«

Who asked for it: I did

I made the decision to do a install from web instead of a
download-then-install for a number of reasons that have been well documented
( a number of times) in this forum. But, I can tell you that "our end
users are stupid" wasn't the impetus for doing this. The impetus was the
large number of telephone calls that we got with real end users who
downloaded the software and "nothing happened" since they couldn't find the
download.

Those calls have essentially disappeared since we instituted the
install-from web (and the downloads have not, last week we took something
like 40k COMPLETED downloads)

yes, there are certain number of people who would like to download on one
computer and install on another, but doing the work to package things up
requires time and energy that we have prioritized lower than some other
stuff that is coming in the upcoming releases. The number of complaints that
we receive is a handful a month (like yours) compared to the couple of
orders of magnitude of complaints and calls prior to doing this.

Do I want to do both, yup. Do I have the people and money to do both, no.

BTW, your "facts" are not correct. A single EXE does not exist. The stub
picks up a whole bunch of different packages based on the answers you give
and the system that it is installing. We don't package up all of the 10
languages, all of the printer profiles, all of the OS variants, and
everything else since the download would be in the 50-ish MB size.




"Test User" <> wrote in message
news:3fcfb1d1$...
> Here is an email volley between Kodak and I.
>
> Allow me to summarize for those who feel it's too long to read:
> Purchased a new Kodak DX4530, tried to install the EasyShare software v3.0
> I got an error and the download halted, there was a link for me to
> investigate online,
> and it was determined that I needed the free upgrade to v3.2 so far so
good.
>
> However the software is 18mb in size and would choke my dial up
connection.
> So, I thought I'd just download it in the office and take it home on cd or
> flash drive.
> But Lo and Behold, Kodak doesn't offer the software as a straight
download.
> The only
> way to get the software is to do the "web install".
>
> I complained to Kodak and here is a snippet from their reply:
>

>
>
>
> <My 2nd Request>
> Hi Danny & Kodak,
>
> Thank you for your quick reply.
>
> Let me begin by saying that I am in the software design business. I
> know for a fact that the EXE exists, But to not offer it via the web is
> a mistake. This shows lack of interest for the consumer's convenience,
> and some executive's lack of understanding in software design. It may
> be easier for Kodak to cater to the masses by "simplifying the install
> process", you have essentially screwed the rest of us.
>

Paul H. wrote:

> Unfortunately, there are some people who, however hungry they might be,
> could be offered a free apple but would refuse it saying, "What? You're
> not going to peel it for me?"

You laugh, I was at a short order "waffle house" and a -homeless guy- walks
in begging for food, they offer him some eggs and grits and he said "I was
thinking more like a hamburger and some hash browns..."
--

Stacey

Test User wrote:

> Here is an email volley between Kodak and I.
>
Snip

I went through something like this with an old kodak scanner and after
walking through a couple of level of support, they mailed me a free CD
upgrade once they understood it wasn't going to even work without it.

--

Stacey

<Grrr> Yeah, where is the Ron Baird guy??!!! </Grrr>

I bought a Kodak DX6230. The flash didn't work. So I got it replaced.
I took a few photographs and plugged the camera to the USB port
expecting it to turn up as a drive on my Windows 2000 SP4 PC (as all
cameras do). Well, nothing of that sort happens, instead Win2k prompts
me for new hardware installation. I push in the CD hoping that Windows
will find the driver file on the CD. Nothing of that sort happens. So
I figure I need to install the software <duh!!>

So I start installing Easyshare 3.1. This in itself is frustrating.
This means that I need to install Easyshare on every PC that I need to
connect to the camera??!! That is plain lousy. I guess the idea is to
make money by ramming the camera docking station down the customers'
throat.

Anyways, the software installation croaks giving me a "12x17x1603x"
error. I follow a link for troubleshooting. At this point, note that
Kodak expects the PC to be connected to the internet. Why the
assumption?? Anyways, Kodak says start the installation from the
command line with a "/DALL" switch. It generates a logfile (free bug
testing, eh?) that I send to Kodak support.

