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Sigma/Foveon change their tune (great technical article)

 
 
George Preddy
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      10-27-2003
From: http://www.x3f.info/technotes/x3pixel/pixelpage.html

-----

Addendum of October, 2003

Since the above "technote" was written in the fall of 2002, in reaction to
customers wondering why Foveon and Sigma did not clearly state that the SD9
was either a 3.4 megapixel or a 10.2 megapixel camera, we have had more
experience with the proposed terminology in the marketplace. Many catalogs
and reviews have not been able to accomodate the proposed terminology
changes, and needed to put a single number into a megapixel slot;
unfortunately they sometimes chose the 3.4 MP number. This number is very
misleading, as it suggests that the SD9 is in some sense in the same
category as 3 to 4 MP cameras, when in the fact the SD9 is delivering image
resolution and sharpness that is outstanding in the DSLR category of 6 to 14
MP.

In response to this misleading information in the marketplace, Sigma and
Foveon now agree and insist that if only a single megapixel number can be
used, then the 10.2 MP number, based on the number of photodetectors, is the
only possibility. It is an objective count of the same kind of detector
elements as are usually counted as megapixels. It is incomplete in that it
does not fully represent the novel organization of pixel sensors into stacks
of three, which allows image capture free of color artifacts and allows all
the sharpness to fit naturally into a smaller output file. When more
information can be used, a notation such as "10.2 MP (3.4 MP Red + 3.4 MP
Green + 3.4 MP Blue)" is appropriate.




 
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Todd Walker
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-27-2003
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:56:05 +0900, "George Preddy"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>From: http://www.x3f.info/technotes/x3pixel/pixelpage.html
>
>-----
>
>Addendum of October, 2003
>
>Since the above "technote" was written in the fall of 2002, in reaction to
>customers wondering why Foveon and Sigma did not clearly state that the SD9
>was either a 3.4 megapixel or a 10.2 megapixel camera, we have had more
>experience with the proposed terminology in the marketplace. Many catalogs
>and reviews have not been able to accomodate the proposed terminology
>changes, and needed to put a single number into a megapixel slot;
>unfortunately they sometimes chose the 3.4 MP number. This number is very
>misleading, as it suggests that the SD9 is in some sense in the same
>category as 3 to 4 MP cameras, when in the fact the SD9 is delivering image
>resolution and sharpness that is outstanding in the DSLR category of 6 to 14
>MP.
>
>In response to this misleading information in the marketplace, Sigma and
>Foveon now agree and insist that if only a single megapixel number can be
>used, then the 10.2 MP number, based on the number of photodetectors, is the
>only possibility. It is an objective count of the same kind of detector
>elements as are usually counted as megapixels. It is incomplete in that it
>does not fully represent the novel organization of pixel sensors into stacks
>of three, which allows image capture free of color artifacts and allows all
>the sharpness to fit naturally into a smaller output file. When more
>information can be used, a notation such as "10.2 MP (3.4 MP Red + 3.4 MP
>Green + 3.4 MP Blue)" is appropriate.


Great! So glad this came from an UNBIASED source.

________________________
Todd Walker
http://www.toddwalker.net
Canon 10D
http://www.toddwalker.net/canon10d
________________________
 
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Tony Spadaro
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-27-2003
In other words they have decided to lie because no one is going to buy the
camera unless they do. Very smart move which will really help them get good
customer relations. Friends don't let friends buy Sigma.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
"George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bnjjqe$e0u$(E-Mail Removed)...
> From: http://www.x3f.info/technotes/x3pixel/pixelpage.html
>
> -----
>
> Addendum of October, 2003
>
> Since the above "technote" was written in the fall of 2002, in reaction to
> customers wondering why Foveon and Sigma did not clearly state that the

