«

Does anyone have their money saved up like me? I think this is going to be
the camera of the year dollar for dollar. or pound for pound. But who am I
to say?
BuGzY

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:14:40 GMT, "BuGzY" <> wrote:

>Does anyone have their money saved up like me? I think this is going
to be
>the camera of the year dollar for dollar. or pound for pound. But who
am I
>to say?
>BuGzY
>

Today, December 25th, January 1, January 15th, it was discontinued.
--
Like a game of pick up stick played by ****ing lunatics

In article <kr5tb.149186$9E1.751368@attbi_s52>,
says...
> Does anyone have their money saved up like me? I think this is going to be
> the camera of the year dollar for dollar. or pound for pound. But who am I
> to say?
> BuGzY

First of all, the model number is DSC-F828. The fact that Sony hasn't
released any sample pictures and has delayed the camera twice aren't
good signs. The chip is just too small to cram 8 megapixels on it. I
predict it will be the camera FLOP of the year. Buy a Digital Rebel with
the money you have saved and you will be happy.

--
__________________________________
Todd Walker
http://www.toddwalker.net
Canon 10D page:
http://www.toddwalker.net/canon10d
__________________________________

thats strange, of all the places I have read up on it never once did anyone
mention the chip being too small for 8 mp. Are all the pre release reviews
bias or paid by Sony ya think? True there isnt any pictures out yet. And
true with the Sony vs the Rebel you are stuck with the Carl Zeiss Lens. But
from all Ive heard about the Rebel to get the real quality photos you need
something along the lines of a 28-200 at around $340.00 so there goes the
price difference. I do appreciate the feedback Todd. I had to take some
second looks around. I think maybe waiting for a few months after the
release will tell a better story for sure. But I hate waiting.
thanks
BuGzY
"Todd Walker" <> wrote in message
news:...
> In article <kr5tb.149186$9E1.751368@attbi_s52>,
> says...
> > Does anyone have their money saved up like me? I think this is going to
be
> > the camera of the year dollar for dollar. or pound for pound. But who am
I
> > to say?
> > BuGzY
>
> First of all, the model number is DSC-F828. The fact that Sony hasn't
> released any sample pictures and has delayed the camera twice aren't
> good signs. The chip is just too small to cram 8 megapixels on it. I
> predict it will be the camera FLOP of the year. Buy a Digital Rebel with
> the money you have saved and you will be happy.
>
> --
> __________________________________
> Todd Walker
> http://www.toddwalker.net
> Canon 10D page:
> http://www.toddwalker.net/canon10d
> __________________________________

Got a slight case of hiccups there guy? or is this your answer to a query
about a release date? and by the way that signature, is that your school of
life philosophy in a nutshell or just some deep poetry you were inspired to
share with the group? Did you write it? Or pick it up at the pub?
<> wrote in message
news:...
> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:14:40 GMT, "BuGzY" <> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone have their money saved up like me? I think this is going
> to be
> >the camera of the year dollar for dollar. or pound for pound. But who
> am I
> >to say?
> >BuGzY
> >
>
> Today, December 25th, January 1, January 15th, it was discontinued.
> --
> Like a game of pick up stick played by ****ing lunatics

"BuGzY" <> wrote in message
news:kr5tb.149186$9E1.751368@attbi_s52...
>Does anyone have their money saved up like me? I think this is going to be
>the camera of the year dollar for dollar. or pound for pound.

Sony tried to start a megapixel war with this camera, but they
are having sensor problems. I strongly suspect that it's sensor
noise due to leakage issues with increasing the number of pixels
on the die by going to a smaller geometry. There is no easy way
to fix this, you can add post-processing, but this can only do so
much.

While the 828 specs look impressive, you are better off going with
a Canon EOS-300, or waiting for the Canon G6. Canon seems to
have solved the noise issues in their 6 Mpixel sensors.

The 828 is likely to accelerate Sony's decline in the higher end
digital cameras, and help Canon immensly. Canon could finish them
off with an SLR-like camera, but there are no indications that
Canon plans to enter this segment.

The solution to the 828 issues is for Sony is to fit a Foveon
sensor into this camera (just kidding).

>
>Sony tried to start a megapixel war with this camera, but they
>are having sensor problems. I strongly suspect that it's sensor
>noise due to leakage issues with increasing the number of pixels
>on the die by going to a smaller geometry. There is no easy way
>to fix this, you can add post-processing, but this can only do so
>much.
>
>While the 828 specs look impressive, you are better off going with
>a Canon EOS-300, or waiting for the Canon G6. Canon seems to
>have solved the noise issues in their 6 Mpixel sensors.
>
>The 828 is likely to accelerate Sony's decline in the higher end
>digital cameras, and help Canon immensly. Canon could finish them
>off with an SLR-like camera, but there are no indications that
>Canon plans to enter this segment.
>
>The solution to the 828 issues is for Sony is to fit a Foveon
>sensor into this camera (just kidding).


