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Nikon 8000 scanner, banding

 
 
nobody nowhere
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-12-2003
I seem unable to get rid of banding. 1/6 of the picture, on the left,
dark tree. The rest of the picture is a white building. CCD scanning,
superfine is ticked. I tried multi sample scanning as well, 4 and even
16 passes, but the banding in the dark part of the picture still there.
It becomes only too evident when I select the dark part and then try to
make it less dark by using levels. Rather disappointing, since I was
assured in the past that it was enough to tick "superfine" and the
banding will go away, and it did on every other similar occasion until
now. Thanks in advance for any comments and suggestions.

Nobody

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Bill Hilton
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      10-13-2003
>From: nobody nowhere http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)

>I seem unable to get rid of banding. 1/6 of the picture, on the left,
>dark tree. The rest of the picture is a white building. CCD scanning,
>superfine is ticked.


If you have 'superfine' checked then it's not banding as the rest of us know
the term. Not saying you don't have a real problem, just that as it's defined
'banding' is only possible with superfine unchecked so it's likely something
else.

Do you have ICE on? Is the film Kodachrome?

Can you post a sample crop of this scan showing the problem so other 8000
owners can see it and offer other suggestions?

>Rather disappointing, since I was
>assured in the past that it was enough to tick "superfine" and the
>banding will go away, and it did on every other similar occasion until
>now.


How often do you see 'banding' with superfine unchecked? For most of us it's
very rare, maybe one in a hundred scans. Some people never see it. If your
ratio is a lot higher than 1% then maybe your machine is way out of calibration
or something?

Bill
 
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nobody nowhere
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2003
Thank you Bill, you do look after me! Today by 3am I was still at it
trying to ascertain the cause. ICE is on. The film is medium format,
Fuji RVP (presumably Velvia?). This has never happened to me before,
after I ticked "superfine". If I don't try to lighten up the dark side
of the picture (with levels), there is no banding on the print, however,
the amount of black seems to me too much. When I look more carefully at
the monitor (CRT), and magnify the image, there seems to be no banding,
so I assume it might be a printer problem. But in this case, what kind
of problem? The nozzle check, and other "utility" checks were ok. I
shall try to replace the black cartridge with a new one, just in case.
Is it possible that the banding is there, on the monitor screen, but I
cannot see it even at high magnification? The screen is reasonably
calibrated, I think. If the problem does not go away, I shall post a
sample for other 8000 owners to comment, as you suggest. Thank you
very much once again.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Bill Hilton
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>From: nobody nowhere (E-Mail Removed)

>
>>I seem unable to get rid of banding. 1/6 of the picture, on the left,
>>dark tree. The rest of the picture is a white building. CCD scanning,
>>superfine is ticked.

>
>If you have 'superfine' checked then it's not banding as the rest of us know
>the term. Not saying you don't have a real problem, just that as it's defined
>'banding' is only possible with superfine unchecked so it's likely something
>else.
>
>Do you have ICE on? Is the film Kodachrome?
>
>Can you post a sample crop of this scan showing the problem so other 8000
>owners can see it and offer other suggestions?
>
>>Rather disappointing, since I was
>>assured in the past that it was enough to tick "superfine" and the
>>banding will go away, and it did on every other similar occasion until
>>now.

>
>How often do you see 'banding' with superfine unchecked? For most of us it's
>very rare, maybe one in a hundred scans. Some people never see it. If your
>ratio is a lot higher than 1% then maybe your machine is way out of calibration
>or something?
>
>Bill



Nobody


 
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nobody nowhere
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2003
Further to my article below, replacing the black cartridge did not work.
After I lighten up with levels, I get a number of very visible dark
horizontal lines of various thickness and distances between them. The
pattern is thin and frequent horizontal lines towards the bottom and top
end of the problem area, whilst the lines are getting thicker and rarer
towards the middle of the problem area. I cannot post the relevant part
of the picture, as suggested by Bill, because these lines do not seem to
appear on the monitor, as far as I can tell, and even if they were
there, they would be far less noticeable than on the print. What do I
do? Thanks in advance, in particular to Bill.

In article <TGy5wIAzZmi$(E-Mail Removed)>, nobody nowhere
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>Thank you Bill, you do look after me! Today by 3am I was still at it
>trying to ascertain the cause. ICE is on. The film is medium format,
>Fuji RVP (presumably Velvia?). This has never happened to me before,
>after I ticked "superfine". If I don't try to lighten up the dark side
>of the picture (with levels), there is no banding on the print, however,
>the amount of black seems to me too much. When I look more carefully at
>the monitor (CRT), and magnify the image, there seems to be no banding,
>so I assume it might be a printer problem. But in this case, what kind
>of problem? The nozzle check, and other "utility" checks were ok. I
>shall try to replace the black cartridge with a new one, just in case.
>Is it possible that the banding is there, on the monitor screen, but I
>cannot see it even at high magnification? The screen is reasonably
>calibrated, I think. If the problem does not go away, I shall post a
>sample for other 8000 owners to comment, as you suggest. Thank you
>very much once again.
>
>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Bill Hilton
><(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>>From: nobody nowhere (E-Mail Removed)

>>
>>>I seem unable to get rid of banding. 1/6 of the picture, on the left,
>>>dark tree. The rest of the picture is a white building. CCD scanning,
>>>superfine is ticked.

