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Any interchangeable lens digital non-SLRs?

 
 
G Huang
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      01-08-2004
A traditional SLR gives a convenient way of previewing what's being
captured through the lens. A digital camera can do this previewing
electronically through the LCD screen. It seems that the
penta-prism/mirror mechanism is an unnecessary complication, at least
for some photographers. Ok, the full frame LCD does not have enough
resolution to allow precision manual focus, but a special zoom mode can
be added to display the actual pixels of the center area to facilitate
focusing with a press of a button. For those insisting on eye-level
viewfinder, a small LCD with an eyepiece can be added to make an
electronic penta-prism. The only drawback I see is the slight increase
in battery consumption because of the constant use of LCD.

So, the obvious question is, for mass production cameras, why only DSLRs
are designed to have interchageable lenses?

GH.

 
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Dave Cohen
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      01-08-2004
I've not used the converters available for my and other Canon's, so I can't
comment on quality of image, but that would seem to be a partial attempt to
satisfy the need.
Dave Cohen

"G Huang" <(E-Mail Removed)-labs.com> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)-labs.com...
> A traditional SLR gives a convenient way of previewing what's being
> captured through the lens. A digital camera can do this previewing
> electronically through the LCD screen. It seems that the
> penta-prism/mirror mechanism is an unnecessary complication, at least
> for some photographers. Ok, the full frame LCD does not have enough
> resolution to allow precision manual focus, but a special zoom mode can
> be added to display the actual pixels of the center area to facilitate
> focusing with a press of a button. For those insisting on eye-level
> viewfinder, a small LCD with an eyepiece can be added to make an
> electronic penta-prism. The only drawback I see is the slight increase
> in battery consumption because of the constant use of LCD.
>
> So, the obvious question is, for mass production cameras, why only DSLRs
> are designed to have interchageable lenses?
>
> GH.
>



 
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Bill
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      01-08-2004
None that I know of. My Fuji S602Z has an electronic viewfinder
(EVF)......which I use most of the time to compose my shots. And even with
that (or the LCD) in use, battery usage has not been a problem. While it
might be nice to be able to change the lens (like an SLR), I do have a wide
angle adapter that does a nice job! I haven't needed a telephoto adapter,
since the 6X optical zoom serves my needs well.

I think the reason that manufacturer's don't make interchangeable lens
cameras is that they would have to make a new standard for these lenses. The
market probably doesn't justify it. It's easier and cheaper for them to
develop a camera that uses existing lenses. So they have done that with
digital SLR's.

Bill


"G Huang" <(E-Mail Removed)-labs.com> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)-labs.com...
> A traditional SLR gives a convenient way of previewing what's being
> captured through the lens. A digital camera can do this previewing
> electronically through the LCD screen. It seems that the
> penta-prism/mirror mechanism is an unnecessary complication, at least
> for some photographers. Ok, the full frame LCD does not have enough
> resolution to allow precision manual focus, but a special zoom mode can
> be added to display the actual pixels of the center area to facilitate
> focusing with a press of a button. For those insisting on eye-level
> viewfinder, a small LCD with an eyepiece can be added to make an
> electronic penta-prism. The only drawback I see is the slight increase
> in battery consumption because of the constant use of LCD.
>
> So, the obvious question is, for mass production cameras, why only DSLRs
> are designed to have interchageable lenses?
>
> GH.
>



 
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Seneca
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      01-08-2004

"G Huang" <(E-Mail Removed)-labs.com> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)-labs.com...
> A traditional SLR gives a convenient way of previewing what's being
> captured through the lens. A digital camera can do this previewing
> electronically through the LCD screen. It seems that the
> penta-prism/mirror mechanism is an unnecessary complication, at least
> for some photographers.


I agree, sort of. It is true that the all-optical SLR viewfinder gives an
incomparably better image than the LCD or (at least at the present time)
electronic viewfinder, and this counts for something.


> Ok, the full frame LCD does not have enough
> resolution to allow precision manual focus, but a special zoom mode can
> be added to display the actual pixels of the center area to facilitate
> focusing with a press of a button.


Yes. In fact, cameras in the Minolta DiMAGE 7 series do exactly that for
manual focus.


> For those insisting on eye-level
> viewfinder, a small LCD with an eyepiece can be added to make an
> electronic penta-prism. The only drawback I see is the slight increase
> in battery consumption because of the constant use of LCD.


That, and the fact that the EVF is just not nearly as clear or sharp as the
pentaprism (or mirror prism) arrangement.


>
> So, the obvious question is, for mass production cameras, why only DSLRs
> are designed to have interchageable lenses?


