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Hockey Rink photos - Help

 
 
Steve Edwards
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      12-30-2003
We have a new Nikon D100. Looking for suggested settings for best
performance in a hockey rink.

Our first pictures are very dark and have a yellow cast.

thanks

Steve


 
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Cello
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      12-30-2003
What kind of lens are you using? Settings depend on the lens...need more
info.
"Steve Edwards" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:V86Ib.93397$(E-Mail Removed)...
> We have a new Nikon D100. Looking for suggested settings for best
> performance in a hockey rink.
>
> Our first pictures are very dark and have a yellow cast.
>
> thanks
>
> Steve
>
>



 
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Chip Gallo
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      12-30-2003
Cello wrote:
> What kind of lens are you using? Settings depend on the lens...need
> more info.
> "Steve Edwards" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:V86Ib.93397$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> We have a new Nikon D100. Looking for suggested settings for best
>> performance in a hockey rink.
>>
>> Our first pictures are very dark and have a yellow cast.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Steve


Also the white balance needs to be done manually. Most rinks use a mix of
different temperature lights. I've been using Warmcards with my Sony F717 to
get a more pleasing skin tone.

Good luck and post some examples (along with your lens info).

Chip Gallo


 
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Steve Edwards
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      12-30-2003
Nikon Nikor 35mm-135mm AF.

Steve

"Cello" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> What kind of lens are you using? Settings depend on the lens...need more
> info.
> "Steve Edwards" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:V86Ib.93397$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > We have a new Nikon D100. Looking for suggested settings for best
> > performance in a hockey rink.
> >
> > Our first pictures are very dark and have a yellow cast.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >

>
>



 
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Johnny
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2003
Not specific to the D100, but try the following (refer to your manual
for specific instructions on how to make the changes):

1) Use custom white balance. If all else fails, use the ice or boards
as your reference. This will fix (or reduce) the yellow color cast.

2) Use 800 ISO (experiment with 400 and 1600). You don't mention if
you're in an amateur, "junior pro"/major college (AHL, CHL), or NHL
rink, so your lighting could be anywhere form bad to good.

3) Either get as close to the glass as possible, or get up high enough
to shoot over the glass. Either way, don't use a flash.

4) Set your exposure compensation to +1. You might need to go higher,
you might need to go less. (this will reduce/eliminate the dark
pictures)

5) Shoot from the corner of the rink to get the best shots. Get in the
Zamboni pit if possible. Get on the good side of the team or league
personnel and shoot from the penalty box (if it doesn't have glass --
don't forget to duck)

6) Shoot *A LOT* of pictures. You'll get some great ones, some good
ones, and a lot of bad ones.

7) Generally speaking, fights aren't interesting pictures (unless you
get a fist connecting), just a bunch of guys standing around.

Don't forget to shoot behind the play. A lot of good checks happen
behind the play.

Samples using the above tips can be seen at:
http://www.ushl.com/gallery/

John Elftmann



> We have a new Nikon D100. Looking for suggested settings for best
> performance in a hockey rink.
>
> Our first pictures are very dark and have a yellow cast.

 
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Viper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2003
Johnny - the site and your photos are awesome. I just got a Digital Rebel
and a 28-135 IS USM 3.5-5.6 Canon lens. I would love to take shots of my
son's basketball team anywhere close to what you did here.

When I put the dReb on 800 ISO I get very dark photos, even in a nicely lit
gym. I'll try the exp comp of +1 and Custom WB. Is this lens good enough to
shoot these shots? Would a 2.8 70-300 lens be better? Is there that much
difference between a 3.5 and 2.8 appature setting?

Would appreciate any advice...

Doug

"Johnny" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Not specific to the D100, but try the following (refer to your manual
> for specific instructions on how to make the changes):
>
> 1) Use custom white balance. If all else fails, use the ice or boards
> as your reference. This will fix (or reduce) the yellow color cast.
>
> 2) Use 800 ISO (experiment with 400 and 1600). You don't mention if
> you're in an amateur, "junior pro"/major college (AHL, CHL), or NHL
> rink, so your lighting could be anywhere form bad to good.
>
> 3) Either get as close to the glass as possible, or get up high enough
> to shoot over the glass. Either way, don't use a flash.
>
> 4) Set your exposure compensation to +1. You might need to go higher,
> you might need to go less. (this will reduce/eliminate the dark
> pictures)
>
> 5) Shoot from the corner of the rink to get the best shots. Get in the
> Zamboni pit if possible. Get on the good side of the team or league
> personnel and shoot from the penalty box (if it doesn't have glass --
> don't forget to duck)
>
> 6) Shoot *A LOT* of pictures. You'll get some great ones, some good
> ones, and a lot of bad ones.
>
> 7) Generally speaking, fights aren't interesting pictures (unless you
> get a fist connecting), just a bunch of guys standing around.
>
> Don't forget to shoot behind the play. A lot of good checks happen
> behind the play.
>
> Samples using the above tips can be seen at:
> http://www.ushl.com/gallery/
>
> John Elftmann
>
>
>
> > We have a new Nikon D100. Looking for suggested settings for best
> > performance in a hockey rink.
> >
> > Our first pictures are very dark and have a yellow cast.



