«

Hello,

For those who have used the Grey Balancer software for their 2200 was it
worth the work, how long did it take to get it right and are the results
that much better than a good profile?

Thanks,

Cliff

>From: "Cliff Spicer"

>For those who have used the Grey Balancer software for their 2200 ...

Hey Cliff, did you get your custom profile for the 2200 back yet? And if so,
how much better is it than the canned ones from Lepp or Epson?

Bill

> Hey Cliff, did you get your custom profile for the 2200 back yet? And if
so,
> how much better is it than the canned ones from Lepp or Epson?
>
> Bill
>
Hi Bill,

I did get it back and was really disappointed. The highlights were blown
out, there was terrible tonal graduation and I found it had too much blue or
cyan (can't tell the difference). I emailed the person who made it and they
are on holidays so I'll keep you updated. I suspect it was either a really
rushed job before the vacation or someone less experienced did it. I am not
writing them off but $200 is out of my account and I am still using Epson's
profile.

Cliff

>From: "Cliff Spicer"

>For those who have used the Grey Balancer software for their 2200 was it
>worth the work, how long did it take to get it right and are the results
>that much better than a good profile?

Cliff, I haven't bothered trying to find this since I don't do a lot of
black/white, but here's a good write up on the topic by one of your fellow
Canadians ...

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...balancer.shtml There
are some other links at the bottom of that page.

Sorry to hear about the custom profile problems ... did they give you exact
instructions on how to set up the printer to use the profile? Usually that's
the problem when they don't work ...

Bill

Have either of you guys used the Lepp profile any any comments on it to
share please?
Warren

> > how much better is it than the canned ones from Lepp or Epson?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> Hi Bill,
>

>From: "Warren Jones"

>Have either of you guys used the Lepp profile any any comments on it to
>share please?

Yes, I downloaded the Lepp profiles when they were first available (they were
pulled back, I think for copyright reasons; not sure if they're still up
anywhere). I've printed the same test file on all 5 Epson papers supported by
both profiles (the Lepp set didn't have a profile for the Water Color - Radiant
White fine art paper) and also viewed the gamuts with ICC profile display
software.

Basically the Lepp files are about 10x larger (about 1 Mb each vs ~ 100K for
the Epson files), implying they were created with a test file with more color
samples. You'd expect them to be more accurate because of this since there are
more points in the look-up tables, though in practice I didn't see any great
differences.

The ICC plots indicate the Lepp profiles have a slightly wider gamut,
especially in the greens and yellows (depending on the paper).

The prints of the test file I used didn't show any great discrepancies between
the two except that light yellows in aspen trees were noticeably better on
Semi-gloss with the Lepp profile.

If you can find the Lepp versions they're worth downloading and trying out, but
the Epson ones still did a good job on my printer. As Cliff and I discussed
earlier, the 2200's are consumer grade printers and vary a bit from unit to
unit so YMMV.

Bill

"Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
news:...
> >From: "Cliff Spicer"
>
> >For those who have used the Grey Balancer software for their 2200 ...
>
> Hey Cliff, did you get your custom profile for the 2200 back yet? And if
so,
> how much better is it than the canned ones from Lepp or Epson?
>
> Bill
>
Hi Bill,

I received an e-mail from the fellow who was making my profile and I can
only say how disappointed I was in it. It appears because he couldn't get a
good profile he figures I must not be able to follow his instructions on how
to set-up the printer driver and wants me to hire him to come in to my place
for more $$ and have him do the exact same thing. So I didn't pay for the
profile but I did spend $25 couriering him the target and couriering him
samples of the poor results I got from his profile. Below is his message and
I think has blown me off because he hopes for less discriminating types so I
would not recommend those at www.colourmanagemt.ca

Cliff, I am sorry to say that something has gone wrong. It is unusual

for this to happen and without coming on site to check everything I

cannot tell you what is wrong. I have created profiles for over 50,

2200's and they are all much better than anything generic or Epson's

supplied profiles. What we are seeing on the outputs you sent me is

not characteristic of the custom profiles I create. I will tear up

your check - you will not be charged and I am sorry that things did

not work out. If you would like me to come on site I would be happy

to. But honestly you have a decent profile from what I saw in the

samples you sent me.



