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Photographing Models

 
 
n
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      11-20-2003
How do people end up getting work photographing models at eg fashion
shows or for clothing advertisements? Do they just go up to an agency
and say "Give me a job?".

Is there anything you can suggest bearing in mind when shooting
fashion models?
 
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Phil Stripling
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      11-20-2003
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (n) writes:

> How do people end up getting work photographing models at eg fashion
> shows or for clothing advertisements? Do they just go up to an agency
> and say "Give me a job?".


No, they take their portfolios and their list of common acquaintances.

--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.
 
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Mark C
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      11-20-2003
First you need to put together a portfolio....both a digital and print
portfolio.

Then you need to get the digital portfolio on line......try the following
urls for sites that will host your digital portfolio

www.onemodelplace.com

www.asouthernsecret.com

Then you need to approach it like any other job....depending on the kind of
work you want to do. If you want to work for yourself...set up a studio and
advertise. If you want to work for an agency, newpaper, magazine, get on
the horn and get yourself an interview.

There is a direct relationship between the amount of effort one puts into to
manifesting what they want and the manifestation of it.

.......another suggestion is to find a local photographer with good rep and
thriving business and pick his/her brain.......join a photography club and
network with other photographers.....

Ciao,
Mark C
Nashville,TN


 
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Yehuda Paradise
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      11-20-2003
one way is to shoot some of your girlfriends (well, not really), pick the best shots, enlarge them carefully to 8 by 10, and show them to an agency scout. if you're any good, they'll probably put you on an approval assignment.
it also helps if you're somebody's nephew...

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journalist-north
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      11-21-2003

"Phil Stripling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> (E-Mail Removed) (n) writes:
>
> > How do people end up getting work photographing models at eg fashion
> > shows or for clothing advertisements? Do they just go up to an agency
> > and say "Give me a job?".

>
> No, they take their portfolios and their list of common acquaintances.
>

-----------

Here's something for your comment Phil from a legal standpoint on the IP and
copyright issues regarding shooting "models"...what follows is near
universal UK practice (and I have no doubt follows practice in the US as
well with model agencies) but note that copyright in the UK is treated as
property and public policy does not prevent it from being negotiating it
away: Public policy (UK) on IP [e.g copyright] does, however, tend to
recognise reasonable time limits favouring the copyright owner as a matter
of case law. As in the US there are both economic and moral rights attached
to copyright ownership in the UK but these contracts appear to make a
mockery of those rights:.

This is from a model agency (supposedly "standard") contract for the
"client":

"COPYRIGHT...
20. The photographer is not entitled to use any of the images he takes for
any usage
beyond that agreed under sections 2, 8, 9 & 17 above. The photographer to
this
extent agrees to restrict use of his copyright and, if the model agency
client is not a
photographer, the client is to draw these terms and conditions to the
attention of the
photographer and obtain his agreement to them before the shoot
commences...."

What this amounts to is that the photographer - in production shooting for
HIS client who then (client) engages the models they want from the agency -
whilst the photographer who may not even be a signatory party to the
contract between the "client" and the "agency", is required to subsume his
copyright to the whims of the agency. There is obviously no quid pro quo
here. Either agree or don't work.

I note with great interest that there is NO time limit so this agreement
would (under an agency's contractual claim) run the full length of the
copyright term. Also there is NO buyout provision in the contract. Usage
prohibitions run to include the photographs themselves but also:

(this is from the same contract form)

"...reproductions. or adaptations of or drawings therefrom, either complete
or in part,
atone [sic] or in conjunction with any wording or drawings, including
electronic imaging..."

Under these terms it appears that not only can't the photographer exploit
his copyright but he can't license the use or any other subsidiary use
(reproductions. or adaptations of or drawings therefrom, either complete or
in part, atone [sic] or in conjunction with any wording or drawings,
including electronic imaging) without paying the agency another fee. The
collection of such fees could even occur, under the terms of this form of
contract, long after a model has left the agency; left the modelling
business; or even after they may have died of old age.

As an interesting side note to this, in particular, NO ONE has ever been
able to demonstrate that the agencies ever actually pay the model ANY of
these residuals - usage or territory fees. The model is paid for his or her
"appearance" on the day...a flat agreed fee...and thereafter any additional
fees - appear - to go right into the agency's pocket.