SD9
> was either a 3.4 megapixel or a 10.2 megapixel camera, we have had more
> experience with the proposed terminology in the marketplace. Many catalogs
> and reviews have not been able to accomodate the proposed terminology
> changes, and needed to put a single number into a megapixel slot;
> unfortunately they sometimes chose the 3.4 MP number. This number is very
> misleading, as it suggests that the SD9 is in some sense in the same
> category as 3 to 4 MP cameras, when in the fact the SD9 is delivering

image
> resolution and sharpness that is outstanding in the DSLR category of 6 to

14
> MP.
>
> In response to this misleading information in the marketplace, Sigma and
> Foveon now agree and insist that if only a single megapixel number can be
> used, then the 10.2 MP number, based on the number of photodetectors, is

the
> only possibility. It is an objective count of the same kind of detector
> elements as are usually counted as megapixels. It is incomplete in that it
> does not fully represent the novel organization of pixel sensors into

stacks
> of three, which allows image capture free of color artifacts and allows

all
> the sharpness to fit naturally into a smaller output file. When more
> information can be used, a notation such as "10.2 MP (3.4 MP Red + 3.4 MP
> Green + 3.4 MP Blue)" is appropriate.
>
>
>
>



 
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Simon Stanmore
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-27-2003
George - you'll find this of great interest I think ...
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/SSD10/SD10A.HTM ... the Foveon sensor
now has micro-lenses and has lost its *false* aliasing sharpness
characteristic as a result. Still, the cam' and its software look to be well
improved IMHO

Simon


 
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Alfred Molon
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-27-2003
yawn
 
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Alan Browne
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      10-27-2003



This is not a "great technical article" it is manifestation of Sigma
realizing that they are not selling the SD-9, the Foveon chip and Sigma
lenses and accessories.




George Preddy wrote:

> From: http://www.x3f.info/technotes/x3pixel/pixelpage.html
>
> -----
>
> Addendum of October, 2003
>
> Since the above "technote" was written in the fall of 2002, in reaction to
> customers wondering why Foveon and Sigma did not clearly state that the SD9
> was either a 3.4 megapixel or a 10.2 megapixel camera, we have had more
> experience with the proposed terminology in the marketplace. Many catalogs
> and reviews have not been able to accomodate the proposed terminology
> changes, and needed to put a single number into a megapixel slot;
> unfortunately they sometimes chose the 3.4 MP number. This number is very
> misleading, as it suggests that the SD9 is in some sense in the same
> category as 3 to 4 MP cameras, when in the fact the SD9 is delivering image
> resolution and sharpness that is outstanding in the DSLR category of 6 to 14
> MP.
>
> In response to this misleading information in the marketplace, Sigma and
> Foveon now agree and insist that if only a single megapixel number can be
> used, then the 10.2 MP number, based on the number of photodetectors, is the
> only possibility. It is an objective count of the same kind of detector
> elements as are usually counted as megapixels. It is incomplete in that it
> does not fully represent the novel organization of pixel sensors into stacks
> of three, which allows image capture free of color artifacts and allows all
> the sharpness to fit naturally into a smaller output file. When more
> information can be used, a notation such as "10.2 MP (3.4 MP Red + 3.4 MP
> Green + 3.4 MP Blue)" is appropriate.
>
>
>
>


 
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jriegle
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-27-2003
They can say what they want. It all gets sorted out in the camera tests.

The Foveon sensor had some potential. The 3.43 mp sensor was slightly better
than the 6mp Canon D-SLR in the side-by-side test on dpreview except that
the Foveon was free of the artifacts found in the bayer sensor cameras. This
is considering the Foveon image was resampled to a 6mp image! It just shows
all the processing that must be done to bayer sensors thanks to the spatial
relationship of each color sensing site on the CCD/CMOS chip. It really made
the bayer sensors look ugly.