Kodak support in their infinite wisdom decide that I must roll-back
from Windows 2000 SP4 to SP3!!! How dare they ask a customer to risk
rolling-back the service pack?? What about the security
vulnerabilities that will be opened up?? What about other software
that are running nicely on SP4? What about my PC's stability? Kodak
expects me to risk all this because I bought their stupid camera??!!!
How about fixing their crappy software, for a change?

To make matters worse, the Easyshare 3.2 is only web-installable!!!
Now this is plain ridiculous. So I need to spend an hour on every PC,
downloading Easyshare 3.2, for the camera to talk to that PC??

Is someone from Kodak listening there?? You guys are morons!!! Yes,
morons. I should've stuck to Olympus!!! (I recently bought a nice
Olympus C-750)

Kodak reply below
================================================== ============================
<ANSWER>
Dear Kodak Customer:

Thank you for your recent visit to the Kodak web site and question
about
Kodak uses 3 error codes in EasyShare software to better diagnose the
problem the user has experienced.

This allows Kodak software support to better assist a customer with
this
problem.

Error code 12x17x1603x indicates the EasyShare installer experienced a
problem because EasyShare versions 3.0, 3.0.1 and 3.1 did not install
on
Windows 2000 SP4.

The following are your options.

Option 1:
You can go back to Windows 2000 SP3, EasyShare will successfully
install
on that OS, then update your OS to SP4 and EasyShare will continue to
successfully function.

Please note, if you would like to revert back to SP3 from SP4 in order
to install Easyshare, you will need to work with your Computer support
team regarding the procedure to revert your Service Pack.

Option 2:
If you receive a TriCode error 1603 and are running Windows 2000
service
pack 3 or earlier, please update your EasyShare Software with the
improved version 3.2 to better handle certain Windows operating
systems
that experienced this error with earlier versions of EasyShare
software
(version 3.0, 3.0.1, 3.1).

Please go the following url to update:

http://www.kodak.com/go/easysharesw


If you need to reply to this email, please reply 'with history'
(include
previous e-mails) so we can expedite our service to you.

Thanks for coming to the Kodak web site! In appreciation, we would
like
to alert you to special promotion at Ofoto (a Kodak Company). They
have
a 40% offer that expires January 31, 2004.

http://www.ofoto.com/call

*It applies only to the prints included in your first order, however,
and does not apply to merchandise (such as cards, frames and
calendars),
shipping, taxes or other charges included in your order.
Unfortunately,
no substitutions or cash equivalents will be given. This offer is
limited to new Ofoto members only and to only one offer per customer.


Best Regards

Jyoti K.
Kodak Information and Technical Support
</ANSWER>
================================================== ============================