 
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Johnny
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2003
Thanks for the compliements. I haven't shot basketball, I dedicate *a
lot* of time to hockey (photo & web site) from September - May.

I don't have personal experience with the dRebel or the 28-135 IS lens
(have considered purchasing the lens), but keep in mind that the f stop
is 3.5 at the wide (28mm) end of the zoom and 5.6 at the narrow (135mm)
end of the zoom. I'm going to assume you're mostly shooting at 135 or
close to it, and there is considerable difference between 5.6 and 2.8.

Before purchasing new equipment, try the following:

1) set your ISO to 800

2) put your camera in Aperture Priority (AV) mode.

3) set the aperature to as wide as possible (3.5 at 28mm, 5.6 at 135mm).
Refer to your manual for instructions on how to do this.

4) you mention your pictures are dark, so try setting your exposure
compensation to +.5 or +1 (experiement). Refer to your manual for
instructions on how to do this.

Shoot a game with the above settings. While shooting (or when you get
home), review your camera settings. Your ISO should be 800 in all shots
and your aperture should be 5.6 if at 135mm, or close to 5.6 if not
quite at 135mm (or 3.5 if at 28mm). What was your shutter speed? You
probably don't want anything less than 1/125; ideally you don't really
want slower than 1/200.

If you're still getting unacceptable shots, try setting your ISO to
1600. Keep in mind that you will get grainier shots at 1600. If you're
still not happy, it's time to consider a new (to you) lens. There's
nothing wrong with used equipment, and bargains can be found. I've
never bought anything on E-Bay, but there are probably some there. B&H
Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/) is highly regarded by many
photographers and has a good used section; all items are fairly rated on
a 10-point scale. I've purchased quite a bit of equipment from B&H, and
have made a couple of returns without any problems (used & new
equipment). Back to the lens. If you're still getting unacceptable
shots with the 28-135 and want good quality but don't need professional
quality images, consider Sigma's 70-200 2.8. It's 2.8 throughout the
zoom range, and is what I used in almost all of the hockey shots that
you saw. At $740 (at B&H) it's not cheap, but is considerably cheaper
than Canon's alternative which runs $1,090 (but it is an "L" lens).

If you're getting close enough at the 135mm end of your zoom and are
zooming to 135 in most of your shots, you may want to consider a prime
lens which can be cheaper than the zoom and will frequently give better
quality pictures. If you can make do with a 100mm lens, Canon offers a
100mm 2.0 for about $380 (B&H); or a 200mm 2.8 L for $630.

Hope this helps...

John


> Johnny - the site and your photos are awesome. I just got a Digital Rebel
> and a 28-135 IS USM 3.5-5.6 Canon lens. I would love to take shots of my
> son's basketball team anywhere close to what you did here.
>
> When I put the dReb on 800 ISO I get very dark photos, even in a nicely lit
> gym. I'll try the exp comp of +1 and Custom WB. Is this lens good enough to
> shoot these shots? Would a 2.8 70-300 lens be better? Is there that much
> difference between a 3.5 and 2.8 appature setting?
>
> Would appreciate any advice...
>
> Doug

 
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WMAS 1960
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2003
Don't know about the D-Rebel(?), if it has this but since the original post
mentioned the D100, Something specific to the D100 that might be of help is
this. If it is available on the Rebel, There is a setting on the D100 called
"Auto ISO" or something like that.

