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Frick... Europe-spec CP990 is refused for repairs in the US

 
 
Jeremy
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      06-01-2004

"nixjunk" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> It would be understandable to refuse warranty repair but to refuse repair

out
> of warranty where a customer is actually going to pay you to fix it is
> ridiculous and extremely unprofessional.


Not at all. Nikon USA has invested much in their advertising, parts
inventories, training and salaries and benefits for their service
technicians. Part of the price they charge for the cameras that they import
includes this cost.

The purchaser of a legally-imported Nikon camera has paid their share of
this expense. The gray-market purchaser has not. It would be a slap in the
face to the legitimate Nikon USA purchaser for interlopers to have access to
service--whether that service is in or out of warranty. It would also serve
to encourage more purchasers to buy using the gray-market route, since they
could buy repairs from Nikon USA if they needed them--just like the
legitimate Nikon USA customers.

There is no reason--legal or moral--that obligates legitimate importers to
service equipment that was procured through unauthorized channels. The
purchaser may have the legal right to bypass the official importer, but he
has absolutely no expectation of support from the legitimate importer if his
product breaks down.

By the way, Nikon USA WILL repair items legitimately purchased from official
Nikon importers outside the USA, IF the customer actually purchased them in
the countries served by those legitimate importers. The ban on repairs
covers only gray-market goods (i.e., goods imported into the USA by an
importer other than Nikon USA).



 
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Jeremy
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      06-01-2004

"Steven M. Scharf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsy2uc.14837$(E-Mail Removed) hlink.net...
>
> "Andrew Koenig" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ZXOtc.85006$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Very strange. You weren't trying for a warranty repair--obviously, so

> why
> > > wouldn't they perform repairs for money? You could have bought it

while
> on
> > > vacation in Europe!

> >
> > Nikon has a long-standing policy of not knowingly repairing gray-market
> > items, either in or out of warranty. If you bought it while on vacation

> in
> > Europe, you would have a receipt that proves that you purchased it in

> person
> > from an authorized dealer. In that case, Nikon USA would repair it.

>
> Well I guess I won't be buying Nikon items! I'd be worried about needing a
> Nikon U.S. item repaired while I'm out of the U.S., and having the Nikon
> repair in some other country having the same policy.
>


An AUTHORIZED Nikon importer in another country WILL repair items you bought
in the US from Nikon USA.

The ban on repairs covers gray-market items only.

When I bought my Pentax gear, 30 years ago, when the official US importer
was Honeywell Photographic, US Customs used to scratch off the name "Asahi
Pentax" on cameras that were imported into the US from non-Honeywell
sources! In other words, if you tried to bypass Honeywell, you ended up
with a defaced camera! (Honeywell was the registered US trademark owner).

That is not done anymore, but importers still can decline to get involved
with equipment that they did not import. It is only right. They have no
obligation to support merchandise from which they made no profit.


 
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Jeremy
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      06-01-2004

"ZeeExSixAre" <(E-Mail Removed)> >
> Do you think I should try to have an authorized dealer send it in for
> repair?
>


You should send it to the non-official importer that you bought it from.
They are the ones responsible for servicing you.

I believe that Nikon USA checks the serial numbers on cameras sent in for
repair, to see if they were legitimately-imported. I suspect that they will
decline to accept your item for repair, regardless of how you try to sneak
it in.


 
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Charlie Self
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      06-01-2004
Jeremy writes:

>
>An AUTHORIZED Nikon importer in another country WILL repair items you bought
>in the US from Nikon USA.
>
>The ban on repairs covers gray-market items only.
>


Does that mean Nikon makes no profit on gray market items? Because if they do,
refusing repair for any reason is hypocrisy. Nikon USA may not make a buck, but
their parent company does, and Nikon USA, or whatever company, will make its
normal profit on the repairs, so no one is asking for special support here,
just a reasonable way of doing business.


Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun



 
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Steven M. Scharf
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      06-02-2004
"Jeremy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Fx5vc.34082$(E-Mail Removed) hlink.net...

<snip>

> By the way, Nikon USA WILL repair items legitimately purchased from

official
> Nikon importers outside the USA, IF the customer actually purchased them

in
> the countries served by those legitimate importers. The ban on repairs
> covers only gray-market goods (i.e., goods imported into the USA by an
> importer other than Nikon USA).


I'd worry that something I bought in Europe or Asia would be refused for
repair by Nikon U.S.A., even though it was not a grey-market product. How
are you supposed to prove that it was purchased in Europe, rather than
grey-market in the U.S.? What if you can't find your receipt?