>>
>>If you have 'superfine' checked then it's not banding as the rest of us know
>>the term. Not saying you don't have a real problem, just that as it's defined
>>'banding' is only possible with superfine unchecked so it's likely something
>>else.
>>
>>Do you have ICE on? Is the film Kodachrome?
>>
>>Can you post a sample crop of this scan showing the problem so other 8000
>>owners can see it and offer other suggestions?
>>
>>>Rather disappointing, since I was
>>>assured in the past that it was enough to tick "superfine" and the
>>>banding will go away, and it did on every other similar occasion until
>>>now.

>>
>>How often do you see 'banding' with superfine unchecked? For most of us it's
>>very rare, maybe one in a hundred scans. Some people never see it. If your
>>ratio is a lot higher than 1% then maybe your machine is way out of calibration
>>or something?
>>
>>Bill

>
>
>Nobody
>
>



Nobody
 
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Bart van der Wolf
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2003

"nobody nowhere" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:i5$GYJAZuni$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Further to my article below, replacing the black cartridge did not work.


SNIP

If you want to make sure the printer is causing this, rotate the image 90
degrees and print again. Maybe it's the paper used, or the climatic
situation, or the printhead/cartridge (which printer are you using?).

Bart


 
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David J. Littleboy
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2003

"nobody nowhere" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:i5$GYJAZuni$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Further to my article below, replacing the black cartridge did not work.
> After I lighten up with levels, I get a number of very visible dark
> horizontal lines of various thickness and distances between them. The
> pattern is thin and frequent horizontal lines towards the bottom and top
> end of the problem area, whilst the lines are getting thicker and rarer
> towards the middle of the problem area. I cannot post the relevant part
> of the picture, as suggested by Bill, because these lines do not seem to
> appear on the monitor, as far as I can tell, and even if they were
> there, they would be far less noticeable than on the print. What do I
> do? Thanks in advance, in particular to Bill.


If you can't see the lines on the monitor, even at 200% or 300% view in you
image editor, then they're not there in the image, and it's not the scanner.

Your printer driver should have a nozzle cleaning utililty. That might help.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


 
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Bill Hilton
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2003
>From: nobody nowhere (E-Mail Removed)

>After I lighten up with levels, I get a number of very visible dark
>horizontal lines of various thickness and distances between them.
> ...
> If I don't try to lighten up the dark side
>of the picture (with levels), there is no banding on the print


Definitely not the *banding* problem with the scanner, so it's either the
printer or you're introducing banding during post-processing.

Can you print the file on someone else's printer, or get a print of a crop of
the darker area at a cheapo place nearby? (Here in the US one can take the
file to Sam's or Wal-Mart and get a small print for a few cents, for example).
This might tell you if the file has been damaged or if it's the printer. If
you're getting a small print done then crop a section of the starting image so
the small print is proportionally the same as your big print (in other words if
you're printing 8x10 and seeing the problem then crop 1/4 of your file and have
it printed 4x5 at the same resolution so it's the same as a 4x5" section from
the original since a problem could be visible or not at different print
resolutions).

If it's the printer (I think you have the Epson 1280, right?) it might be a
slight head misalignment with the black nozzles, which you can check for in the
Utilities, just run the head alignment test. You might also print three times
at 720, 1440 and 2880 dpi and see if it gets better or worse (it might go away
or be minimized at 2880 for example and be very noticeable at 720). If it
occurs in just one area you can crop this and print on the same piece of paper
easily enough to avoid wasting paper.

If it's not the printer and you don't see the problem before you make your
edits then it might be banding introduced during your Photoshop maneuvers.
Check the histogram and see if you have wide comb-like gaps in the shadows
after edits. If you do then maybe try to re-scan in 14 bit/channel mode and
make the edits there, then convert to 8 bits and print. If this is really the
cause of the problems then you could win $100 in the "Prove 16 bits is better
than 8 bits" contest (grin), so it's not a common thing. But worth checking
out.

I'd put the odds at 90% on a slight printer head misalignment and 10% on a "16
vs 8 bit" editing problem.

>The film is medium format, Fuji RVP (presumably Velvia?).


Velvia scans great, we've made excellent prints up to 20x24" with Nikon 8000
scans of Velvia, so that's not the problem.

Keep at it, you'll get it solved.

Bill
 
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PiZzazA
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2003
Sound like that you are using Epson printers. They are notorious for banding
if you do not use their OEM ink. It is very difficult to fix the problem
yourselves no matter how many times you do clean the nozzles with the
utilities. I dumped Epson because I had the same problem with two printers
that were less than 6 month old. I am happy owner of Canon printers now.

To repair this problem, you may want to search the web for help. There were
talks about using steam etc. You can also buy cleaning cartredges for it.
But they are not cheap.

