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Digital cameras and high speed photography

 
 
Eigenvector
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      08-03-2003
Is there a camera out there that will simulate or reproduce the abilities of
high speed cameras. I don't have the exact term in my head, so I'll
describe it as the type of camera that you would use to photograph bullets
in flight or very high speed actions. Normally I see this done with film
cameras, but with the advent of the digital camera is there something on the
market that is accessible to the average person?

I realize this is more of a motion camera question, but is there really any
big difference between a digital motion camera and a photograph digital
camera these days - and does there need to be a difference?


 
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Tom Thackrey
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      08-03-2003

On 3-Aug-2003, "Eigenvector" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Is there a camera out there that will simulate or reproduce the abilities
> of
> high speed cameras. I don't have the exact term in my head, so I'll
> describe it as the type of camera that you would use to photograph bullets
> in flight or very high speed actions. Normally I see this done with film
> cameras, but with the advent of the digital camera is there something on
> the
> market that is accessible to the average person?
>
> I realize this is more of a motion camera question, but is there really
> any
> big difference between a digital motion camera and a photograph digital
> camera these days - and does there need to be a difference?


Capturing high speed motion, like a bullet, is usually done in a dark room
with an open shutter and a strobe light that is tripped by the object being
photographed (the bullet for example). Pretty much any digital camera with
manual settings would work. Get an external strobe with a pc connector and
make a cable. The trick is the trigger timing.


--
Tom Thackrey
www.creative-light.com
 
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Frank ess
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      08-03-2003

"Eigenvector" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hEgXa.2317$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Is there a camera out there that will simulate or reproduce the abilities

of
> high speed cameras. I don't have the exact term in my head, so I'll
> describe it as the type of camera that you would use to photograph bullets
> in flight or very high speed actions. Normally I see this done with film
> cameras, but with the advent of the digital camera is there something on

the
> market that is accessible to the average person?
>
> I realize this is more of a motion camera question, but is there really

any
> big difference between a digital motion camera and a photograph digital
> camera these days - and does there need to be a difference?
>
>


Do you know how fast those stop-a-bullet cameras run? Something like 10K
frames per second. The way they used to do it, they used a lot of cameras. I
think the state of CCDs or whatever is such that the latter would be a more
likely solution.

The guy who invented that ultra-high-speed camera approach was named "Doc"
Edgerton. Look him up. Another true innovator.

Frank ess


 
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Ed Ruf
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      08-04-2003
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 23:29:29 GMT, in rec.photo.digital "Frank ess"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Do you know how fast those stop-a-bullet cameras run? Something like 10K
>frames per second. The way they used to do it, they used a lot of cameras. I
>think the state of CCDs or whatever is such that the latter would be a more
>likely solution.
>
>The guy who invented that ultra-high-speed camera approach was named "Doc"
>Edgerton. Look him up. Another true innovator.


Actually Edgerton, of EE&G fame, made use of strobe photography.
http://www.engineerguy.com/comm/3758.htm
Fast light sources were also used before him Ernst Mach took the first
photos of the shock waves off the nose of a bullet in the late 1800's
__________________________________________________ ______
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ((E-Mail Removed))
http://members.cox.net/egruf
See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
http://members.cox.net/egruf-digicam
 
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Grunty Grogan
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      08-04-2003
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 23:24:19 GMT, "Tom Thackrey"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Capturing high speed motion, like a bullet, is usually done in a dark room
>with an open shutter and a strobe light that is tripped by the object being
>photographed (the bullet for example). Pretty much any digital camera with
>manual settings would work. Get an external strobe with a pc connector and
>make a cable. The trick is the trigger timing.


Pretty easy, though I have not tried with with a digital yet...Did it
in my darkroom past.Pentax, Strobonar 880 with a mirror taped to the
sensor so the quech tube would fire instantly to give me about a
microsecond flash duration.
Glue a piece of aluminum foil to each side of a 70mm slide mount (Or
other cardboard "window") with doublesided tape, being careful the
sheets do not touch. Tape a wire to each sheet, and connect the wires
to the strobe input. Place the slidemount assembly in the bullet's
line of flight.
In calculating the required flash duration, a bullet at Mach 1 (9/mm,
..22LR) will traverse a foot in about a millisecond. The results are
not worthy of Edgarton, but the rifling marks will easily be
photographed.

You can use the foil switch trick to catch the old "Hammer and
Lightbulb" photo..very impressive, and always comes out well; Rest the
bulb carefully on the foilswitch, wind up with a hammer and (try) to
hit it in the darlk. The hammer is usually only moving about 20-30
feet per second, so it's easy to catch, usually showing cracks
propagating, with the top of the bulb collapsing.
 
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Charlie D
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      08-04-2003
In article <hEgXa.2317$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Eigenvector" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Is there a camera out there that will simulate or reproduce the abilities of
> high speed cameras. I don't have the exact term in my head, so I'll
> describe it as the type of camera that you would use to photograph bullets
> in flight or very high speed actions. Normally I see this done with film
> cameras, but with the advent of the digital camera is there something on the
> market that is accessible to the average person?
>
> I realize this is more of a motion camera question, but is there really any
> big difference between a digital motion camera and a photograph digital
> camera these days - and does there need to be a difference?


