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Canon EOS 10D

 
 
Randall Ainsworth
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      11-18-2003
> In my view Canon have made a lemon, admittedly a well built lemon. Lets'
> hope they can fix it but I expect that will be with another model.
>
> I'll probably be shot down in flames, in the usual Newsgroup fashion, but I
> know what a focussed image looks like and I just don't get them even after
> spending a considerable sum on this camera.


Is that you George?
 
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Jim Townsend
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      11-18-2003
Randall Ainsworth wrote:

> I've been doing photography for 37 years (most of them professionally)
> and got a 10D back in May. I think it's wonderful. One thing to try
> is to turn off all the focus points except for the center one (or
> whichever one you want to use). I don't have "L" lenses and it's
> plenty sharp. I'll never go back to film (sorry VH).


I'm pleased with my 10D as well..

Some bad ones did get out.. Fortunately mine wasn't one of them.


 
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Patrick L.
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      11-18-2003
Lastly too, when you
> say out of focus are you looking at teh image full size on screen? they

will
> always be soft



I dont know about the 10d, but when I upload an image from my Oly E-10,
it has to be reduced in order to view it on the screen, the images default
to 21x31 approximately, at 72 dpi. In other words, it fills the screen,
sharp as a tack, I should think it would not be an issue with the 10D,
either.


Patrick


 
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Patrick L.
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      11-18-2003

"Mike Brodbelt" <m.brodbelt@__NO_SPAM_PLEASE__coruscant.demon.co.u k> wrote
in message
newsan.2003.11.18.11.19.04.944254@__NO_SPAM_PLEA SE__coruscant.demon.co.uk.
...
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:09:42 +0000, Gerry wrote:
>
> > But now for the very first time in my whole life I have been brought to

my
> > knees and reduced to a blubbering state by this absolutely rubbish

camera
> > and completely incompetent company.
> >
> > I am now on my 3rd camera. This one like the first 2 is incapable of
> > taking a sharply focussed shot.

>
> Opinions on the "10D focus issue" vary widely. Here's my 2p worth, but you
> should take with a pinch of salt.
>
> > I have even sent my lens back to Canon for calibrating at a cost of over
> > £90 and had to buy 2 new lenses at the suggestion of the shop (Jessops)
> > but this hasn't helped one little bit.

>
> The forums on www.robgalbraith.com are frequented by a Canon technical
> specialist named Chuck Westfall, who has shown willing to help out users
> in the past by providing contact details of clueful people within Canon.
> He's also posted quite a bit of information about the 10D, and it appears
> that at least some people who think they have a focus issue actually
> don't, they're just being confused by Canon's "interesting" design choice
> about the position of the autofocus sensors.
>
> > She suggested that I should try looking in the manual to get some
> > helpful hints on how to focus a camera. I KNOW HOW TO FOCUS A CAMERA.
> >
> > Now I am coming across a new word that I have never come across before.
> >
> > 'Back Focusing'

>
> Back focus is where the actual focus plane turns up behind the intended
> target. One reason is seems to happen with the 10D is because the
> autofocus sensor is almost 3 times the size of the box in the viewfinder.
>
> This image http://www.pbase.com/image/19292475 posted by Chuck Westfall
> shows the true coverage of the 10D autofocus sensors.
>
> So, if you aim the focus square at a point with what the camera judges
> insufficient contrast, it will happily give you a focus lock, but may well
> have actually focused on an area of the focus sensor that fell outside the
> focus square.
>
> > Can anyone with more knowledge that Canon technical try and suggest
> > something that could help me to get this camera to take focussed shots
> > before I throw it in the bin and claim off the insurance.

>
> If there's a genuine calibration problem with the body, Canon should
> re-calibrate it. They will probably want you to send your lenses in as
> well, as it's possible that you may have both a lens that's in spec and a
> body that's in spec, both at the end of the acceptable range, which
> together can't focus properly. Some have suggested that the tolerances for
> the digital sensor are tighter than for film, which leads to more cameras
> being technically in spec, but looking off.
>
> There are endless threads on this issue at dpreview.com, and there's an
> article on focus testing your 10D at

http://www.photo.net/learn/focustest/,
> and another one here http://casualphotos.vze.com/10d. Also, when viewing
> at 10D image at full size (1 image pixel to 1 monitor pixel) on an average
> monitor, you're effectively viewing a print 3 feet wide from a distance of
> maybe 12-18 inches, which is very different from viewing a 4x6 print.
>
> HTH,
>
> Mike.



You know something, all of that stuff is nonsense, when you buy a camera,
take a picture, unless you have Down's syndrome, or something similar, a
majority of the shots should be in focus. All of this stuff surrounding
the 10d isn't happening with other Dslr's, so, Canon, in my most humble of
opinions, has made a design error with regard to the 10D.

Patrick




 
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Patrick L.
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-18-2003
Let's face it, the Canon 10D has a design flaw. Back to the drawing board
with that camera.