I suppose it's because a) lens mounts and the attendant electrical and
mechanical connections add complication and expense, and b) digital cameras
are still pretty much in a state of flux designwise and with respect to
sensor size. So a camera maker is likely to be reluctant to design a line of
interchangeable lenses for a new camera when that new camera may be
completely obsoleted in a couple of years or so and the lenses all become
orphans.

I agree it would be great if they did, especially for cameras like my DiMAGE
7i and 7Hi. I'd love to see an interchangeable-lens version of these, with
ultrawide lenses (as short as, say, 16mm fisheye and/or 14 to 17mm
rectilinear equivalent) made available. But I suppose Minolta regards such
lenses as having too little appeal to the general public and too expensive
to bother designing for digitals at the present time.

Seneca


 
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G Huang
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      01-08-2004
Seneca wrote:
>
> I suppose it's because a) lens mounts and the attendant electrical and
> mechanical connections add complication and expense, and b) digital cameras
> are still pretty much in a state of flux designwise and with respect to
> sensor size. So a camera maker is likely to be reluctant to design a line of
> interchangeable lenses for a new camera when that new camera may be
> completely obsoleted in a couple of years or so and the lenses all become
> orphans.
>

I don't see the need for new line of interchangeable lenses. There are
plenty of lenses already. Why can't there be a mirrorless Rebel using
Canon EF lenses, or mirrorless Dimage using Maxxum lenses?

 
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G. Huang
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      01-08-2004
Bill wrote:

> I think the reason that manufacturer's don't make interchangeable lens
> cameras is that they would have to make a new standard for these lenses. The
> market probably doesn't justify it. It's easier and cheaper for them to
> develop a camera that uses existing lenses. So they have done that with
> digital SLR's.
>

My OP was not why there are no new lens mount. I don't see the need for
new lens mount at all. My point was that they (Canon, Nikon) can design
a digital camera without the mirror mechanism and still use their
favorite (EF, AF-Nikkor) interchangeable lenses. These mirrorless and
shutterless bodies will probably be cheaper to make since there are no
moving parts.

 
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Bill
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      01-08-2004
Because those lenses will not focus properly on the smaller CCD's found in
most digital cameras. Therefore, the manufacturer's had to design the
digital SLRs using larger sensors, that can work with all the lenses that
are already abundant. That's why in my reply I stated that the investment in
a new type of lens (one that WILL work with the CCD's used in most digital
cameras) would probably not be worthwhile to the camera makers. This was
also similar to what Seneca posted in the previous reply.

Bill

"G Huang" <(E-Mail Removed)-labs.com> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)-labs.com...
> Seneca wrote:
> >
> > I suppose it's because a) lens mounts and the attendant electrical and
> > mechanical connections add complication and expense, and b) digital

cameras
> > are still pretty much in a state of flux designwise and with respect to
> > sensor size. So a camera maker is likely to be reluctant to design a

line of
> > interchangeable lenses for a new camera when that new camera may be
> > completely obsoleted in a couple of years or so and the lenses all

become
> > orphans.
> >

> I don't see the need for new line of interchangeable lenses. There are
> plenty of lenses already. Why can't there be a mirrorless Rebel using
> Canon EF lenses, or mirrorless Dimage using Maxxum lenses?
>



 
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bob
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      01-08-2004
"Bill" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:ZYiLb.26159$ti2.909@lakeread03:

> Because those lenses will not focus properly on the smaller CCD's
> found in most digital cameras. Therefore, the manufacturer's had to
> design the digital SLRs using larger sensors, that can work with all
> the lenses that are already abundant. That's why in my reply I stated
> that the investment in a new type of lens (one that WILL work with the
> CCD's used in most digital cameras) would probably not be worthwhile
> to the camera makers. This was also similar to what Seneca posted in
> the previous reply.
>
> Bill
>


They could put optics in the space normally occupied by the mirror, to
reduce the image circle to match the smaller sensor.

Bob
 
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G. Huang
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      01-08-2004
bob wrote:
>
> They could put optics in the space normally occupied by the mirror, to
> reduce the image circle to match the smaller sensor.
>

That maybe true, but I still don't see fundamentally why larger sensors
(same size as in SLRs) cannot be used without the mirror. Is this an
electronics issue?
GH.

 
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Paolo Pizzi
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      01-08-2004
G Huang wrote:

> Ok, the full frame LCD does not have enough resolution to allow
> precision manual focus, but a special zoom mode can be added to
> display the actual pixels of the center area


Too cumbersome. I wouldn't like it.

I guess the main reason why Canon/Nikon maintain the pentaprism
is that the typical customer of their DSLR's is someone who has
been using a film SLR for a while and he/she would like to transition
to digital in the most painless way.


 
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