"Test User" <> wrote in message news:<3fcfb1d1$>...
> Here is an email volley between Kodak and I.
>
> Allow me to summarize for those who feel it's too long to read:
> Purchased a new Kodak DX4530, tried to install the EasyShare software v3.0
> I got an error and the download halted, there was a link for me to
> investigate online,
> and it was determined that I needed the free upgrade to v3.2 so far so good.
>
> However the software is 18mb in size and would choke my dial up connection.
> So, I thought I'd just download it in the office and take it home on cd or
> flash drive.
> But Lo and Behold, Kodak doesn't offer the software as a straight download.
> The only
> way to get the software is to do the "web install".
>
> I complained to Kodak and here is a snippet from their reply:
>
> "We designed the download so that it runs from the server instead of
> downloading as an executable due to customer input to simplify the
> process. Letting it run from our server means that people do not have
> to remember what the .exe file is called or where it ended up on their
> hard drive.
>
> While we certainly do see the value in having the downloadable .exe, we
> felt that there was an overwhelming call for simplicity."
>
> I want to know who asked for a simpler process than click --> save as -->
> double click and launch.
>
> Anyway here is the current volley of emails, there is a reply due on my
> part, but I am following through on my
> threat to post this in a newsgroup.
>
>
> Here is the full text of the emails:
>
> <My original request:>
> Name: - System: Windows 98 SE - Processor: Pentium III -
> RAM: 64 MB to 255 MB - Network: Dial-up - Browser: IE 6.x - Country: US
> - Question: After purchasing a DX4530, I cannot install from CD due to
> some Tricodes. The suggestion was to download v3.2 from the web.
> However at 18MB the download is huge, but I have access to a high speed
> connection at the office. I want download the software and cut it to cd
> to bring home. Please forward me the URL for the entire software and
> not the web install version of it. ?
>
>
> <Their 1st Answer>
> Greetings,
>
> Thank you for your recent visit to the Kodak web site and question
> about KODAK EASYSHARE Software.
>
> I'm sorry but you might have noticed the lack of a downloadable
> executable for the KODAK Easyshare Software.
>
> We designed the download so that it runs from the server instead of
> downloading as an executable due to customer input to simplify the
> process. Letting it run from our server means that people do not have
> to remember what the .exe file is called or where it ended up on their
> hard drive.
>
> While we certainly do see the value in having the downloadable .exe, we
> felt that there was an overwhelming call for simplicity.
>
> You still have the option of getting the software on CD for only $7.95,
> which is a very nominal fee considering the usual cost of new software,
> don't you think? Let us know if that is your interest.
>
> www.kodak.com/go/easysharesw
>
> Your valuable feedback is greatly appreciated and has also been
> forwarded to our development team for consideration for future software
> products.
>
> With regards to the URL for the Software Installation File, I'm sorry
> but this free download is done in this way.
>
> If you need to reply to this email, please reply 'with history'
> (include previous e-mails) so we can expedite our service to you.
>
> <Marketing Bullshit Snipped>
>
> Regards,
>
> Danny D.
> Kodak Information and Technical Support
>
>
>
> <My 2nd Request>
> Hi Danny & Kodak,
>
> Thank you for your quick reply.
>
> Let me begin by saying that I am in the software design business. I
> know for a fact that the EXE exists, But to not offer it via the web is
> a mistake. This shows lack of interest for the consumer's convenience,
> and some executive's lack of understanding in software design. It may
> be easier for Kodak to cater to the masses by "simplifying the install
> process", you have essentially screwed the rest of us.
>
> You people must have a really low opinion of your end user, by implying
> that most people cannot download software. I for one will be returning
> my camera at a 15% return penalty, and posting this message to
> newsgroups. In the hopes that you change your backwards policy and
> offer both solutions to the software download dilemma.
>
> <Their 2nd ANSWER>
> Greetings,
>
> Thank you for your recent note about the KODAK EASYSHARE Software.
>
> Kodak uses 3 error codes in EasyShare software to better diagnose the
> problem the user has experienced. This allows Kodak software support
> to
> better assist a customer with this problem.
>
> In order for us to help you, can you please answer a few more questions
> for us.
>
> What was the Tri-code error when you were installing the software using
> the CD?
>
> Are you logged in as the System Administrator? If not, please try
> logging in as the System Admin., then try reinstalling the software.
>
> Please also make sure that you do not have any anti-virus software or
> pop-up protection running in the background. If you do, please make
> sure to stop those from running, then try the installation again.
>
> We appreciate your help in letting us know if any of these suggestions
> resolve any errors or create any new. If you continue to have trouble,
> please reply back with answers to these questions or any new questions.
>
> We will also be more than happy to send you the upgraded 3.2 version of
> the Kodak Easyshare Software should the resolution to the said tri-code
> is an upgrade.
>
> If you need to reply to this email, please reply 'with history'
> (include
> previous e-mails) so we can expedite our service to you.
>
> <Marketing Bullshit Snipped>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mira O.
> KODAK Information and Technical Support
>
> Will post the continuing saga.....

Test User wrote:
> Here is an email volley between Kodak and I.
> <My original request:>
> Name: - System: Windows 98 SE - Processor: Pentium III -
> RAM: 64 MB to 255 MB - Network: Dial-up - Browser: IE 6.x -
> Country: US - Question: After purchasing a DX4530, I cannot
> install from CD due to
> some Tricodes.

What are "Tricodes"?

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington
Uses a Kodak DC4800

Kodak's solution for users who do not or cannot connect the PC to the
internet. Buy a $8 CD from them!!