Patrick



"dylan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:srnub.7499$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Couldn't agree more, now on my second and very disappointed with AF. I am
> sure the G1 gave better results on a more consistent basis, with half the
> pixels. I know the camera is capable of some excellent results, and I've

had
> them sometimes, but it just isn't consistent. Many people will tell you

you
> have to learn to use it etc to overcome the naff AF system but why ?. I
> expect a camera with an Auto setting to work in that mode not be told I

need
> to compensate in other ways to make it work, especially with something as
> fundamental as focussing the image. I can only assume the people with no
> complaints have an exceptional model of the EOS10D or are expecting
> something different to me.
>
> I've had Canon cameras since the 1970's with the AE1, T90, EOS1N, EOS3,
> Powershot 600, Pro 70, G1... and they have all been more reliable at
> focussing, within their limits. Even with MF only models you know where

you
> stand. With the EOS10D you simply don't know what you are going to get.
>
> If anyone tells you the results are near comparison to a scanned 35mm
> negative/slide from a EOS3 they are having you on.
>
> In my view Canon have made a lemon, admittedly a well built lemon. Lets'
> hope they can fix it but I expect that will be with another model.
>
> I'll probably be shot down in flames, in the usual Newsgroup fashion, but

I
> know what a focussed image looks like and I just don't get them even after
> spending a considerable sum on this camera.
>
>
>
> "Gerry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bpcr56$2sk$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hi
> > I'm a really frustrated owner of what I thought was going to be a

> fantastic
> > camera.
> >
> > I have been a professional photographer for over 30 years (now retired)

I
> > have even taught the subject in college.
> >
> > The only reason for mentioning all that is to show that I do have a

little
> > knowledge of the subject.
> >
> > But now for the very first time in my whole life I have been brought to

my
> > knees and reduced to a blubbering state by this absolutely rubbish

camera
> > and completely incompetent company.
> >
> > I am now on my 3rd camera. This one like the first 2 is incapable of

> taking
> > a sharply focussed shot.
> >
> > If I shoot say 100 pictures, perhaps 10 of them will be so crisp that

they
> > will seem to jump out of the screen and the rest will have to be deleted
> > because they are so far out of focus.
> >
> > I have tried to contact Canon technical here in the UK, but you are

> diverted
> > to a help desk somewhere in Belgium.
> >
> > I have even sent my lens back to Canon for calibrating at a cost of over

> £90
> > and had to buy 2 new lenses at the suggestion of the shop (Jessops) but

> this
> > hasn't helped one little bit.
> >
> > The first time I spoke to a young lady in Canon technical who had never
> > heard of a Canon EOS 10D !!
> >
> > She suggested that I should try looking in the manual to get some

helpful
> > hints on how to focus a camera. I KNOW HOW TO FOCUS A CAMERA.
> >
> > Now I am coming across a new word that I have never come across before.
> >
> > 'Back Focusing'
> >
> > What on earth is back focusing and is this something that has been

dreamed
> > up to try and confuse people who are having problems with the camera.
> >
> > I've tried auto focusing through each of the cameras settings on a

tripod
> > and then again using manual and each shot has been out of focus to a

> greater
> > or lesser degree.
> >
> > Can anyone with more knowledge that Canon technical try and suggest
> > something that could help me to get this camera to take focussed shots
> > before I throw it in the bin and claim off the insurance.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
> >
> > Gerry
> >
> >

>
>



 
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Hans Kruse
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-18-2003
I just did some autofocus tests and the results are shown here
http://www.pbase.com/hkruse/af_tests and I think the results are quite
satisfactory and in line with my experience of taking real pictures with
this camera and the two lenses I've got (Canon 28-135mm USM IS and Sigma
15-30mm EX DG). Both are in my view exellent lenses and with good sharpness.
Now I'm not a professional, so I may be less critical to the results than a
real professional would be. It's also only the fourth SLR and the first
DSLR. It's the fourth digital camera and it has a great advantage over the
others I have (Minolta from 98 (discarded as useless) and Canon S10 and G2
which are still in use and great cameras).
So if you like to see the results of my shooting so far with the 10D and
judge for yourself the aotufocus performance then please look here
http://www.pbase.com/hkruse and look for the albums with 10D in the name.
What I have experienced is, of course, out of focus pictures, but I have
noticed that has been related to using all focussing points and not being
fully aware of which ones were lignting when I took the picture. So I either
now always look at that and if it fast moving things like people then I try
to use the very wide angle Sigma at 15mm (24mm on 10D) and have enough DOF.
Otherwise use only the middle AF point and make sure I point the middle to
what I want in focus. I have not seen the camera our of focus when I was
carefull about taking the pictures, but of course have got blurred images or
not enough DOF sometimes, but that's another matter.
All in all and using the Capture One DSLR LE Raw conversion software from
Phase One this is a really great camera worth every euro!
Hope this is helpfull.
Hans