I'm not sure how things are in other parts of the world, but in the U.S.
there is no difference in the warranty for a product purchased from an
"authorized dealer" versus an "unauthorized dealer," provided the product is
not grey market. The Magnusson-Moss act makes it perfectly clear that the
manufacturer provides the warranty, the dealer has nothing to do with it (it
is up to the manufacturer to control the distribution of their products, and
not up to the consumer to figure out which dealer is authorized or not).

What if I purchase a Nikon camera or lens in Europe, and Nikon U.S.A. says
that I bought it from an "illegitimate" importer?" I would probably not know
if a reseller is "illegitimate." Some of the biggest U.S. retailers of U.S.
digital cameras are not authorized dealers. It's just too much
responsibility on the consumer, when it should be the manufacturer's
responsibility to control distribution; after all, they created the price
disparity.

I'd worry about being on vacation in Europe and needing a repair, but not
having my receipt with me (who carries their receipts on vacation?). By the
same token, if I was from outside the U.S. I'd be concerned about buying a
Nikon product in the U.S., and trying to get service in Europe, or trying to
get service in the U.S. for a product I bought in Europe.

It's very messy. Best bet is to avoid Nikon entirely. I'm glad that this
situation was brought to our attention. I've added this warning to my web
site, http://digitalcamerashortlist.com under "Warranty Issues when Out of
the Country of Purchase, and Grey Market Repairs."

I have read that Canon does honor the warranty on grey-market cameras, so I
presume that they will repair them out of warranty as well. I have also read
that they don't honor the warranty on grey-market cameras but are happy to
repair them out-of-warranty. I have never heard of Canon refusing a repair
completely.

I have had a Canon grey-market film SLR repaired, out-of-warranty, at a
Canon authorized repair center. BTW, I chose the grey-market Canon film SLR
because the U.S. model was de-featured (EOS5-QD, versus A2E), not because of
price. The independent repair place was great. They repaired the camera
while I waited, for a reasonable price. The only problem they had was
entering the repair into their database, because the model wasn't there, but
they just used the closest U.S. model.

What I would advise to the original poster, is that they look at:
http://nikonusa.com/fileuploads/pdfs...epair_list.pdf and find an
independent Nikon repair facility that is CoolPix trained. The place that I
had my out-of-warranty grey-market Canon film camera repaired is also on
that list as a Nikon repair center. These places will likely be happy to
repair the camera for a fee.

Nikon in Japan should put a stop to these shenanigans, as it is hurting
their reputation. Their market share is already slipping, they don't need an
uppity U.S. division hurting them over such a non-issue.


 
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Jeremy
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      06-02-2004

"Charlie Self" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Does that mean Nikon makes no profit on gray market items? Because if they

do,
> refusing repair for any reason is hypocrisy. Nikon USA may not make a

buck, but
> their parent company does, and Nikon USA, or whatever company, will make

its
> normal profit on the repairs, so no one is asking for special support here


You are missing the point.

It is not about Nikon USA declining to make a buck. They have the
unquestioned right to elect whether to accept or decline this gray-market
repair business.

If they accepted it, they would be hurting their sales and helping their
gray-market competitors. If anyone could buy a camera or lens from a
gray-market source, then turn to Nikon USA for support, that would be a big
incentive for purchasers to bypass Nikon USA for the purchase. It would
also mean that those loyal Nikon USA customers would have to pay an even
greater premium for buying legitimately, because they would be supporting
the parts/warranty/service technicians that would be available to
anyone--including the gray-market purchaser that paid not one cent for the
availability of these services.

Nikon turns away some business by declining gray market repairs, but it is
in their interest to do so. The purchaser of gray-market goods paid less
for his products, and he took the risk that he would receive no support from
the official importer. That's life.


 
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Jeremy
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-02-2004

"Steven M. Scharf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hQevc.20384$(E-Mail Removed) k.net...
>
> I'd worry that something I bought in Europe or Asia would be refused for
> repair by Nikon U.S.A., even though it was not a grey-market product. How
> are you supposed to prove that it was purchased in Europe, rather than
> grey-market in the U.S.? What if you can't find your receipt?
>


You are confusing the issue. If you can't find your receipt, and thus
cannot establish when you purchased the equipment, you have no right to
demand warranty service. I believe that most manufacturers offer purchasers
the ability to register their purchases by mail or by Internet, making it
unnecessary for them to retain their receipts.


> I'm not sure how things are in other parts of the world, but in the U.S.
> there is no difference in the warranty for a product purchased from an
> "authorized dealer" versus an "unauthorized dealer," provided the product

is
> not grey market.


