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D-SLR Sensor Resolution and Sensor Size Comparison Size Matters!

 
 
George Preddy
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      05-15-2004
"Bart van der Wolf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<40a54f20$0$36169$(E-Mail Removed)4all.nl>...
> "Robertwgross" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Steve, it certainly seems to me that there is a new candidate for Chief
> > Technology Officer of the Nordic Group. (G.P.)

>
> He's already employed full-time:
> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilber...-20040511.html


Hey Dilbert, here something really funny... Foveon's 16MP prototype
was monochromatic, it had 16M monochromatic sensors arranged in a 2D
pattern. You would have to classify it as 16 full color MPs, because
you could put a color mosiac in front of it.

Now that is truly hillarious.
 
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Steven Scharf
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      05-15-2004
"dylan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<X85pc.368$cJ4.330@newsfe1-win>...
> "when shooting at F2.8 with a wideangle on the 1Ds, the corners
> will have very little actual image information. A very good F8 shot with
> a 6MP camera might contain more image detail in the corners."
>
> Can you explain a bit more, are you saying a 35mm frame doesn't have detail
> in the corners ?


The "advantage" of a smaller sensor is that it is shooting through the
part of the lens with the least aberration. Of course you're paying a
big price for this, because the smaller the sensor, the larger the
crop factor. So if you really want wide angle, you'd have to go to say
a 12-20 lens, rather than say a 17-35, which be prohibitively
expensive.

The reason why the professional cameras use full-frame sensors is
because the pros won't put up with these crop factors. They already
know about the issues at the edges, and compensate for them, the CA
problem is not unique to digital.

Canon EOS-1D Mark II is a compromise for a lower cost camera, but
nothing like the compromises on the Sigma SD10 or the Olympus E1, both
solidly in the consumer D-SLR category.

If there is a good thing about the smaller sensors, it's that you can
use lower quality lenses with less problems, which of course is a good
thing for consumer level cameras. Olympus and Sigma don't have any
professional grade lenses, so don't expect full frame D-SLRs from
either of them.

Sigma is building a new model with a full frame 13.5Mp Kodak sensor,
but it uses the Canon lens mount, so you can use the professional
Canon L lenses. This is being sold by Kodak as the DCS-SLR/c. It has
potential, and it's much less than the EOS-1Ds, but the Nikon version
had noise issues at higher ISO settings. It's a good strategy for
Kodak, especially for studio photographers who generally have been
using either Canon or Nikon film cameras, and for studio photographers
who were using the original Foveon studio camera (Canon mount). In a
studio, you're generally not shooting at higher ISO settings anyway,
and the Kodak DCS/c is about 1/2 the price of a Canon EOS-1Ds.
 
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Dave Martindale
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      05-15-2004
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Steven Scharf) writes:

>The "advantage" of a smaller sensor is that it is shooting through the
>part of the lens with the least aberration. Of course you're paying a
>big price for this, because the smaller the sensor, the larger the
>crop factor.


Not only that. If a sensor is 1/K the size of the 35 frame, you need to
enlarge the image you get by an additional factor of K to get the same
size print, which means that the lens resolution *also* needs to be a
factor of K better just to keep the print resolution the same. Thus
the center of the image needs to be quite a bit sharper than the edges
for this to even break even.

Dave
 
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George Preddy
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      05-15-2004
Paul Howland <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<40a5a7a5$0$72202$(E-Mail Removed)>.. .
> George Preddy wrote:
>
> > The smaller the sensor the better, provided it takes 35mm format
> > lenses, because optically the lens is dramatically better in the
> > middle. Wiegh that consideration with the total sensor count,
> > obviously optical pixels is better. That is why Sigma, having both
> > the highest number of optical pixels (interpolation is meaningless,
> > only optical MPs matter) and the smallest sensor size, is several
> > steps ahead of anything offered by any other manufacturer.
> >
> > The Kodak 14n (3.3MP optical; 13.5MP interpolated) has almost as many
> > MPs as the Sigma SDs (3.43 optical; 13.72MP interpolated), but it is
> > full frame which is makes the optical quality totally unacceptable by
> > comparison. Assuming the same MPs even the optical resolution over
> > the respective image areas, croppers are dramatically better cameras.
> >
> > IOWs, Sigma builds the only pro quality DSLRs currently available.

