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Re: Finally, the Minolta DSLR

 
 
Alan Browne
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      02-12-2004
Elie A Shammas wrote:

> Hold on to you Maxxum lenses.
>
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=7624563
>
> Elie




Again, you beat me to the punch Elie. But here's another link:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04...um7digital.asp

To all the Minolta Faithful who held out through the Canon storm,
congratulations! The Maxxum 7 is a great platform for Minolta to start
their DSLR series. I hope they also come out with a more rugged version
and get into pace on the Mpix. It won't be out until the fall, but
that's okay... in any case I'll wait a few months after to see how well
it rates and hope that Minolta do a "9" digital too... I prefer metal
bodies.

Antishake too!

It would appear (based on the 6 Mpix number) that they likely using the
same Sony chip as the Nikon D100. I just hope that the ISO numbers are
better than the Nikon.

The challenge to Minolta will really be to get Canon 10D class images
out of the camera. I'm still not convinced they will manage it, but I
sure hope so.

To all the naysayers, consider yourself rasberried!!!!

Cheers,A
Alan

--
e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

 
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PhotoMan
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      02-12-2004

"Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:K_NWb.2434$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Elie A Shammas wrote:
>
> > Hold on to you Maxxum lenses.
> >
> > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=7624563
> >
> > Elie

>
>
>
> Again, you beat me to the punch Elie. But here's another link:
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04...um7digital.asp
>
> To all the Minolta Faithful who held out through the Canon storm,
> congratulations! The Maxxum 7 is a great platform for Minolta to start
> their DSLR series. I hope they also come out with a more rugged version
> and get into pace on the Mpix. It won't be out until the fall, but
> that's okay... in any case I'll wait a few months after to see how well
> it rates and hope that Minolta do a "9" digital too... I prefer metal
> bodies.
>
> Antishake too!
>
> It would appear (based on the 6 Mpix number) that they likely using the
> same Sony chip as the Nikon D100. I just hope that the ISO numbers are
> better than the Nikon.
>
> The challenge to Minolta will really be to get Canon 10D class images
> out of the camera. I'm still not convinced they will manage it, but I
> sure hope so.
>
> To all the naysayers, consider yourself rasberried!!!!


The announcement sure doesn't hurt K/M, but 9 months is a long time to wait.
They're at the station, but the fast trains are already way out front.


 
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Alan Browne
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-12-2004
PhotoMan wrote:

>
> The announcement sure doesn't hurt K/M, but 9 months is a long time to wait.
> They're at the station, but the fast trains are already way out front.



9 months is a long time to wait? If you consider the Canon D30 as a
reference point, it will be 4 years from that point to the sales release
of the Maxxum 7 D! The remaining 7 to 9 months to get there is of no
real consequence. Further:

1. It's not like I'm dying to get a digital. I shoot slide and negative
film hapilly on my two film bodies. Digital does not, and will not
soon, compare to a projected slide in the slightest. Further, I have
the Minolta DSE 5400 scanner that's left everyone else in the dust.

2. Minolta held out on even talking about a DSLR all through the Konica
merger, scaring the crap out of Minolta owners. There was a real
(perceived anyway) danger of them dropping SLR's altogether...

3. I have 6 Minolta lenses (plus TC's) with a purchase value in excess
of US$10K. If Minolta had dropped SLR's, these would have had a rapidly
declining resale value. So anything they do right to protect those
lenses (which will likely outlast the digital cameras by far, in any
case) is very good news to me.

4. Minolta do not have the development budget for SLR's that Canon and
Nikon do. I am just as happy that they conserved assets and learned
from the rest of the manufacturers and the market. In the meantime,
although outweighed by general customer delight, Canon have PO'd a
number of customers with the serial releases of ever improving bodies
resulting in premature devaluation of prior versions. Given my
acquisition propensity, I have been pocketbook blessed by Minolta's
tardiness.