It strikes me as "unjust enrichment" as follows to contract law theory both
regarding the usurpation of the photographer's rights as well as those of
the model. The Rishwain lead class action suit in NY state actually asserts
a claim of false accounting along these lines - as well as conspiracy to set
prices - at least with respect to the models that are a party to that class
action and their work product (specifically...agencies billing the client,
or receiving fees, in excess of that reported to the model as the fee paid
for the work assignment - or - conversely - not reporting or disclosing to
the model the actual amount billed to the client or received from them which
would, or should, then be the amount from which the agency deducts it's
fees). The accounting mechanism they use allows them to take 20% [agency
commission] from the model and bill the client for an excess 20% [agency
"supplement"] - yielding the agency in excess of 33% gross commission on the
billing. The US FTC has also launched an anti-trust investigation in the
same affair - going back for 20 years or more. Agencies do exactly the same
thing in the UK as well. -- ca 10-15 agencies control 90%+ of the national
market (in fashion models and particularly at the top end of the market) and
all belong to an [agent's / agency] association which produced the contract
terms you are looking at here. In effect they agreed those terms and
conditions amongst themselves - every body else can take it or leave it -
but if you leave it you don't work.

----

This is somewhat puzzling as well...if the photographer is given access, eg.
as an audience attendee, and the "public place" rule applies or the "private
place invitee rule" applies and the photog is permitted to take photos,
explicitly or implicitly, but where there is no contractual relationship
between the photographer and the "client", or the "agency", what's the
photographer's position on use? Keeping in mind that there is no
consistently established "image right" in the UK.

(and again from the same client contract form)

"FASHION SHOWS...
17. Payment of the agreed fee confers the right to make use of a model's
services on
the catwalk for the specified show and other than for purposes of press
reporting on
the show, any other proposed usage of any photograph(s)/film footage taken
at the
show must be negotiated and agreed separately with [agency name removed] in
writing in advance. This includes any photographs taken on behalf or by a
sponsor of a
show or any other party in any way associated with the show (to include
backstage). No contract or models release is binding unless approved in
writing by [agency name removed] Any other usage must be negotiated at the
time of booking...."

----

Lastly on testing with models:

(and again from the same contract form)

"TEST & EXPERIMENTAL PHOTOGRAPHY...
19. A photographer is not entitled to use test and experimental photographs
for
commercial purposes unless specific arrangements have been made before the
photographic session...."

And again, NO time limit...AND no provision for negotiation after the fact
on usage which may not have been foreseen.

----

A number of photographers here, myself included, have kicked this around
without ever reaching a satisfactory answer and the professional
photographer's associations tell us "Just don't sign those contracts!" - but
failing to sign off means: 1) You won't do any commercial work where models
are involved; and 2) Agencies will not furnish models for test work.

Any comment on the IP/copyright questions would be most welcome. Off-list
if you like.

Journalist

 
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Annika1980
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      11-21-2003
>From: (E-Mail Removed) (n)

>Is there anything you can suggest bearing in mind when shooting
>fashion models?


Use a silencer.




 
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Paolo Pizzi
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      11-21-2003
n wrote:

> How do people end up getting work photographing models at eg fashion
> shows or for clothing advertisements? Do they just go up to an agency
> and say "Give me a job?".


Screwing art directors (both sexes) usually works wonders,
especially if the photographer is handsome (again both sexes
equally apply) and the art director butt ugly. That would easily
explain how some truly inept unnamed photographers can get
a lot of work in the fashion industry...

(Sorry if it's a little too blunt, but it DOES contain at least
*some* truth...)


 
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DJ
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      11-21-2003
> Is there anything you can suggest bearing in mind when shooting
> fashion models?


No touching!


 
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journalist-north
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      11-21-2003

"Paolo Pizzi" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:0Sgvb.37400$(E-Mail Removed). com...
> n wrote:
>


>
> Screwing art directors (both sexes) usually works wonders,
> especially if the photographer is handsome (again both sexes
> equally apply) and the art director butt ugly. That would easily
> explain how some truly inept unnamed photographers can get
> a lot of work in the fashion industry...
>
> (Sorry if it's a little too blunt, but it DOES contain at least
> *some* truth...)
>

-----------

About the same way that the "moddows" get movie and singing deals when they
can't act or sing.

It's not what you know it's who you bl*w!

LOL

Journalist

 
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Scott Schuckert
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      11-22-2003
In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> How do people end up getting work photographing models at eg fashion
> shows or for clothing advertisements? Do they just go up to an agency
> and say "Give me a job?".


I did a bit of that type of work many years ago. (I was really more of
an industrial/product photographer) Three things:

1. Contacts
2. Portfolio
3. Track record.

First and absolutely foremost, you don't get work unless someone knows
you. Make friends with anyone you can, with any connection in that
industry - and develop it from there.

Next, whoever hires you has to be convnced, and has to cover his butt.
You have to have a body of credible work (in the same field) to show
them. "I hired him because he was cheaper/more available than the
regular guy, and his portfolio looked OK."

The first assignment is incredibly hard to get. The next much easier
(assuming you do well), and so forth. If you don't screw up too badly,
you can ride a reputation for years...<grin> Conversely, an early
failed job can destroy you - permanently.
 
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