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what does 12.3 milllion recorded pixels mean vs
6.3 million effective pixels?

i am looking at the fuji S7000

any feedback

The S7000 uses a 6MP sensor, but it can be set to save 12MP size files. The
camera's internal firmware uses the captured data and creates a 12MP file if
you want to do that. You also have the option to save in 6MP, 3MP or smaller
sizes as well.

Bill

"Mattearoadie" <> wrote in message
news:...
> what does 12.3 milllion recorded pixels mean vs
> 6.3 million effective pixels?
>
> i am looking at the fuji S7000
>
> any feedback

"Mattearoadie" <> wrote in message
news:...
> what does 12.3 milllion recorded pixels mean vs
> 6.3 million effective pixels?
>
> i am looking at the fuji S7000

It means the camera normally builds 6M full color pixels interpolated from
1.5M Red sensors, 3M Green sensors, and 1.5M Blue sensors. Optionally, it
will build a 12M pixel image from the same number of sensors.

There is normally no optical benefit whatsoever to interpolation, but Fuji's
double-interpolation (the 12M pixel output) does enjoy a little bit of
optical benefit, because the brick pattern layout of Fuji's SuperCCD will
slightly underperform when compared to other 6MP cameras unless it is
oversampled. This is because images are ultimately viewed in a conventional
grid pattern, and some info is lost during the
brick-pattern-->conventional-pattern coordinate conversion unless an
oversamplimg method is employed.

It's a long story but, in a nut shell, Fuji claims they use a brick pattern
because it slightly increases vertical and horzontal resolution compared to
a conventional grid pattern. This is true. It is also true (the part they
"forget" to tell you) that a brick pattern decreases diagonal resolution by
a corresponding amount, so the net gain in overall resolution is exactly
zero.

Then why do it? Because vertical and horizontal resolution is all that is
usually tested.

So what are you left with when you buy into Fuji SuperCCD? A 6MP image with
slightly lower resoultion that a conventional 6MP camera, or, a 12MP image
with the slightly better vertical and horizontal resolution than a 6MP
camera, and correspondingly worse diagonal resolution than a 6MP
camera--resulting overall resolution: 6MP. If all a reviewer tests is V/H
res, the Fuji will magically outperform its 6MP competitors by a little.
The benefit to you is nothing, the cost is a need to generate 12MP worth of
bandwidth in order to have a picture with the same overall resolution as a c
onventional 6MP camera.

"Mattearoadie" <> wrote in message
news:...
> what does 12.3 milllion recorded pixels mean vs
> 6.3 million effective pixels?
>
> i am looking at the fuji S7000
>
> any feedback

I'd look at some more sample pictures before buying the S7000. From what
I've seen ( www.steves-digicams.com, www.dcresource.com, et al.) the S7000
has a much noisier output than many other cameras in its class.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, by any means: Generally speaking, I like
Fuji products and my two brothers both own Fuji digital cameras (the 2800
and 3800) and they are quite happy with them. However, I don't think the
S7000 is quite up to Fuji's standards.

"George Preddy" <> wrote in message
news:bvn3rl$m7d$...
>
> "Mattearoadie" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > what does 12.3 milllion recorded pixels mean vs
> > 6.3 million effective pixels?
> >
> > i am looking at the fuji S7000
>
> It means the camera normally builds 6M full color pixels interpolated from
> 1.5M Red sensors, 3M Green sensors, and 1.5M Blue sensors. Optionally, it
> will build a 12M pixel image from the same number of sensors.
>
> There is normally no optical benefit whatsoever to interpolation, but
Fuji's
> double-interpolation (the 12M pixel output) does enjoy a little bit of
> optical benefit, because the brick pattern layout of Fuji's SuperCCD will
> slightly underperform when compared to other 6MP cameras unless it is
> oversampled. This is because images are ultimately viewed in a
conventional
> grid pattern, and some info is lost during the
> brick-pattern-->conventional-pattern coordinate conversion unless an
> oversamplimg method is employed.
>
> It's a long story but, in a nut shell, Fuji claims they use a brick
pattern
> because it slightly increases vertical and horzontal resolution compared
to
> a conventional grid pattern. This is true. It is also true (the part
they
> "forget" to tell you) that a brick pattern decreases diagonal resolution
by
> a corresponding amount, so the net gain in overall resolution is exactly
> zero.
>
> Then why do it? Because vertical and horizontal resolution is all that is
> usually tested.
>
> So what are you left with when you buy into Fuji SuperCCD? A 6MP image
with
> slightly lower resoultion that a conventional 6MP camera, or, a 12MP image
> with the slightly better vertical and horizontal resolution than a 6MP
> camera, and correspondingly worse diagonal resolution than a 6MP
> camera--resulting overall resolution: 6MP. If all a reviewer tests is V/H
> res, the Fuji will magically outperform its 6MP competitors by a little.
> The benefit to you is nothing, the cost is a need to generate 12MP worth
of
> bandwidth in order to have a picture with the same overall resolution as a
c
> onventional 6MP camera.
>
>