I paid for a working camera. But it doesn't and Kodak expects me to
pay to fix it??!!

Kodak's latest mail to me
---------------------------------------------------------------
<ANSWER>
Greetings Siddhartha,

Thank you for your recent visit to the Kodak web site and question
about
KODAK EASYSHARE Software.

You can try to purchase the CD-Software online at
www.digitalimagingstore.rite2u.com


Thanks for coming to the Kodak web site! In appreciation, we would
like
to alert you to special promotion at Ofoto (a Kodak Company). They
have
a 40% offer that expires January 31, 2004. It applies only to the
prints included in your first order, however, and does not apply to
merchandise (such as cards, frames and calendars), shipping, taxes or
other charges included in your order. Unfortunately, no substitutions
or
cash equivalents will be given. This offer is limited to new Ofoto
members only and to only one offer per customer.

http://www.ofoto.com/call


Regards,

Joseph R.
KODAK Information and Technical Support
</ANSWER>
---------------------------------------------------------------


"William Jackson" <> wrote in message news:<bqqg1a$7cd$>...
> Who asked for it: I did
>
> I made the decision to do a install from web instead of a
> download-then-install for a number of reasons that have been well documented
> ( a number of times) in this forum. But, I can tell you that "our end
> users are stupid" wasn't the impetus for doing this. The impetus was the
> large number of telephone calls that we got with real end users who
> downloaded the software and "nothing happened" since they couldn't find the
> download.
>
> Those calls have essentially disappeared since we instituted the
> install-from web (and the downloads have not, last week we took something
> like 40k COMPLETED downloads)
>
> yes, there are certain number of people who would like to download on one
> computer and install on another, but doing the work to package things up
> requires time and energy that we have prioritized lower than some other
> stuff that is coming in the upcoming releases. The number of complaints that
> we receive is a handful a month (like yours) compared to the couple of
> orders of magnitude of complaints and calls prior to doing this.
>
> Do I want to do both, yup. Do I have the people and money to do both, no.
>
> BTW, your "facts" are not correct. A single EXE does not exist. The stub
> picks up a whole bunch of different packages based on the answers you give
> and the system that it is installing. We don't package up all of the 10
> languages, all of the printer profiles, all of the OS variants, and
> everything else since the download would be in the 50-ish MB size.
>
>
>
>
> "Test User" <> wrote in message
> news:3fcfb1d1$...
> > Here is an email volley between Kodak and I.
> >
> > Allow me to summarize for those who feel it's too long to read:
> > Purchased a new Kodak DX4530, tried to install the EasyShare software v3.0
> > I got an error and the download halted, there was a link for me to
> > investigate online,
> > and it was determined that I needed the free upgrade to v3.2 so far so
> good.
> >
> > However the software is 18mb in size and would choke my dial up
> connection.
> > So, I thought I'd just download it in the office and take it home on cd or
> > flash drive.
> > But Lo and Behold, Kodak doesn't offer the software as a straight
> download.
> > The only
> > way to get the software is to do the "web install".
> >
> > I complained to Kodak and here is a snippet from their reply:
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> > <My 2nd Request>
> > Hi Danny & Kodak,
> >
> > Thank you for your quick reply.
> >
> > Let me begin by saying that I am in the software design business. I
> > know for a fact that the EXE exists, But to not offer it via the web is
> > a mistake. This shows lack of interest for the consumer's convenience,
> > and some executive's lack of understanding in software design. It may
> > be easier for Kodak to cater to the masses by "simplifying the install
> > process", you have essentially screwed the rest of us.
> >

"Test User" <> wrote in message
news:3fcfb1d1$...
> Here is an email volley between Kodak and I.
>
> Allow me to summarize for those who feel it's too long to read:
> Purchased a new Kodak DX4530, tried to install the EasyShare software v3.0
....
> But Lo and Behold, Kodak doesn't offer the software as a straight
download.
> The only
> way to get the software is to do the "web install".
....
> While we certainly do see the value in having the downloadable .exe,
we
> felt that there was an overwhelming call for simplicity."
>
> I want to know who asked for a simpler process than click --> save as -->
> double click and launch.