"Gerry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bpcr56$2sk$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi
> I'm a really frustrated owner of what I thought was going to be a

fantastic
> camera.
>
> I have been a professional photographer for over 30 years (now retired) I
> have even taught the subject in college.
>
> The only reason for mentioning all that is to show that I do have a little
> knowledge of the subject.
>
> But now for the very first time in my whole life I have been brought to my
> knees and reduced to a blubbering state by this absolutely rubbish camera
> and completely incompetent company.
>
> I am now on my 3rd camera. This one like the first 2 is incapable of

taking
> a sharply focussed shot.
>
> If I shoot say 100 pictures, perhaps 10 of them will be so crisp that they
> will seem to jump out of the screen and the rest will have to be deleted
> because they are so far out of focus.
>
> I have tried to contact Canon technical here in the UK, but you are

diverted
> to a help desk somewhere in Belgium.
>
> I have even sent my lens back to Canon for calibrating at a cost of over

£90
> and had to buy 2 new lenses at the suggestion of the shop (Jessops) but

this
> hasn't helped one little bit.
>
> The first time I spoke to a young lady in Canon technical who had never
> heard of a Canon EOS 10D !!
>
> She suggested that I should try looking in the manual to get some helpful
> hints on how to focus a camera. I KNOW HOW TO FOCUS A CAMERA.
>
> Now I am coming across a new word that I have never come across before.
>
> 'Back Focusing'
>
> What on earth is back focusing and is this something that has been dreamed
> up to try and confuse people who are having problems with the camera.
>
> I've tried auto focusing through each of the cameras settings on a tripod
> and then again using manual and each shot has been out of focus to a

greater
> or lesser degree.
>
> Can anyone with more knowledge that Canon technical try and suggest
> something that could help me to get this camera to take focussed shots
> before I throw it in the bin and claim off the insurance.
>
> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>
> Gerry
>
>



 
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RustYİ
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-18-2003
"Gerry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bpcr56$2sk$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've tried auto focusing through each of the cameras settings on a tripod
> and then again using manual and each shot has been out of focus to a

greater
> or lesser degree.



If manual focusing gives bad results - your camera is faulty. Return it to
the shop that sold it to you and get it repaired. This will be done swiftly
by canon and if Jessup's is the shop that you bought it from,they will in my
experience lend you a replacement whilst it is away. My 10D gives excellent
results - no problems with the autofocus, well none that are not there on
the rest of the canon line-up.
--
For Welsh Military Flying visit .......
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/V-A-S/


 
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Jim Townsend
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-18-2003
Patrick L. wrote:

> Lastly too, when you
>> say out of focus are you looking at teh image full size on screen? they

> will
>> always be soft

>
>
> I dont know about the 10d, but when I upload an image from my Oly E-10,
> it has to be reduced in order to view it on the screen, the images default
> to 21x31 approximately, at 72 dpi. In other words, it fills the screen,


You are aware that zoomed to 100%, your image will be exactly the same size on
your monitor whether it's 72 dpi or 720 dpi. DPI and inches mean nothing to a
monitor..

Try it and see

> sharp as a tack, I should think it would not be an issue with the 10D,
> either.


One more thing.. The 10D does little in-camera sharpening.. As a result, the
final images appear soft when compared to the output of the average digicam.
My 10D images usually need a bump in sharpness and contrast.

I've heard they upped the default sharpening in the Digital Rebel to cut down
on complaints they had with the 10D.

Also.. A cheapie lens may not equal some of the excellent lenses available on
consumer digicams.. This can cause a user to wonder why his Samyang 10-1000mm
zoom lens and 10D doesn't produce images as good as the old G3... The camera
often gets blamed in this case. (Yes there is a Samyang lens.. very cheap


 
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Randall Ainsworth
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-19-2003
> Let's face it, the Canon 10D has a design flaw. Back to the drawing board
> with that camera.


Sure thing, Mr. Preddy.
 
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Rafe B.
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-19-2003
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:09:42 +0000 (UTC), "Gerry"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi
>I'm a really frustrated owner of what I thought was going to be a fantastic
>camera.
>
>I have been a professional photographer for over 30 years (now retired) I
>have even taught the subject in college.



Not sure how to advise you. You say you have
three bad 10Ds. Could be, but I'd be really
surprised if that were so.

AF works just fine on my 10D.

Apparently it works fine for lots of other folks
as well. The 10D has been an extraordinarily
successful camera.

One suggestion is to select single-point AF,
as others have suggested. Your manual
explains how to do that.

Personally, I find that AF works better for me
than attempting to manually focus the camera.
The lack of a split-screen or microprism grid
makes manual focus a bit iffy.

You didn't say what lens you're using.
Could that be a contributing factor?
Have you tried eliminating that possibility?

I've never heard of back-focusing, by the way.


rafe b.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com
 
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