But this thread was discussing GRAY MARKET GOODS. Official importers are
NOT required to fix GRAY MARKET GOODS.

The Magnusson-Moss act makes it perfectly clear that the manufacturer
provides the warranty, the dealer has nothing to do with it (it
> is up to the manufacturer to control the distribution of their products,

and
> not up to the consumer to figure out which dealer is authorized or not).
>


So send your gray market Nikon back to Japan. You STILL have no legal RIGHT
to demand service on a GRAY MARKET NIKON from NIKON USA.

Your comments suggest that the buyer of gray market Nikons is somehow being
swindled by Nikon USA. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nikon USA
has NO RESPONSIBILITY OR OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to take care of any unit that
they did not import. They DO support units purchased from other official
importers in other countries, because they have some reciprocal arrangement
with them. Gray-market goods do not fit this category.

>What if I purchase a Nikon camera or lens in Europe, and Nikon U.S.A. says
> that I bought it from an "illegitimate" importer?" I would probably not

know
> if a reseller is "illegitimate."


Oh, come on! You don't know if your purchase is GRAY MARKET?? Give me a
break!

That's like saying "Officer, you say I was going 90 MPH in a 45 MPH zone?
Gee, I didn't know I was speeding!"

Some of the biggest U.S. retailers of U.S.
> digital cameras are not authorized dealers. It's just too much
> responsibility on the consumer, when it should be the manufacturer's
> responsibility to control distribution; after all, they created the price
> disparity.
>


So call your congressman if you think the law should be changed to impose a
burden upon an importer to support products with which it had no connection.

Stop playing dumb.


> I'd worry about being on vacation in Europe and needing a repair, but not
> having my receipt with me (who carries their receipts on vacation?). By

the
> same token, if I was from outside the U.S. I'd be concerned about buying a
> Nikon product in the U.S., and trying to get service in Europe, or trying

to
> get service in the U.S. for a product I bought in Europe.
>


You are being an alarmist. Legitimate Nikon customers have no problem
obtaining warranty service on legitimately-purchased products, and I suspect
that you know it. Why are you trying to create suspicion? We all know
Nikon, but who are YOU?


> It's very messy. Best bet is to avoid Nikon entirely.


Best bet is to avoid bad advice from YOU entirely!


I'm glad that this situation was brought to our attention. I've added this
warning to my web
> site, http://digitalcamerashortlist.com under "Warranty Issues when Out of
> the Country of Purchase, and Grey Market Repairs."
>


Oh, so that is your objective: to publicize your web site! If that advice
represents the kind stuff you post, I don't think I'll be visiting it.


> I have read that Canon does honor the warranty on grey-market cameras, so

I
> presume that they will repair them out of warranty as well.


Let's not presume anything. The point I was making--the ONLY point I was
making--is that NO IMPORTER HAS AN OBLIGATION TO SUPPORT PRODUCTS THAT IT
DID NOT IMPORT. If Canon, in its own good judgment, elects to repair
gray-market Canons, I have no problem with their decision.

I have also read
> that they don't honor the warranty on grey-market cameras but are happy to
> repair them out-of-warranty.


So what does that have to do with Nikon USA's decisions?


I have never heard of Canon refusing a repair
> completely.
>
>


Are you an expert? Does the fact that YOU never heard of it mean that we
should presume that your belief is not factual?

I have had a Canon grey-market film SLR repaired, out-of-warranty, at a
> Canon authorized repair center. BTW, I chose the grey-market Canon film

SLR
> because the U.S. model was de-featured (EOS5-QD, versus A2E), not because

of
> price.


Yes, but an INDEPENDENT repair facility can set its own policies. You are
confusing people with your comments. We are discussing whether NIKON USA is
required to provide repairs on equipment that it did not import, not whether
an independent shop may provide repairs.


> What I would advise to the original poster, is that they look at:
> Nikon in Japan should put a stop to these shenanigans, as it is hurting
> their reputation. Their market share is already slipping, they don't need

an
> uppity U.S. division hurting them over such a non-issue.
>


You are either being inflammatory or you are some kind of a nut.


 
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Charlie Self
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-02-2004
Jeremy responds:

>You are missing the point.
>
>It is not about Nikon USA declining to make a buck. They have the
>unquestioned right to elect whether to accept or decline this gray-market
>repair business.
>
>If they accepted it, they would be hurting their sales and helping their
>gray-market competitors.


Other makers do it, and actually seem to do better than Nikon in sales.