First, personally, I would use Shutter Priority rather than Aperature Priority
because I think your shutter speed is a little more crucial than your
aperature. I would agree with your statement that you wouldn't want to go
below 1/200th if you can avoid it. Actually from my experiences I prefer
1/400th if possible and no less than 1/250th. Anyways, however you set,
Aperature Priority or Shutter Priority, go into your menu and set "Auto ISO" to
ON. What happens here is that you will select your settings, either f/2.8, 3.5
or 5.6, or 1/250th or 1/400th. Then the camera will attempt to set the
opposite aperature or shutter setting to accomodate your choices. Using the
ISO setting on the dial on the left of your camera, select 800 or 400 ISO to
start with, if you think the rink is exceptionally well lit. That way the
camera will,

1.) set for 400 or 800 ISO. (whichever you selected).
2.) (for the sake of example here) set to f/3.5, if that was your choice.
3.) set the shutter speed to the maximum (fastest) allowable to accomodate your
f/3.5 aperature.

Then, if the camera can NOT accomodate your settings it will, AUTOMATICALLY, up
the ISO setting to try and accomodate YOUR specifications.

While writing this, and thinking about it, more reason here to use "Shutter
Priority" over Aperature Priority. With Aperature Priority, your camera has a
lot of latitude to set your shutter to as slow as 1/60th of a second or slower
to accomodate your aperature setting. This could yield you with motion blur
like you have never seen. By using Shutter Priority you will be setting a
prefered shutter speed and your lens will max out at it's widest aperature
setting to attempt to accomodate you. That will force the camera, if the
aperature isn't sufficient, into using Auto ISO, to up the ISO setting from 400
to 800 to 1600, whatever is needed. That way your shutter speed will not be
too low, your aperature will be maxed out and the ISO will be at maximum
REQUIRED to yield you your results. All this is assuming the rink you are
shooting at is adequately lit for you to photograph in.

I am reading this thread with great interest myself because I have a D100 also
and have been using it for a lot of hockey lately. I have had mixed results
myself since one rink I shot at was relatively well lit and the one that I shot
at a few weeks ago was horrible. I shot 7 games and over 700 pictures that
Saturday afternoon and am currently editing them. The amount of enhancement
and correction that I have to make to color and exposure is getting
frustrating. Plus, my pictures are no match to the ones that you(?) posted.
Yours are very nice.

For my experience, I shot at MANUAL and set the shutter and aperature myself
taking the brightness of the ice into consideration. I also whitebalanced on a
piece of gray foamboard that I got at my local Officemax. I then set the
aperature and shutter and shot a bunch of test shots pre-game. They looked
good so I started shooting at the drop of the puck. With all the settings you
would think all my pictures would be the same. However for some reason they
ranged from too dark to really nice and from redish to bluish to just right. I
think it might have to do with the types of lights which might, like
flourescent tubes, oscillate or cycle at a frequency (rate) that we don't
percieve with our eyes but that can be captured with a faster shutter speed.
Maybe there is a shutter speed limit here that might need to be considered?
Add to the lighting difficulties where they had light fixtures that did seem to
alternate accross the ceiling from redish to bluish and white, and spots on the
ice that seemed bright, dark red and blue, that they had netting along the
glass between the stands and the playing surface. The AF of my camera seemed
to frequently focus on the netting and not on the ice yielding me many out of
focus shots. Fortunately I shot so many photos that there are enough shots for
my needs that are well enough lit, well composed, close enough in color to
correct and where the action is in focus and not the netting. The number of
wasted shots though is a bit discouraging. Like my experience with shooting
video of hockey, over the years, these experiences do register positively with
me in one respect. It gives me the experience to know which rinks to make the
effort in and which ones are a waste of time. At amature level, High School,
College, Park District, etc. some facilities can be very good while others just
aren't worth it.

>I don't have personal experience with the dRebel or the 28-135 IS lens
>(have considered purchasing the lens), but keep in mind that the f stop
>is 3.5 at the wide (28mm) end of the zoom and 5.6 at the narrow (135mm)
>end of the zoom. I'm going to assume you're mostly shooting at 135 or
>close to it, and there is considerable difference between 5.6 and 2.8.
>
>Before purchasing new equipment, try the following:
>
>1) set your ISO to 800
>
>2) put your camera in Aperture Priority (AV) mode.
>
>3) set the aperature to as wide as possible (3.5 at 28mm, 5.6 at 135mm).
>Refer to your manual for instructions on how to do this.
>
>4) you mention your pictures are dark, so try setting your exposure
>compensation to +.5 or +1 (experiement). Refer to your manual for
>instructions on how to do this.
>
>Shoot a game with the above settings. While shooting (or when you get
>home), review your camera settings. Your ISO should be 800 in all shots
>and your aperture should be 5.6 if at 135mm, or close to 5.6 if not
>quite at 135mm (or 3.5 if at 28mm). What was your shutter speed? You
>probably don't want anything less than 1/125; ideally you don't really
>want slower than 1/200.
>
>If you're still getting unacceptable shots, try setting your ISO to
>1600. Keep in mind that you will get grainier shots at 1600. If you're
>still not happy, it's time to consider a new (to you) lens. ......

