PS (I have an older PS that won't open the RAW
file). When done tweaking in PS, I apply USM there (unless I plan to
submit the pic to a stock agency, in which case no sharpening is applied).

When I finally get around to upgrading to the current PS, this workflow
may change (Capture is very slow on my machine, and a memory hog, so I'd
prefer to take it out of the workflow).

YMMV,

B.A.S.
 
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Fil Ament
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-17-2004
In article <2c4Ac.3582$rf7.2261@lakeread02>, "Don F" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

> There are differing opinions when this topic is searched. Some say none
> because (usually) the internal sharpening process performed by the camera is
> nowhere as good as the sharpening done in post processing. I have read that
> sharpening should be done in several stages rather than one which would be
> an argument for allowing some sharpening in the D70. Also, it is said that
> the D70 sharpening algorithm is excellent so there is some benefit to using
> some sharpening ... but how much?
> Someone argued that *all* raw images from a digital camera have a soft
> quality and require sharpening to be acceptable.
> I just received my D70 and am (obviously) not too high on the digital
> learning curve so some direction will be appreciated. I know this may
> become clearer as I use my camera but I am a little overwhelmed with
> information right now.
> TIA
> Don F
>
>


Well you have the camera, why not try it out and evaluate it yourself?
Under your own set of circumstances ?
--
The joy of a forever Unknown Artist is the mystery and potential
of a Blank canvas.

This is a provision for the mind's eye.
I see the lights go on, but realize of course no one's home.
 
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Paul Howland
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      06-17-2004
Don F wrote:
> There are differing opinions when this topic is searched. Some say none
> because (usually) the internal sharpening process performed by the camera is
> nowhere as good as the sharpening done in post processing. I have read that
> sharpening should be done in several stages rather than one which would be
> an argument for allowing some sharpening in the D70. Also, it is said that
> the D70 sharpening algorithm is excellent so there is some benefit to using
> some sharpening ... but how much?
> Someone argued that *all* raw images from a digital camera have a soft
> quality and require sharpening to be acceptable.
> I just received my D70 and am (obviously) not too high on the digital
> learning curve so some direction will be appreciated. I know this may
> become clearer as I use my camera but I am a little overwhelmed with
> information right now.
> TIA
> Don F


Raw images aren't sharpened within the camera at all - that's the nature
of raw - the Bayer demosaicing hasn't even been performed, so the camera
can't sharpen the image! However, the Nikon Capture software does read
the sharpening setting on the camera and apply that level of sharpening
to the raw image in software on your computer automatically. You can of
course, override the camera setting in Nikon Capture and apply whatever
sharpening you want.

Most advise to use Low or None for sharpening in Capture, then do any
post processing in Photoshop, then apply the exact sharpening you want
using the Unsharp Mask as your final processing step before saving the JPEG.

Hope this helps,

Paul
 
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Don F
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      06-17-2004
"Paul Howland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:40d1261c$0$205$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Raw images aren't sharpened within the camera at all - that's the nature
> of raw - the Bayer demosaicing hasn't even been performed, so the camera
> can't sharpen the image! However, the Nikon Capture software does read
> the sharpening setting on the camera and apply that level of sharpening
> to the raw image in software on your computer automatically. You can of
> course, override the camera setting in Nikon Capture and apply whatever
> sharpening you want.
>
> Most advise to use Low or None for sharpening in Capture, then do any
> post processing in Photoshop, then apply the exact sharpening you want
> using the Unsharp Mask as your final processing step before saving the

JPEG.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Paul

-------------------------
I don't have the Nikon Capture software and some here suggest that it is
not necessary. I am trying to establish a good workflow process.
What you say is of great interest. You say that the sharpening settings
in the camera are not implemented into the camera raw data output and only
the camera sharpening setting is preserved. The "shooting data" provided by
Nikon View software shows "sharpening: auto" (which is my present sharpening
setting). What does that mean to viewing software or PS when the picture is
loaded into these programs?
I guess my basic question is: "When I load a raw (NEF) file into PS (and
make no changes to the NEF file in the pop-up window while loading) what
camera settings are transferred to PS at this stage of processing?"
When I view a picture on my monitor using any viewing utility (Windows
viewer, Nikon View, or PS viewer) am I seeing the effects of the camera
sharpening setting? At what stage of the workflow process are the effects
of the camera settings implemented from an NEF file?
Thanks for your informative reply, Paul.
Don F



 
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Don F
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      06-17-2004
"Rodney Myrvaagnes" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
<snip>
> I am early in the D70 learning curve as well, and am only now
> downloading software that will allow me to look at the raw files. I
> have been taking all pix storing raw and low-grade JPEG, but all I can
> look at is the JPEG.

.............
> Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

------------------------
Rodney, download and install the latest Nikon View software from the
Nikon site and you will be able to view NEFs. Also, plug-ins are
automatically provided for PhotoShop and PS Elements.
Don F


 
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adm
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      06-17-2004

"Don F" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Z%eAc.3656$rf7.2052@lakeread02...
> "Rodney Myrvaagnes" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
> <snip>
> > I am early in the D70 learning curve as well, and am only now
> > downloading software that will allow me to look at the raw files. I
> > have been taking all pix storing raw and low-grade JPEG, but all I can
> > look at is the JPEG.

> ............
> > Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

> ------------------------
> Rodney, download and install the latest Nikon View software from the
> Nikon site and you will be able to view NEFs. Also, plug-ins are
> automatically provided for PhotoShop and PS Elements.


One caveat to this though......

If you install Nikon View it sometimes seems to overwrtite the existing
Photoshop Camera RAW plug in. As the Nikon plug in is far more limited than
the PS one, you need to make sure to copy the correct PS RAW plug in back
after the install.


 
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Guy Scharf
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      06-17-2004
"Don F" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I guess my basic question is: "When I load a raw (NEF) file
> into PS (and
> make no changes to the NEF file in the pop-up window while
> loading) what camera settings are transferred to PS at this stage
> of processing?"
> When I view a picture on my monitor using any viewing utility
> (Windows
> viewer, Nikon View, or PS viewer) am I seeing the effects of the
> camera sharpening setting? At what stage of the workflow process
> are the effects of the camera settings implemented from an NEF
> file?


When you view a NEF file in Nikon View (NV) at 100%, the in-camera
settings are applied. When you view at a smaller resolution, I'm not
sure. The image is reprocessed when you increase to 100%.

I suspect the Windows Viewer is showing a thumbnail that is kept in, I
think, the EXIF data. The Windows Viewer shows only the thumbnail; it
will not show a larger version as it will for a JPEG image etc.

Nikon Capture (NC) applies the in-camera settings. Nikon Capture
allows you to change those settings and then renders the image again
with the revised settings. NC is a very powerful program.

I do not have PS so can only quote what I have read. My understanding
is that Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) ignores most in-camera settings and
applies its own defaults. You can also use the plug-in from Nikon to
read a NEF into PS. That should honor the settings (it does when used
with Paint Shop Pro anyway) but does not give you the opportunity to
alter most of them as NC does.

I primarily use NV to browse the images and NC for initial editing of
white balance, cropping, etc. One of the advantages of using NC for
that editing is that it saves all the adjustments in the NEF file but
presumably does not alter the raw pixel data. I use Paint Shop Pro for
dodging, burning, blending, rotating, and similar modifications of the
image. To simplify workflow, my shooting goal is to be able to make
all necessary modifications in NC and not have to use a later editing
program.

HTH.

Guy
 
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