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Same MP rating

 
 
George Preddy
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      11-02-2003
Bayer (5 pixels of full color information):

RGGBRGGBRGGBRGGBRGGB




Foveon (20 pixels of full color information):

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


 
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Ray Fischer
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      11-02-2003
George Preddy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Bayer (5 pixels of full color information):


Get a life, idiot. Nobody believes your bullshit propaganda anymore
sicne you obviously don't understand what you write.

--
Ray Fischer
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)

 
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Roland Karlsson
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      11-02-2003
"George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:Yc1pb.19608
$(E-Mail Removed):

> Bayer (5 pixels of full color information):
>
> RGGBRGGBRGGBRGGBRGGB
>
>
>
>
> Foveon (20 pixels of full color information):
>
> BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
> GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
> RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


What are you talking about?
A Bayer sensor looks like this

R G R G R G R G R G R G
G B G B G B G B G B G B
R G R G R G R G R G R G
G B G B G B G B G B G B
R G R G R G R G R G R G
G B G B G B G B G B G B
R G R G R G R G R G R G
G B G B G B G B G B G B

And a Foveon sensor looks like this ..

C C C C C C C C C C C C
C C C C C C C C C C C C
C C C C C C C C C C C C
C C C C C C C C C C C C
C C C C C C C C C C C C
C C C C C C C C C C C C
C C C C C C C C C C C C
C C C C C C C C C C C C

.... where each C detects three "colors" that
can be mapped to R, G and B.

Both examples above has a maximum resolution of
12x8 pixels, even though the Foveon example
has 3 times as many meassured values.


Roland
 
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George Preddy
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      11-02-2003

"Roland Karlsson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns9427A72629251rolandkarlssonchello@130.133. 1.4...
> "George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:Yc1pb.19608
> $(E-Mail Removed):
>
> > Bayer (5 pixels of full color information):
> >
> > RGGBRGGBRGGBRGGBRGGB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Foveon (20 pixels of full color information):
> >
> > BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
> > GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
> > RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>
> What are you talking about?
> A Bayer sensor looks like this
>
> R G R G R G R G R G R G
> G B G B G B G B G B G B
> R G R G R G R G R G R G
> G B G B G B G B G B G B
> R G R G R G R G R G R G
> G B G B G B G B G B G B
> R G R G R G R G R G R G
> G B G B G B G B G B G B


Exactly what I said, but I used just your first line, for both sensors.

> And a Foveon sensor looks like this ..
>
> C C C C C C C C C C C C
> C C C C C C C C C C C C
> C C C C C C C C C C C C
> C C C C C C C C C C C C
> C C C C C C C C C C C C
> C C C C C C C C C C C C
> C C C C C C C C C C C C
> C C C C C C C C C C C C
>
> ... where each C detects three "colors" that
> can be mapped to R, G and B.


Exactly.

> Both examples above has a maximum resolution of
> 12x8 pixels, even though the Foveon example
> has 3 times as many meassured values.


Equally correct , good job...

Your "Bayer sensor" senses 24 pixels of full color information.
Your "Foveon sensor" senses 96 pixels of full color information.

24 compared to 96, but with the exact same MP rating on the store shelf.



 
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Roland Karlsson
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      11-02-2003
"George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in newsK9pb.28259
$(E-Mail Removed):

> Exactly what I said, but I used just your first line, for both sensors.


Nope - you did not. Please compare your line with the actual sensor
that I described.

> Your "Bayer sensor" senses 24 pixels of full color information.


No it has not - that is not how Bayer interpolation works.

> 24 compared to 96, but with the exact same MP rating on the store shelf.


This is one of your main beliefs, is it not? To try to
make wrong into right by telling the world that there
is an injustice made against Foveon from the Bayer
community?

Unfortunately, there exist no Bayer community. Bayer filtered
sensors is just a technology. A good technology to solve
the problems of color sensors. Another good technology is
the Foveon technology. It is patented and only Foveon can
currently use it. Soon someone will come up with an even
better method of doing color pictures, maybe with a true
RGB sensor at each pixel.


Roland
 
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George Kerby
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      11-02-2003
On 11/2/03 9:25 AM, in article bo37l6$cum$(E-Mail Removed), "Ray Fischer"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> George Preddy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Bayer (5 pixels of full color information):

>
> Get a life, idiot. Nobody believes your bullshit propaganda anymore
> sicne you obviously don't understand what you write.

Don't candy coat it Ray. Tell us how you REALLY feel!!!
Liberals have such understanding don't they?!?



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George Preddy
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      11-02-2003

"Roland Karlsson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns9427B14D01DEArolandkarlssonchello@130.133. 1.4...
> "George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in newsK9pb.28259
> $(E-Mail Removed):
>
> > Exactly what I said, but I used just your first line, for both sensors.

