candid shots & permission

Hi all, I'm the new owner of a canon A80 digital camera, and i've been
experimenting an awful lot since I've had it.

I have been taking a series of photos on buses and in cafes and other
pubic places and need some advice or guidance.

The pics I've taken so far are natural unposed and without the
knowledge of anyone, so my questions are should I be asking the
permission of people in public spaces to take photos? Should I ask
permission of the café owners or transport operators?

-----------------
"If Darwin´s theory of Evolution was correct,
cats would be able to operate a can-opener by now."
C.S. Lewis

Ian Hurst (Troyka)

In article <>,
says...
>
>
> Hi all, I'm the new owner of a canon A80 digital camera, and i've been
> experimenting an awful lot since I've had it.
>
> I have been taking a series of photos on buses and in cafes and other
> pubic places and need some advice or guidance.
>
> The pics I've taken so far are natural unposed and without the
> knowledge of anyone, so my questions are should I be asking the
> permission of people in public spaces to take photos? Should I ask
> permission of the café owners or transport operators?
>
> -----------------
> "If Darwin?s theory of Evolution was correct,
> cats would be able to operate a can-opener by now."
> C.S. Lewis
>

I take (most) of my pictures at AQHA horse shows (independantly and as
official Photographer for Connecticut Quarter Horse Assosiation (CQHA)).

Since horse shows are considered "public" events, and I am expected by
the event coodinators (CQHA) to take pictures, I simply festoon the
general area with signs telling people "If you see me with a camera in
my hand, ASSUME I am taking pictures, if you do NOT want your picture
taken, let me know and I will keep you OUT of the picture or remove you
from it". Most of my pictures are "action shots" or "Candids".

After 5 seasons I have only been asked by ONE person to NOT TAKE HER
PICTURE. (and she asked me not to at LEAST 25 times during the 3 day
event even though I told her I would NOT and I NEVER aimed a lens in her
direction)Later I found out this girl had some problems with unwanted
publicity in her recent past.

These are LARGE events with from 500 to 2000 people attending.

That having been said, I will follow-up with this:

I would not consider taking photos on a public bus, in a Dining place,
or anywhere that the persons involved might have an expectation of
privacy, without FIRST getting permission, and making an announcement.

My only exception would be a news event, and then only if I considered
the subject PUBLISHABLE.

A car crash comes to mind, where a pile-up of 6 or 10 vehicles is strewn
about the Tarmac... It might be a useable photo.. On the other hand, if
you are "ON THE SCENE" would pictures of dead bodies and or body parts
be suitable?? I dont think so, even injured/dead people have a right to
expect SOME courtesy.

A recent plane crash in my area is a good example. I took photos of the
crash scene, and the burning houses, and of the wreckage of the plane,
but when the Pilot and co-pilots bodies were being raised from the
wreckage, I shut the camera OFF.. Let the long lenses in the TV news
choppers overhead shoot the gore for the 6 o'clock ratings war.

They did show the footage, it was insulting to the public, and
disrespectfull to the families involved, but they got the ratings.

Just randomly shooting pictures while out amongst the cranky public
COULD get you a punch in the nose if you are seen. Some people are VERY
cranky about having thier picture taken. It hasn't happened to me, but I
have seen it happen.

--
Larry Lynch
Lasting Imagery
Mystic, Ct.

Larry Lynch

Ian Hurst (Troyka) writes:

> The pics I've taken so far are natural unposed and without the
> knowledge of anyone, so my questions are should I be asking the
> permission of people in public spaces to take photos? Should I ask
> permission of the café owners or transport operators?

As long as you're in a public place and you don't intend to sell the
photos for commercial use, you don't need to ask permission (in the
United States--other jurisdictions may differ).

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic

"Ian Hurst (Troyka)" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
>
> Hi all, I'm the new owner of a canon A80 digital camera, and i've been
> experimenting an awful lot since I've had it.
>
> I have been taking a series of photos on buses and in cafes and other
> pubic places

Now you're just asking for trouble. Keep the shots from the waist up.

>
> The pics I've taken so far are natural unposed and without the
> knowledge of anyone, so my questions are should I be asking the
> permission of people in public spaces to take photos? Should I ask
> permission of the café owners or transport operators?
>

Check with your local laws, but usually if the person is recognizable, you
need a release if the picture will be used for commercial purposes.