This isn't available to the average person, but...
In the August 2003 issue of the "American Rifleman" magazine they have
an article entitled, "the Guns of NASA." It discusses the high velocity
guns (up to 24,000 feet/second) they use to test the impacts of space
debris.

Here's what they say about their cameras:
"Three types of high speed cameras are used. Cinema cameras run at
10,000 frames/second; 35mm infrared cameras are capable of 2 million,
and the digital cameras are capable of 100 million frames per second."

For work done with a consumer digicam:
http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-agfa-1280-hs.html

--
Charlie Dilks
Newark, DE USA
 
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MarkH
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      08-04-2003
"Eigenvector" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:hEgXa.2317$(E-Mail Removed):

> Is there a camera out there that will simulate or reproduce the
> abilities of high speed cameras. I don't have the exact term in my
> head, so I'll describe it as the type of camera that you would use to
> photograph bullets in flight or very high speed actions. Normally I
> see this done with film cameras, but with the advent of the digital
> camera is there something on the market that is accessible to the
> average person?


Is there any film camera on the market, capable of this, that is accessible
to the average person?

My suspicion is that there is no camera of any kind with this sort of
capability, that is not horribly expensive.





--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"

 
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Eigenvector
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      08-04-2003

"Grunty Grogan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 23:24:19 GMT, "Tom Thackrey"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >Capturing high speed motion, like a bullet, is usually done in a dark

room
> >with an open shutter and a strobe light that is tripped by the object

being
> >photographed (the bullet for example). Pretty much any digital camera

with
> >manual settings would work. Get an external strobe with a pc connector

and
> >make a cable. The trick is the trigger timing.

>
> Pretty easy, though I have not tried with with a digital yet...Did it
> in my darkroom past.Pentax, Strobonar 880 with a mirror taped to the
> sensor so the quech tube would fire instantly to give me about a
> microsecond flash duration.
> Glue a piece of aluminum foil to each side of a 70mm slide mount (Or
> other cardboard "window") with doublesided tape, being careful the
> sheets do not touch. Tape a wire to each sheet, and connect the wires
> to the strobe input. Place the slidemount assembly in the bullet's
> line of flight.
> In calculating the required flash duration, a bullet at Mach 1 (9/mm,
> .22LR) will traverse a foot in about a millisecond. The results are
> not worthy of Edgarton, but the rifling marks will easily be
> photographed.
>
> You can use the foil switch trick to catch the old "Hammer and
> Lightbulb" photo..very impressive, and always comes out well; Rest the
> bulb carefully on the foilswitch, wind up with a hammer and (try) to
> hit it in the darlk. The hammer is usually only moving about 20-30
> feet per second, so it's easy to catch, usually showing cracks
> propagating, with the top of the bulb collapsing.


Cool, I might just have to try that one. It doesn't sound too tough to do
then, might take a little money but that can be overcome somehow.

Okay thanks guys, I appreciate the tips. Second question, does anyone know
if you can externally trigger an Olympus C720, rather than using the button
on the camera? Olympus' website was ambiguous to me, and I've also heard
yes and no from other sources?


 
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Don
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      08-04-2003
The film camera that was used years ago, the Fastex (sp?) had variable frame
rate up to 10,000 or so frames per second. It was used in conjunction with
a strobe light to freeze the motion. I don't see any way to do that with a
digital, as the bandwidth requirements for the focal plane and memory would
be enormous.

Don

--
Experience is what lets you recognize
a mistake when you make it again.


"Eigenvector" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hEgXa.2317$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Is there a camera out there that will simulate or reproduce the abilities

of
> high speed cameras. I don't have the exact term in my head, so I'll
> describe it as the type of camera that you would use to photograph bullets
> in flight or very high speed actions. Normally I see this done with film
> cameras, but with the advent of the digital camera is there something on

the
> market that is accessible to the average person?
>
> I realize this is more of a motion camera question, but is there really

any
> big difference between a digital motion camera and a photograph digital
> camera these days - and does there need to be a difference?
>
>




 
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Lionel
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-04-2003
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:49:18 -0700, in
<GrlXa.388$(E-Mail Removed)2.webusenet.com>, "Don"
<(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>The film camera that was used years ago, the Fastex (sp?) had variable frame
>rate up to 10,000 or so frames per second. It was used in conjunction with
>a strobe light to freeze the motion. I don't see any way to do that with a
>digital, as the bandwidth requirements for the focal plane and memory would
>be enormous.


Yes.
OTOH, modern strobes & triggering electronics are much, much more
sophisticated than they were even 10 years ago[0], so I see no reason
why one couldn't come up with a method that'd only require a single
exposure.

[0] Even when I was designing digital electronic systems ten years ago,
it was routine to process electronic events with durations as short as
10nS (10/1,000,000,000ths of a second).

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
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