"nobody nowhere" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:i5$GYJAZuni$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Further to my article below, replacing the black cartridge did not work.
> After I lighten up with levels, I get a number of very visible dark
> horizontal lines of various thickness and distances between them. The
> pattern is thin and frequent horizontal lines towards the bottom and top
> end of the problem area, whilst the lines are getting thicker and rarer
> towards the middle of the problem area. I cannot post the relevant part
> of the picture, as suggested by Bill, because these lines do not seem to
> appear on the monitor, as far as I can tell, and even if they were
> there, they would be far less noticeable than on the print. What do I
> do? Thanks in advance, in particular to Bill.
>
> In article <TGy5wIAzZmi$(E-Mail Removed)>, nobody nowhere
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
> >Thank you Bill, you do look after me! Today by 3am I was still at it
> >trying to ascertain the cause. ICE is on. The film is medium format,
> >Fuji RVP (presumably Velvia?). This has never happened to me before,
> >after I ticked "superfine". If I don't try to lighten up the dark side
> >of the picture (with levels), there is no banding on the print, however,
> >the amount of black seems to me too much. When I look more carefully at
> >the monitor (CRT), and magnify the image, there seems to be no banding,
> >so I assume it might be a printer problem. But in this case, what kind
> >of problem? The nozzle check, and other "utility" checks were ok. I
> >shall try to replace the black cartridge with a new one, just in case.
> >Is it possible that the banding is there, on the monitor screen, but I
> >cannot see it even at high magnification? The screen is reasonably
> >calibrated, I think. If the problem does not go away, I shall post a
> >sample for other 8000 owners to comment, as you suggest. Thank you
> >very much once again.
> >
> >In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Bill Hilton
> ><(E-Mail Removed)> writes
> >>>From: nobody nowhere (E-Mail Removed)
> >>
> >>>I seem unable to get rid of banding. 1/6 of the picture, on the left,
> >>>dark tree. The rest of the picture is a white building. CCD scanning,
> >>>superfine is ticked.
> >>
> >>If you have 'superfine' checked then it's not banding as the rest of us

know
> >>the term. Not saying you don't have a real problem, just that as it's

defined
> >>'banding' is only possible with superfine unchecked so it's likely

something
> >>else.
> >>
> >>Do you have ICE on? Is the film Kodachrome?
> >>
> >>Can you post a sample crop of this scan showing the problem so other

8000
> >>owners can see it and offer other suggestions?
> >>
> >>>Rather disappointing, since I was
> >>>assured in the past that it was enough to tick "superfine" and the
> >>>banding will go away, and it did on every other similar occasion until
> >>>now.
> >>
> >>How often do you see 'banding' with superfine unchecked? For most of us

it's
> >>very rare, maybe one in a hundred scans. Some people never see it. If

your
> >>ratio is a lot higher than 1% then maybe your machine is way out of

calibration
> >>or something?
> >>
> >>Bill

> >
> >
> >Nobody
> >
> >

>
>
> Nobody



 
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nobody nowhere
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2003
Thank you, I am using the 1290. I have done what you said, and now I am
getting not only horizontal, but also vertical "bands" from the same
dark part of the picture (the one which previously produced only
horizontal "bands"). I shall try a few other things, including those
recommended by others, and report accordingly. These things are sent to
try us...

In article <3f8aaced$0$58706$(E-Mail Removed)4all.nl>, Bart van der Wolf
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>
>"nobody nowhere" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:i5$GYJAZuni$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Further to my article below, replacing the black cartridge did not work.

>
>SNIP
>
>If you want to make sure the printer is causing this, rotate the image 90
>degrees and print again. Maybe it's the paper used, or the climatic
>situation, or the printhead/cartridge (which printer are you using?).
>
>Bart
>
>



Nobody
 
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nobody nowhere
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2003
Thank you. I have tried to magnify again, and there might, repeat, might
be some horizontal very fade lines in the scanned image on the monitor,
but I cannot be certain, because these "bands", if this is what they
are, are hardly noticeable, and might not be there. The nozzle check
was ok, and this I is why I have not done a clean, but shall do one now,
to see what it does.

In article <bme43b$5qp$(E-Mail Removed)>, David J. Littleboy
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>
>"nobody nowhere" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:i5$GYJAZuni$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Further to my article below, replacing the black cartridge did not work.
>> After I lighten up with levels, I get a number of very visible dark
>> horizontal lines of various thickness and distances between them. The
>> pattern is thin and frequent horizontal lines towards the bottom and top
>> end of the problem area, whilst the lines are getting thicker and rarer
>> towards the middle of the problem area. I cannot post the relevant part
>> of the picture, as suggested by Bill, because these lines do not seem to
>> appear on the monitor, as far as I can tell, and even if they were
>> there, they would be far less noticeable than on the print. What do I
>> do? Thanks in advance, in particular to Bill.

>
>If you can't see the lines on the monitor, even at 200% or 300% view in you
>image editor, then they're not there in the image, and it's not the scanner.
>
>Your printer driver should have a nozzle cleaning utililty. That might help.
>
>David J. Littleboy
>Tokyo, Japan
>
>



Nobody
 
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