Well, if you think about it, that particular camera was designed to not
allow the user to make mistakes. I do hope that this irony will help you put
on a smile until you see it through.

In article <C4gAb.1352$. net>,
"MikeWhy" <> wrote:

> "Test User" <> wrote in message
> news:3fcfb1d1$...
> > Here is an email volley between Kodak and I.
> >
> > Allow me to summarize for those who feel it's too long to read:
> > Purchased a new Kodak DX4530, tried to install the EasyShare software v3.0
> ...
> > But Lo and Behold, Kodak doesn't offer the software as a straight
> download.
> > The only
> > way to get the software is to do the "web install".
> ...
> > While we certainly do see the value in having the downloadable .exe,
> we
> > felt that there was an overwhelming call for simplicity."
> >
> > I want to know who asked for a simpler process than click --> save as -->
> > double click and launch.
>
> Well, if you think about it, that particular camera was designed to not
> allow the user to make mistakes. I do hope that this irony will help you put
> on a smile until you see it through.
>

Kodak should learn that it is impossible to make it foolproof. Fools
are just too damn ingenuous.

I can't use Easy Share (on a DX6490), so I just remove the flash from
the camera and put it in a card reader.

--
Rudy Garcia

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 04:50:49 -0600, Ron Hunter <>
wrote:

>Greg Kamer wrote:
>
>> "Test User"
>>
>>>I complained to Kodak and here is a snippet from their reply:
>>>
>>> "We designed the download so that it runs from the server instead of
>>> downloading as an executable due to customer input to simplify the
>>> process. Letting it run from our server means that people do not have
>>> to remember what the .exe file is called or where it ended up on their
>>
>> This is kind of odd..... You would think Kodak could provide 2 versions for
>> download. 1 for those who need more "simplicity" and those of us who can
>> remember where we downloaded a file to and run it from out hard drive....
>>
>> Of course doing it this way makes them an extra $7+ for mailing the cd to
>> you. Unfortunately you have the wait time, which does not seem too customer
>> friendly to me.
>>
>I believe recent postings here have indicated that a file would be made
>available in the future for those who don't mind downloading 30 meg
>files. It seems that Kodak hasn't noticed the growth of broadband
>amoung internet users, or they think their customers aren't those who
>have broadband... I know they are wrong in MY case.

The more real answer seems to have been mentioned before....

There are so many possible options, that to include them all on a
single download would be painful for THEIR download bandwidth.

That is a valid argument against a single huge EXE.

But Microsoft Internet Explorer probabaly shows the way that many
would be more than happy with... - a small launcher which lets you
make the selections, and allows you to do an online install or
download for offline.


Apparently, it is also just about possible to save what gets
downloaded by the Kodak install and cobble together an offline
installer.

Another point - broadband makes b*ggerall difference - online installs
are even LESS suitable for flaky dialup than they are for broadband.


And lets not forget the evil BACKWEB for updates - It is OFF on my
system, and it's staying off - while I'll grudgingly accept that it's
not "spyware" in THIS situation (though fully capable of such malice),
it is certainly a "parasitic updater", in that it lurks and goes when
IT says so, not when YOU choose.

--
I may be dozzzy, but take the ZZZ's out to mail me
http://www.junkroom.freeserve.co.uk/jvc2080.htm - 2x2x24 CD-RW troubles

If you drop a cactus, don't try to catch it!

Hi William

> Do I want to do both, yup. Do I have the people and money to do both, no.
>
> BTW, your "facts" are not correct. A single EXE does not exist. The stub
> picks up a whole bunch of different packages based on the answers you give
> and the system that it is installing. We don't package up all of the 10
> languages, all of the printer profiles, all of the OS variants, and
> everything else since the download would be in the 50-ish MB size.

Hmmm. Time to package up everything and put it into a downloadable
single EXE: maybe a morning ? Folks who want to download the
EXe are broadband folks, to whom the diff. between a 30 MB download
and a 50 MB download is trivial.

Oh, well, sounds like it won't happen. Too bad.

stan

"Make excuses, or make things happen." -- b. bonipulii