Cheers,

Alan
--
e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

 
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Simon Stanmore
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-12-2004

"Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:K_NWb.2434$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Again, you beat me to the punch Elie. But here's another link:
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04...um7digital.asp
>
> To all the Minolta Faithful who held out through the Canon storm,
> congratulations! The Maxxum 7 is a great platform for Minolta to start
> their DSLR series. I hope they also come out with a more rugged version
> and get into pace on the Mpix. It won't be out until the fall, but
> that's okay... in any case I'll wait a few months after to see how well
> it rates and hope that Minolta do a "9" digital too... I prefer metal
> bodies.
>
> Antishake too!
>
> It would appear (based on the 6 Mpix number) that they likely using the
> same Sony chip as the Nikon D100. I just hope that the ISO numbers are
> better than the Nikon.
>
> The challenge to Minolta will really be to get Canon 10D class images
> out of the camera. I'm still not convinced they will manage it, but I
> sure hope so.
>
> To all the naysayers, consider yourself rasberried!!!!
>
> Cheers,A
> Alan



The anti-shake's a really great feature ... even if it's not quite the 3
stop saviour that is Canon's best IS lens, you're getting it on all lenses,
new and old. I really hope this cam's a great success and prompts other
mfr's - and eventually Canon - to adopt the same 'in-body' IS. I'd be
surprised if the images are a match to a 10D's or S2's at 100% for noise
levels but in all other respects they'll likely to be pretty much on par.
The noise thing's badly over-scrutinised anyway - even at 18x12" a D100
capture is effectively noiseless. Get a DSLR like this Alan and that scanner
of yours will become an desktop ornament ; )
--
Simon
http://www.pbase.com/phoenikz


 
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Alan Browne
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-12-2004
Simon Stanmore wrote:

>
>
> The anti-shake's a really great feature ... even if it's not quite the 3
> stop saviour that is Canon's best IS lens, you're getting it on all lenses,
> new and old. I really hope this cam's a great success and prompts other
> mfr's - and eventually Canon - to adopt the same 'in-body' IS. I'd be
> surprised if the images are a match to a 10D's or S2's at 100% for noise


Given that it appears more and more (no confo yet) to be the Sony chip
(a la Nik D100), I'm afraid you're right on the noise count.

re the AS, maybe Minolta can licence it to Canon/Nikon et al and puff up
their development budget a bit...

> levels but in all other respects they'll likely to be pretty much on par.
> The noise thing's badly over-scrutinised anyway - even at 18x12" a D100
> capture is effectively noiseless. Get a DSLR like this Alan and that scanner
> of yours will become an desktop ornament ; )


Nah, Velvia forever. I still owe you some comparison shots, don't I?
My problem is selling my old ICE-less film scanner. It has been
languishing in the camera 'used' case since Sept...

Cheers,
Alan.


--
e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

 
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Bill Tuthill
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-12-2004
Alan Browne <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> Antishake too!


That is nice, but 6 Mp is a huge disappointment for a camera that
won't be available for another 9 months. See below.

> It would appear (based on the 6 Mpix number) that they likely
> using the same Sony chip as the Nikon D100. I just hope that
> the ISO numbers are better than the Nikon.


Also the size of the sensor (APS C) lends credence to Sony origin.
I find it absolutely incredible that Konica-Minolta would choose
a sensor that has been available for about one year. This must be
some kind of cruel hoax.

 
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VT
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      02-12-2004
The AutoFocussing (AF) of Minolta (film) SLRs just have seemed
quicker, more responsive and able to focus in darker conditions when
compared to their direct (price bracket) rivals of Canon and Nikon.

This is especially true of their current range of film SLRs in the
Maxxum/Dynax 7, 5 etc.

However basing the new DSLR on the worthy Maxxum/Dynax 7 -
but plaing a somewhat out-dated 6Mp APS-sized CCD just seems
half-hearted.

When Minolta introduced their first digicam it was the Minolta Dimage
7 which was one of the very first 5Mp digicams -

Now with the Konica/Minolta DSLR they are likely to be one of the LAST
6Mp DSLRs
(other than other brands' exisiting model updates/improvements).

The main problem with 6Mp DSLRs is exactly the throw-back to the 35mm
format 3:2 aspect ratio -
which is great for snapshot size of 6x4 -
but I think most people are looking more in the terms of 10x8 (5:4
aspect ratio) , 16x12 (4:3) or even 20x16 (5:4)

If one were to print to the 8" width for a 10x8-
a 6Mp DSLR such as the popular Canon Digital Rebel (EOS-300D)
(3072x2048pixels) can put down a maximum of 2048 pixels of an
uncropped image......
this is 256 ppi on paper.

This MIGHT sound impressive -
until one looks at a humble 5Mp p&s like say the Canon S50 (~$350
street price) that captures 2592x1944 pixel images - at 10x8 printing
to the 8" width - it can put down 1944 pixels on paper of an uncropped
image ........
this is 243 ppi -
not that much difference.