I'm still going to buy the Canon. I'm not putting my eggs in the Sigma
basket. I hope Foveon finds its way out of Sigma.
John


"George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bnjjqe$e0u$(E-Mail Removed)...
> From: http://www.x3f.info/technotes/x3pixel/pixelpage.html
>
> -----
>
> Addendum of October, 2003
>
> Since the above "technote" was written in the fall of 2002, in reaction to
> customers wondering why Foveon and Sigma did not clearly state that the

SD9
> was either a 3.4 megapixel or a 10.2 megapixel camera, we have had more
> experience with the proposed terminology in the marketplace. Many catalogs
> and reviews have not been able to accomodate the proposed terminology
> changes, and needed to put a single number into a megapixel slot;
> unfortunately they sometimes chose the 3.4 MP number. This number is very
> misleading, as it suggests that the SD9 is in some sense in the same
> category as 3 to 4 MP cameras, when in the fact the SD9 is delivering

image
> resolution and sharpness that is outstanding in the DSLR category of 6 to

14
> MP.
>
> In response to this misleading information in the marketplace, Sigma and
> Foveon now agree and insist that if only a single megapixel number can be
> used, then the 10.2 MP number, based on the number of photodetectors, is

the
> only possibility. It is an objective count of the same kind of detector
> elements as are usually counted as megapixels. It is incomplete in that it
> does not fully represent the novel organization of pixel sensors into

stacks
> of three, which allows image capture free of color artifacts and allows

all
> the sharpness to fit naturally into a smaller output file. When more
> information can be used, a notation such as "10.2 MP (3.4 MP Red + 3.4 MP
> Green + 3.4 MP Blue)" is appropriate.
>
>
>
>



 
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Albert Nurick
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-27-2003
"George Preddy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:bnjjqe$e0u$(E-Mail Removed):

> [...] Many catalogs and reviews have not been able to
> accomodate the proposed terminology changes, and needed to put a
> single number into a megapixel slot; unfortunately they sometimes
> chose the 3.4 MP number. This number is very misleading, as it
> suggests that the SD9 is in some sense in the same category as 3 to 4
> MP cameras, when in the fact the SD9 is delivering image resolution
> and sharpness that is outstanding in the DSLR category of 6 to 14 MP.


Sounds like Sigma marketing hype to me. When the output file is
2268x1512, that ain't 10 megapixels.

Of course, it might be tough to sell a 3.4 megapixel DSLR these days, so
the marketing department has to switch into high gear. I sure hope they
didn't threaten those who don't parrot their hype.

Rational folks realize that an unbiased source should be used, not the
camera maker. Let's look at what the reviewers are getting in terms of
resolution. From Imaging Resource:

Sigma SD10:

"As before, the 3.4-megapixel 3-color-per-pixel Foveon sensor in the SD10
produces overall resolution approaching that of a 6-megapixel sensor
using a conventional color filter array pattern, with "strong detail"
present in the laboratory resolution test image out to about 1,050 lines
vertically, and 1,200 lines horizontally."

Canon 10D:

"I found "strong detail" out to at least 1,400 lines horizontally and
1200 vertically, although there was still meaningful detail beyond that
point. "Extinction" of the target patterns didn't occur until about 1,550
lines. "

Sounds like Sigma can demand that folks call it a 10MP, but the
resolution falls short of their 6MP competition.

If it's a 10MP camera, it's a really, really bad one.

--
Albert Nurick www.TheDeliciousLife.com
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) A guide to the good life
www.nurick.com in Houston, Texas
 
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Darrell
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-27-2003

"Simon Stanmore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> George - you'll find this of great interest I think ...
> http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/SSD10/SD10A.HTM ... the Foveon

sensor
> now has micro-lenses and has lost its *false* aliasing sharpness
> characteristic as a result. Still, the cam' and its software look to be

well
> improved IMHO
>

Too bad the micro-lenses are Sigma's



 
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Lionel
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-27-2003
"Simon Stanmore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> George - you'll find this of great interest I think ...
> http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/SSD10/SD10A.HTM ... the Foveon sensor
> now has micro-lenses and has lost its *false* aliasing sharpness
> characteristic as a result. Still, the cam' and its software look to be well
> improved IMHO
>
> Simon


Simon will you kindly do some REAL research before posting this tripe
 
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