 
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Viper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2003
Thanks, I will give this a try. I found the Sigma lens you mention below for
$599 - I'll probably pick it up.

Can I ask what software you used to create the photo gallery? Is it a
Dreamweaver wizard? I manage a small site for my son's basketball team,
www.jammersbball.com, and would love to have a nice gallery like that
*should I ever be able to shoot shots like you!*

thanks,
Doug

"Johnny" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks for the compliements. I haven't shot basketball, I dedicate *a
> lot* of time to hockey (photo & web site) from September - May.
>
> I don't have personal experience with the dRebel or the 28-135 IS lens
> (have considered purchasing the lens), but keep in mind that the f stop
> is 3.5 at the wide (28mm) end of the zoom and 5.6 at the narrow (135mm)
> end of the zoom. I'm going to assume you're mostly shooting at 135 or
> close to it, and there is considerable difference between 5.6 and 2.8.
>
> Before purchasing new equipment, try the following:
>
> 1) set your ISO to 800
>
> 2) put your camera in Aperture Priority (AV) mode.
>
> 3) set the aperature to as wide as possible (3.5 at 28mm, 5.6 at 135mm).
> Refer to your manual for instructions on how to do this.
>
> 4) you mention your pictures are dark, so try setting your exposure
> compensation to +.5 or +1 (experiement). Refer to your manual for
> instructions on how to do this.
>
> Shoot a game with the above settings. While shooting (or when you get
> home), review your camera settings. Your ISO should be 800 in all shots
> and your aperture should be 5.6 if at 135mm, or close to 5.6 if not
> quite at 135mm (or 3.5 if at 28mm). What was your shutter speed? You
> probably don't want anything less than 1/125; ideally you don't really
> want slower than 1/200.
>
> If you're still getting unacceptable shots, try setting your ISO to
> 1600. Keep in mind that you will get grainier shots at 1600. If you're


> still not happy, it's time to consider a new (to you) lens. There's
> nothing wrong with used equipment, and bargains can be found. I've
> never bought anything on E-Bay, but there are probably some there. B&H
> Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/) is highly regarded by many
> photographers and has a good used section; all items are fairly rated on
> a 10-point scale. I've purchased quite a bit of equipment from B&H, and
> have made a couple of returns without any problems (used & new
> equipment). Back to the lens. If you're still getting unacceptable
> shots with the 28-135 and want good quality but don't need professional
> quality images, consider Sigma's 70-200 2.8. It's 2.8 throughout the
> zoom range, and is what I used in almost all of the hockey shots that
> you saw. At $740 (at B&H) it's not cheap, but is considerably cheaper
> than Canon's alternative which runs $1,090 (but it is an "L" lens).
>
> If you're getting close enough at the 135mm end of your zoom and are
> zooming to 135 in most of your shots, you may want to consider a prime
> lens which can be cheaper than the zoom and will frequently give better
> quality pictures. If you can make do with a 100mm lens, Canon offers a
> 100mm 2.0 for about $380 (B&H); or a 200mm 2.8 L for $630.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> John
>
>
> > Johnny - the site and your photos are awesome. I just got a Digital

Rebel
> > and a 28-135 IS USM 3.5-5.6 Canon lens. I would love to take shots of my
> > son's basketball team anywhere close to what you did here.
> >
> > When I put the dReb on 800 ISO I get very dark photos, even in a nicely

lit
> > gym. I'll try the exp comp of +1 and Custom WB. Is this lens good enough

to
> > shoot these shots? Would a 2.8 70-300 lens be better? Is there that

much
> > difference between a 3.5 and 2.8 appature setting?
> >
> > Would appreciate any advice...
> >
> > Doug



 
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Johnny
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2003
I use "arles image web page creator" which can be found at

http://www.digitaldutch.com/

It is very flexible and has a lot of options for customizing. And if
you have some HTML knowledge, you can create custom templates as I did
with my gallery --

http://www.ushl.com/gallery/




> Can I ask what software you used to create the photo gallery? Is it a
> Dreamweaver wizard? I manage a small site for my son's basketball team,
> www.jammersbball.com, and would love to have a nice gallery like that
> *should I ever be able to shoot shots like you!*

 
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