Don't forget the extremely aggressive Jpeg compression that Fuji insist upon
using! (one of my main reasons for not considering any Fuji 'prosumer'
model)

"Paul H." <> wrote in message
news:Cs6dnRPCh6kV0YLdRVn-...
>
> "Mattearoadie" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > what does 12.3 milllion recorded pixels mean vs
> > 6.3 million effective pixels?
> >
> > i am looking at the fuji S7000
> >
> > any feedback
>
> I'd look at some more sample pictures before buying the S7000. From what
> I've seen ( www.steves-digicams.com, www.dcresource.com, et al.) the S7000
> has a much noisier output than many other cameras in its class.
>
> I'm not trying to pick a fight, by any means: Generally speaking, I like
> Fuji products and my two brothers both own Fuji digital cameras (the 2800
> and 3800) and they are quite happy with them. However, I don't think the
> S7000 is quite up to Fuji's standards.

I never said it wasn't a competitive 6MP camera. But it is a shame Fuji
seems to ruin what their engineers come up with, by relentlesly trying to
trick people at the store counter. Fuji is a dishonest
company--deliberately, intentionally, and repeatedly.

But I do agree that Fuji's true 6MP sensors (not to be confused with their
3MP sensors which they advertise as 6MP, like the F700) are notably noisier,
pixel for pixel, than their 3MP sensors were. Same thing happened to Sony,
btw. Seems that we're finally bumping into technology limits that many have
been saying are right around the corner. Cramming more pixels into the same
real estate is starting to degrade image quality as much as it helps.

"George Preddy" <> wrote in message
news:bvnt1s$m5m$...
> Cramming more pixels into the same
> real estate is starting to degrade image quality as much as it helps.
>

So how many pixels are Foveon cramming into their real estate? 3.43 or 10.3?

"Braindead Preddy" <> wrote in
news:bvnvso$d8i$:

>
> "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
> news:bvnt1s$m5m$...
>> Cramming more pixels into the same
>> real estate is starting to degrade image quality as much as it helps.
>>
>
> So how many pixels are Foveon cramming into their real estate? 3.43 or
> 10.3?

According to DP Review, the SD9 gives better resolution than other 3MP
cameras, but not even close to what a true 10mp would give.

"R2D2" <> wrote in message
news:Xns948445B2D78A8R2D2starwarsjedi@130.133.1.4. ..
> "Braindead Preddy" <> wrote in
> news:bvnvso$d8i$:
>
> >
> > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
> > news:bvnt1s$m5m$...
> >> Cramming more pixels into the same
> >> real estate is starting to degrade image quality as much as it helps.
> >>
> >
> > So how many pixels are Foveon cramming into their real estate? 3.43 or
> > 10.3?
>
> According to DP Review, the SD9 gives better resolution than other 3MP
> cameras, but not even close to what a true 10mp would give.

Actually they rate it higher than all 6MP Bayers. But that's for a B&W
target, which is meaningless. In color tests, the SD9 blows the 1Ds away...

http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_05/essay.html

....but how could it not blow the $8000 Canon away, with 25% more RGB sets?

"George Preddy" <> wrote in message
news:bvo1mh$nr6$...
>
> Actually they rate it higher than all 6MP Bayers.

No they don't. That's a blatant lie.

The closest they come to that is saying that it matched the D60 in
resolution, which is a way out of date camera.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd9/page24.asp