Of course one can argue that the Canon Digital Rebel has 3072 pixels
on the longer dimension and if printed to 10" would be 307 ppi -
whereas the 5Mp Canon S50 with only 2592 pixels will only manage 259
ppi.........

As I suggested it depends on how one prints to paper for a 10x8 -
using the 8" width -
the DSLR would be "wasting" - almost 17% of its pixels along the
longer dimension or 512 pixel (rows)
Whereas
the 5Mp p&s (using a 4:3 aspect ratio) "wastes" only about 6% of its
pixels along the longer dimension, or some 162 pixel (rows)

So if the Minolta DSLR is slated to use an existing 6Mp sensor of the
typical 3:2 ratio -
it would be sadly out-of-date BEFORE it's even released.

For 3:2 aspect ratio Konica/Minolta should really be considering about
8Mp to get 300ppi printing to the 8" width.
Or abandon the 3:2 ratio convention and go for the 4:3 ratio where
precious pixels are utilized more effectively for the typical larger
enlargement print sizes -
which is what the majority of purchasers are looking to do
then one might be able to get away with 6Mp
although 7.2Mp (3200x2400) is probably a better target for 300ppi 10x8
(printing to 8" width).
--
Vincent
remove CLOTHING for e-mail

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net/
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net/
 
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Alan Browne
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      02-12-2004
Bill Tuthill wrote:

> Alan Browne <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Antishake too!

>
>
> That is nice, but 6 Mp is a huge disappointment for a camera that
> won't be available for another 9 months. See below.
>
>
>>It would appear (based on the 6 Mpix number) that they likely
>>using the same Sony chip as the Nikon D100. I just hope that
>>the ISO numbers are better than the Nikon.

>
>
> Also the size of the sensor (APS C) lends credence to Sony origin.
> I find it absolutely incredible that Konica-Minolta would choose
> a sensor that has been available for about one year. This must be
> some kind of cruel hoax.
>


They gotta start somewhere. Look how fast they scaled up the A2. Maybe
by then they'll upscale it in any case...

Don't take it so hard. If you really want 16x24 prints (every day
right?), use film.

Cheers,
Alan

--
e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

 
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Doug Cutler
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-12-2004
Good, good, good.
I have been looking at digitals but have been really disappointed by
their lack of flexibility, but thought I would just have to go that way.
Now I can wait and have my cake and eat it!!. I have 2 Maxxum bodies and
lenses from 20mm to 600mm (almost continuous coverage) plus filters, ring
flash, etc, etc. Now it looks as if I can have the best of both worlds,
hope the cost isn't totally out of this world though.
Doug.

> To all the Minolta Faithful who held out through the Canon storm,
> congratulations! The Maxxum 7 is a great platform for Minolta to start
> their DSLR series. I hope they also come out with a more rugged version
> and get into pace on the Mpix. It won't be out until the fall, but
> that's okay... in any case I'll wait a few months after to see how well
> it rates and hope that Minolta do a "9" digital too... I prefer metal
> bodies.
>



 
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Roland Karlsson
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      02-12-2004
VT <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> However basing the new DSLR on the worthy Maxxum/Dynax 7 -
> but plaing a somewhat out-dated 6Mp APS-sized CCD just seems
> half-hearted.
>
> Now with the Konica/Minolta DSLR they are likely to be one of the LAST
> 6Mp DSLRs
> (other than other brands' exisiting model updates/improvements).


Nothing wrong at all with "just" 6 Mpixels. With a larger sensor,
like the one in this camere, you get a rather impressive result
with 6 Mpixels.

> This MIGHT sound impressive -
> until one looks at a humble 5Mp p&s like say the Canon S50 (~$350
> street price) that captures 2592x1944 pixel images - at 10x8 printing
> to the 8" width - it can put down 1944 pixels on paper of an uncropped
> image ........
> this is 243 ppi -
> not that much difference.


You cannot compare a DSLR with an APS sized sensor with a humble
P&S with a 2/3 sensor. The quality difference is huge. Moreover, on
the DSLR you can put all Minoltas' fine lenses. A prime lens of
the best quality is way better than any P&S zoom you can find.
At ISO 1600 and a good prime F/2.0 lens you have something that
is more than 10 times faster than a comparable P&S also. Not to
talk about your 50/1.4 lens!!!! Now we are talking about no use
for flash almost anywhere!


/Roland
 
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