Juan

Juan R. Pollo

In article <>,
says...
> As long as you're in a public place and you don't intend to sell the
> photos for commercial use, you don't need to ask permission (in the
> United States--other jurisdictions may differ).
>
>

I agree, and so does the LOCAL law, but the "punch in the nose" syndrom
sure looked painful to me.

You can call a cop, but that wont fix the nose.
--
Larry Lynch
Lasting Imagery
Mystic, Ct.

Larry Lynch

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 14:33:59 GMT, "Juan R. Pollo"
<> wrote:

>
>"Ian Hurst (Troyka)" <> wrote in message
>news:.. .
>>
>>
>> Hi all, I'm the new owner of a canon A80 digital camera, and i've been
>> experimenting an awful lot since I've had it.
>>
>> I have been taking a series of photos on buses and in cafes and other
>> pubic places
>
>Now you're just asking for trouble. Keep the shots from the waist up.
>
>>
>> The pics I've taken so far are natural unposed and without the
>> knowledge of anyone, so my questions are should I be asking the
>> permission of people in public spaces to take photos? Should I ask
>> permission of the café owners or transport operators?
>>
>
>Check with your local laws, but usually if the person is recognizable, you
>need a release if the picture will be used for commercial purposes.
>
>Juan

I've often wondered about this. Does "commercial puposes" include
selling a print at an art show? ie do you need a model release to
sell a print where people are recognizable?

Suppose you take a picture in Europe and sell it in the US?
**************************
Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".

Mark Herring

if you intend to sell the pictures (a commercial purpose) you need a
release.

If the subject of the photo finds out later that you sold the photo and
profited from it you are liable.

Tomgo1

Mark Herring writes:

> I've often wondered about this. Does "commercial puposes" include
> selling a print at an art show?

No. "Commercial" usually means things like product endorsements, works
of fiction, advertising, and so on. Mainly uses in which the person
appears to be something he or she is not, or appears to be endorsing a
product or service. An art print is just art, so it isn't really
commercial. Postcards or calendars would be commercial. A photo in a
textbook or magazine usually would not.

Potentially defamatory or embarrassing uses such as pornography also
require a release.

It's true that the line is a bit fuzzy, just like everything else in the
realm of intellectual property.

> ie do you need a model release to
> sell a print where people are recognizable?

Not in most jurisdictions.

> Suppose you take a picture in Europe and sell it in the US?

Usually it's the jurisdiction of the sale that will take precedence, not
the jurisdiction covering the place where the photo was taken.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic

notice the spelling of public in the second paragraph! i hope you meant
public at least....



"Ian Hurst (Troyka)" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
>
> Hi all, I'm the new owner of a canon A80 digital camera, and i've been
> experimenting an awful lot since I've had it.
>
> I have been taking a series of photos on buses and in cafes and other
> pubic places and need some advice or guidance.
>
> The pics I've taken so far are natural unposed and without the
> knowledge of anyone, so my questions are should I be asking the
> permission of people in public spaces to take photos? Should I ask
> permission of the café owners or transport operators?
>
> -----------------
> "If Darwin´s theory of Evolution was correct,
> cats would be able to operate a can-opener by now."
> C.S. Lewis

eas

Troyka Makes everyone a cup of Earl Grey tea while we hear what "eas"
<> has to say
>notice the spelling of public in the second paragraph! i hope you meant
>public at least....
>
>
>
>"Ian Hurst (Troyka)" <> wrote in message
>news:.. .
>>
>>
>> Hi all, I'm the new owner of a canon A80 digital camera, and i've been
>> experimenting an awful lot since I've had it.
>>
>> I have been taking a series of photos on buses and in cafes and other
>> pubic places and need some advice or guidance.
>>
>> The pics I've taken so far are natural unposed and without the
>> knowledge of anyone, so my questions are should I be asking the
>> permission of people in public spaces to take photos? Should I ask
>> permission of the café owners or transport operators?
>>
>> -----------------
>> "If Darwin´s theory of Evolution was correct,
>> cats would be able to operate a can-opener by now."
>> C.S. Lewis
>


ah my dyslexia kicks in again!

----------
'Nobody made a greater mistake
than he who did nothing because
he could do only a little.'
Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)

Ian Hurst (Troyka)