>greater premium for buying legitimately, because they would be supporting
>the parts/warranty/service technicians that would be available to
>anyone--including the gray-market purchaser that paid not one cent for the
>availability of these services.


That's bullshit. NikonUSA is charging enough to pay the bill on all of these,
plus make a profit, and that wouldn't change one iota.

>Nikon turns away some business by declining gray market repairs, but it is
>in their interest to do so. The purchaser of gray-market goods paid less
>for his products, and he took the risk that he would receive no support from
>the official importer. That's life.


Nikon turns away...ayup. I agree. I am going to shortly be purchasing a DSLR to
replace my current digital camera. It will not be a Nikon because I disagree
with their stance, and your interpretation of it.

Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun



 
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Charlie Self
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-02-2004
Jeremy responds:

> The Magnusson-Moss act makes it perfectly clear that the manufacturer
>provides the warranty, the dealer has nothing to do with it (it
>> is up to the manufacturer to control the distribution of their products,

>and
>> not up to the consumer to figure out which dealer is authorized or not).
>>

>
>So send your gray market Nikon back to Japan. You STILL have no legal RIGHT
>to demand service on a GRAY MARKET NIKON from NIKON USA.
>
>Your comments suggest that the buyer of gray market Nikons is somehow being
>swindled by Nikon USA. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nikon USA
>has NO RESPONSIBILITY OR OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to take care of any unit that


The swindling is being done by Nikon, period. They produce more cameras than
can be sold in authorized arenas and do not control distribution properly,
depending on the grey market to take excess stock off their hands. Then their
various distributors hit customers of the parent company--which all purchasers
of new Nikons are--with an "up yours" when it comes time for repairs. Shipping
a camera to Japan is not a workable solution unless time is of no importance
whatsoever.

>
>Oh, come on! You don't know if your purchase is GRAY MARKET?? Give me a
>break!
>
>That's like saying "Officer, you say I was going 90 MPH in a 45 MPH zone?
>Gee, I didn't know I was speeding!"


Analogy sucks. It is not that difficult to pose as an authorized dealer in
anything when a customer is unfamiliar with the terrain, whether it be product
terrain or country terrain. That is the fault of the authorizing company.

Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun



 
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Jeremy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-02-2004

"Charlie Self" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> The swindling is being done by Nikon, period. They produce more cameras

than
> can be sold in authorized arenas and do not control distribution properly,
> depending on the grey market to take excess stock off their hands. Then

their
> various distributors hit customers of the parent company--which all

purchasers
> of new Nikons are--with an "up yours" when it comes time for repairs.

Shipping
> a camera to Japan is not a workable solution unless time is of no

importance
> whatsoever.
>


Gray market was not an issue in the US until the case went to the Supreme
Court, and they ruled that merchandise could legally be imported by other
than authorized channels, but the it imposed no obligation upon the official
importer in the way of parts, service or warranty repairs.

You seem to want to have your cake and to eat it, too. You want to not pay
for the increased overhead that the official importer must bear (and must
ultimately pass down to the buyer), yet you want to receive the benefits
that accrue to customers of the official importer.

Whether you like it or not, the rules are clear: if you want parts and
service from the OFFICIAL importer, you should buy officially-imported
goods.

In the case of Nikon USA, I feel certain that they would prefer that ALL
Nikon equipment imported into this country come through them. From their
vantage point, the huge investment that they've made in brand recognition,
advertising, parts inventories and availability of trained technicians, is
being siphoned off by interlopers, who have made ZERO investment in any of
these things.

If you are so concerned about the fact that gray market purchasers receive
no support from Nikon USA, perhaps you should be warning users of the
drawbacks of dealing with unauthorized import channels--not complaining
about Nikon USA. You have put the cart before the horse. Nikon USA is not
the culprit, the gray market importer is.

The consumer, at least in the USA, has a choice. Full service at a higher
price or questionable support at a somewhat lower price. With that freedom
of choice comes the responsibility to determine whether an item is US or
gray market, before the purchase is made. This is not difficult to
determine, as the warranty card clearly states whether Nikon USA warrants
the purchase. Also, I believe that the serial numbers of
officially-imported Nikons start with "US." (I am not a Nikon user, and I
may be incorrect about this).

Nikon USA is merely asserting its legal and moral rights by declining to
work on products that it did not import. The REAL problem is that the
retailer that sells the gear is not always candid with the buyer regarding
this. If you want to recommend that buyers not purchase Nikon gear because
of this, I do not believe that very many people will act on your advice.


 
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