>
> Nope - you did not. Please compare your line with the actual sensor
> that I described.
>
> > Your "Bayer sensor" senses 24 pixels of full color information.

>
> No it has not - that is not how Bayer interpolation works.


It knows colors that it doesn't sense? That is neat!

> > 24 compared to 96, but with the exact same MP rating on the store shelf.

>
> This is one of your main beliefs, is it not? To try to
> make wrong into right by telling the world that there
> is an injustice made against Foveon from the Bayer
> community?


You posted those samples, I agreed with them. Your diagrams were right,
there is a 4:1 Foveon advantange at the same MP rating, since the Foveon X3
physically senses 3X the information per pixel, but doesn't then have to
throw away 25% of the color information due to 2x2 unit scaling
inefficiencies when used to sense only 3 primary colors.

> Unfortunately, there exist no Bayer community. Bayer filtered
> sensors is just a technology. A good technology to solve
> the problems of color sensors. Another good technology is
> the Foveon technology. It is patented and only Foveon can
> currently use it. Soon someone will come up with an even
> better method of doing color pictures, maybe with a true
> RGB sensor at each pixel.


Too late, Foveon already senses true RGB at every pixel.


 
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cultural neanderthal
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      11-02-2003
On 11/2/03 2:25 PM, in article RKdpb.19962$(E-Mail Removed),
"George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> "Roland Karlsson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns9427B14D01DEArolandkarlssonchello@130.133. 1.4...
>> "George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in newsK9pb.28259
>> $(E-Mail Removed):
>>
>>> Exactly what I said, but I used just your first line, for both sensors.

>>
>> Nope - you did not. Please compare your line with the actual sensor
>> that I described.
>>
>>> Your "Bayer sensor" senses 24 pixels of full color information.

>>
>> No it has not - that is not how Bayer interpolation works.

>
> It knows colors that it doesn't sense? That is neat!
>
>>> 24 compared to 96, but with the exact same MP rating on the store shelf.

>>
>> This is one of your main beliefs, is it not? To try to
>> make wrong into right by telling the world that there
>> is an injustice made against Foveon from the Bayer
>> community?

>
> You posted those samples, I agreed with them. Your diagrams were right,
> there is a 4:1 Foveon advantange at the same MP rating, since the Foveon X3
> physically senses 3X the information per pixel, but doesn't then have to
> throw away 25% of the color information due to 2x2 unit scaling
> inefficiencies when used to sense only 3 primary colors.
>
>> Unfortunately, there exist no Bayer community. Bayer filtered
>> sensors is just a technology. A good technology to solve
>> the problems of color sensors. Another good technology is
>> the Foveon technology. It is patented and only Foveon can
>> currently use it. Soon someone will come up with an even
>> better method of doing color pictures, maybe with a true
>> RGB sensor at each pixel.

>
> Too late, Foveon already senses true RGB at every pixel.
>
>

George you JUST MUST get out for some air every once in awhile. I suggest
that you read Miss Manners for an occasional break. She is SO stimulating.
You horizons will be broadened immensely...


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Nils Rostedt
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      11-02-2003

>> Soon someone will come up with an even
> > better method of doing color pictures, maybe with a true
> > RGB sensor at each pixel.

>
> Too late, Foveon already senses true RGB at every pixel.
>


Hmm... according to one source the Foveon "RGB pixel" is actually a
concentric 3-ring "bullseye". This implies firstly, that different colors
are sensed at spatially different locations. Secondly, that each primary
color is sensed by only 1/3 of the pixel's total area. This brings the
Foveon color resolution capability closer to that of a Bayer sensor than is
claimed by some of the numbers we've seen. Comments?



 
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Roland Karlsson
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      11-02-2003
"Nils Rostedt" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:bo3rd1$16ed7p$1@ID-
88261.news.uni-berlin.de:

> Hmm... according to one source the Foveon "RGB pixel" is actually a
> concentric 3-ring "bullseye". This implies firstly, that different colors
> are sensed at spatially different locations. Secondly, that each primary
> color is sensed by only 1/3 of the pixel's total area. This brings the
> Foveon color resolution capability closer to that of a Bayer sensor than

is
> claimed by some of the numbers we've seen. Comments?


No - not really.

It is true that the areas for the three sensors are different,
but it is not concentric circles. The different areas is a
slight problem though.

The main objective to an RGB sensor is that the three sensors
do not detect anything closely resembling R, G and B. They
have different color spectrums, but you have to apply a rather
strong conversion matrix to get R, G and B. This conversion
makes the purity of the R, G and B colors questionable,
making it harder to get good color balance and large gamut.


Roland
 
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