>
> Haha what nonsense George. Keep 'em coming.


You didn't know that shooting center glass was better? Why do you
guys post here? Is there no Bayer user with any knowledge of
photography?

> Still no example
> photographs of your own for us George? A scan from a disposable camera
> would do, if that's all you have.


I've posted hundreds, isn't that enough?
 
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George Preddy
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      05-15-2004
(E-Mail Removed) (George Preddy) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> "Bart van der Wolf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<40a54f20$0$36169$(E-Mail Removed)4all.nl>...
> > "Robertwgross" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Steve, it certainly seems to me that there is a new candidate for Chief
> > > Technology Officer of the Nordic Group. (G.P.)

> >
> > He's already employed full-time:
> > http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilber...-20040511.html

>
> Hey Dilbert, here something really funny... Foveon's 16MP prototype
> was monochromatic, it had 16M monochromatic sensors arranged in a 2D
> pattern. You would have to classify it as 16 full color MPs, because
> you could put a color mosiac in front of it.
>
> Now that is truly hillarious.


I can say that again.
 
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Bart van der Wolf
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      05-15-2004

"George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> (E-Mail Removed) (George Preddy) wrote in message

news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
SNIP
> > Now that is truly hillarious.

>
> I can say that again.


Talking to yourself? Why?

Bart

 
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Steve Moody
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      05-16-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)> , George
Preddy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> That is optical MPs, the SDs both natively output 13.72MP at 75%
> interpolated.


Why does Sigma not know that the sd9 is a 13.72 mega pixel camera?
Why is it that we sigma and everyone but you think that the sd9 is a
3.43 mega pixel camera? Could it be that you are clueless?

<http://www.sigmaphoto.com/html/Cameras_sd9.htm>

 
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Steve Moody
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      05-16-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed) >, George
Preddy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Looks like another person was fooled by Bayer manufacturers and didn't
> know. Bayer sensors were interpolated.


The Bayer sensor in the Digital Rebel has 6.3 million effective
pixels.

<http://www.canoneos.com/digitalrebel/specs/index.html>

The Foveon sensor in the sd9 has 3.43 million effective pixels.

<http://www.sigmaphoto.com/html/Cameras_sd9.htm>

Buy a clue. Steal a clue. Borrow and clue. Copy a clue. Make a
clue. Whatever you do, George, GET A CLUE.

To get 13.73 mega pixels from the sd9, the image has to be
interpolated.

 
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George Preddy
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      05-16-2004
"Bart van der Wolf" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<40a65694$0$64453$(E-Mail Removed)4all.nl>...
> "George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > (E-Mail Removed) (George Preddy) wrote in message

> news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> SNIP
> > > Now that is truly hillarious.

> >
> > I can say that again.

>
> Talking to yourself? Why?\


You are terrified to touch this subject, it so clearly proves you've
been wrong from the start. I'll say it again...

Foveon's prototype 16MP fully monochrome sensor would have been called
a "full color 16MP" sensor by Bayer DSLR manufacturers--simply because
they would place a plastic mosiac filter in front of it to block 67%
of the light.
 
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JPS@no.komm
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      05-16-2004
In message <(E-Mail Removed) >,
(E-Mail Removed) (George Preddy) wrote:

>Foveon's prototype 16MP fully monochrome sensor would have been called
>a "full color 16MP" sensor by Bayer DSLR manufacturers


No, it would be called a color *camera* if it had a CFA over it.

>--simply because
>they would place a plastic mosiac filter in front of it to block 67%
>of the light.


First of all, they don't block that much light. Secondly, your beloved
SD9 blocks 70% of the light by not having microlenses. This is worse
than losing light quantity; you are losing spatial information, not just
sensitivity.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <(E-Mail Removed)>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><

 
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