And you got all this information on Sony how?

In article <6ontb.1165$ et>,
says...
> but they are having sensor problems.

Speculation? or...

> I strongly suspect that it's sensor
> noise due to leakage issues with increasing the number of pixels
> on the die by going to a smaller geometry.

Fact? Where did you get this information from? Did Sony announce that
they are having sensor problems? Did you conclude this from the sparse
photographic samples that have shown up here and there and may or may not
represent current (pre-)production model quality?

Maybe Sony's delay has nothing to do with the sensor's quality, but with
production capacity, consistency of lens quality, or adjusting software
parameters. Perhaps Sony already knew months ago that they weren't going
to achieve a release before christmas, but decided to announce an early
release anyway to lure in potential buyers.

> While the 828 specs look impressive, you are better off going with
> a Canon EOS-300, or waiting for the Canon G6. Canon seems to
> have solved the noise issues in their 6 Mpixel sensors.

Yet many people anticipated that Canon's D60 CMOS would have terrible
noise compared to the D30 CMOS, because of the doubled pixel density.
Technology advances, and boundaries are pushed. No doubt Sony was aware
of the challenges associated with increasing pixel density. We will know
when the independent test reports of a production 828 are in.

Sony is a major manufacturer of image sensors. They'll want to make this
sensor competitive with respect to quality and price in order to sell it
to other camera manufacturers.

> The 828 is likely to accelerate Sony's decline in the higher end
> digital cameras, and help Canon immensly. Canon could finish them
> off with an SLR-like camera, but there are no indications that
> Canon plans to enter this segment.

The fact that they haven't yet suggests that this market segment is not
so easily conquered. There are more competitors than Sony.

"IK" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> In article <6ontb.1165$ et>,
> says...
> > but they are having sensor problems.
>
> Speculation? or...

Partly. Also the poor sample images that were posted then taken
down at the request of Sony. Clearly they're working on some
problems, and everything points to sensor issues.

> > I strongly suspect that it's sensor
> > noise due to leakage issues with increasing the number of pixels
> > on the die by going to a smaller geometry.
>
> Fact? Where did you get this information from? Did Sony announce that
> they are having sensor problems?

Oh yeah, that's gonna happen!

> Maybe Sony's delay has nothing to do with the sensor's quality, but with
> production capacity, consistency of lens quality, or adjusting software
> parameters.

All of that is possible, but all the evidence points to the sensor issues.
You probably are half-right when you mention production capacity
because they need to produce enough low leakage sensors for
production which is always a challenge with a new chip that pushes
the limits.

> > While the 828 specs look impressive, you are better off going with
> > a Canon EOS-300, or waiting for the Canon G6. Canon seems to
> > have solved the noise issues in their 6 Mpixel sensors.

> The fact that they haven't yet suggests that this market segment is not
> so easily conquered.

Perhaps Canon thinks that conquering it with the EOS-300D is a better
route. Then they can sell more lenses and flashes too.

I probably would get a Rebel EOS-300 if it wasnt made out of plastic.
BuGzY
"Steven M. Scharf" <> wrote in message
news:6ontb.1165$ nk.net...
> "BuGzY" <> wrote in message
> news:kr5tb.149186$9E1.751368@attbi_s52...
> >Does anyone have their money saved up like me? I think this is going to
be
> >the camera of the year dollar for dollar. or pound for pound.
>
> Sony tried to start a megapixel war with this camera, but they
> are having sensor problems. I strongly suspect that it's sensor
> noise due to leakage issues with increasing the number of pixels
> on the die by going to a smaller geometry. There is no easy way
> to fix this, you can add post-processing, but this can only do so
> much.
>
> While the 828 specs look impressive, you are better off going with
> a Canon EOS-300, or waiting for the Canon G6. Canon seems to
> have solved the noise issues in their 6 Mpixel sensors.
>
> The 828 is likely to accelerate Sony's decline in the higher end
> digital cameras, and help Canon immensly. Canon could finish them
> off with an SLR-like camera, but there are no indications that
> Canon plans to enter this segment.
>
> The solution to the 828 issues is for Sony is to fit a Foveon
> sensor into this camera (just kidding).
>
>