Angus Pady

"Bob O`Bob" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Cliff Spicer wrote:
>
> > I received an e-mail from the fellow who was making my profile and I can
> > only say how disappointed I was in it. It appears because he couldn't
get a
> > good profile he figures I must not be able to follow his instructions on
how
> > to set-up the printer driver and wants me to hire him to come in to my
place
> > for more $$ and have him do the exact same thing. So I didn't pay for
the
> > profile but I did spend $25 couriering him the target and couriering him
> > samples of the poor results I got from his profile. Below is his message
and
> > I think has blown me off because he hopes for less discriminating types
so I
> > would not recommend
>
>
> Actually, as an uninvolved party, I think your recommendation is weak,
> but -even though you don't seem to know it- still positive.
>
> You show that he didn't keep your payment since you weren't satisfied.
> That's mighty decent.
>
>
> You post as if the investment of time and resources which he must have
made
> is immaterial. Yet you had the opportunity to test with a custom profile.
> That it did not work for you is not proof of where the problem lies. Yes,
he
> may have been ineffective in creating a profile appropriate for your
printer,
> but that is only one of many possible interpretations. Whatever the
original
> agreed fee was, he invested proprotionately from his own time and
resources,
> and is willing to write that off because you weren't satisfied.
>
> That constitutes an unfortunate situation, but it's certainly no
condemnation
> of the vendor, nor the client. It's just an unfortunate situation, to
which
> the involved parties did not agree on further investment being warranted.
>
>
> I hope that anyone considering such services will read the whole thread.
>
> Thanks for giving the complete story - I think that shows you're also
aware
> of your own possible bias, and more interested in getting the whole story
out
> than just grousing about the unfortunate situation.
>
>
>
> Bob

Hi Bob,

I completely disagree with your interpretation of the situation. What you
are saying is the same as me going to photograph a couple's wedding with
their impression that they are getting a professional, spending the day
shooting it and not delivering what is promised. Even if I don't take the
couple's money should they feel bad for the time I spent? I realize this is
an exaggerated scenario but never the less as a professional I would go to
great lengths to do what I could to see if I could do anything more such as
shoot some portraits after the fact or whatever. I wouldn't just say,
"sorry, the last 50 weddings worked out but for some reason yours didn't.
Here is your money back." I believe that the fact the vendor did not make
any attempt to rectify this problem is a weak business practice and
demonstrates and the money being returned does not impress me in the same
way. With that said, it is an interesting discussion and I appreciated the
points you have raised.

Cliff

"Cliff Spicer" <> wrote in message
news:%xDTa.6861$...
>
> "Bob O`Bob" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > Cliff Spicer wrote:
> >
> > > I received an e-mail from the fellow who was making my profile and I
can
> > > only say how disappointed I was in it. It appears because he couldn't
> get a
> > > good profile he figures I must not be able to follow his instructions
on
> how
> > > to set-up the printer driver and wants me to hire him to come in to my
> place
> > > for more $$ and have him do the exact same thing. So I didn't pay for
> the
> > > profile but I did spend $25 couriering him the target and couriering
him
> > > samples of the poor results I got from his profile. Below is his
message
> and
> > > I think has blown me off because he hopes for less discriminating
types
> so I
> > > would not recommend
> >
> >
> > Actually, as an uninvolved party, I think your recommendation is weak,
> > but -even though you don't seem to know it- still positive.
> >
> > You show that he didn't keep your payment since you weren't satisfied.
> > That's mighty decent.
> >
> >
> > You post as if the investment of time and resources which he must have
> made
> > is immaterial. Yet you had the opportunity to test with a custom
profile.
> > That it did not work for you is not proof of where the problem lies.
Yes,
> he
> > may have been ineffective in creating a profile appropriate for your
> printer,
> > but that is only one of many possible interpretations. Whatever the
> original
> > agreed fee was, he invested proprotionately from his own time and
> resources,
> > and is willing to write that off because you weren't satisfied.
> >
> > That constitutes an unfortunate situation, but it's certainly no
> condemnation
> > of the vendor, nor the client. It's just an unfortunate situation, to
> which
> > the involved parties did not agree on further investment being
warranted.
> >
> >
> > I hope that anyone considering such services will read the whole thread.
> >
> > Thanks for giving the complete story - I think that shows you're also
> aware
> > of your own possible bias, and more interested in getting the whole
story
> out
> > than just grousing about the unfortunate situation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I completely disagree with your interpretation of the situation. What you
> are saying is the same as me going to photograph a couple's wedding with
> their impression that they are getting a professional, spending the day
> shooting it and not delivering what is promised. Even if I don't take the
> couple's money should they feel bad for the time I spent? I realize this
is
> an exaggerated scenario but never the less as a professional I would go to
> great lengths to do what I could to see if I could do anything more such
as
> shoot some portraits after the fact or whatever. I wouldn't just say,
> "sorry, the last 50 weddings worked out but for some reason yours didn't.
> Here is your money back." I believe that the fact the vendor did not make
> any attempt to rectify this problem is a weak business practice and
> demonstrates and the money being returned does not impress me in the same
> way. With that said, it is an interesting discussion and I appreciated the
> points you have raised.
>
> Cliff
>
Hi John,

Just wanted to let you know that the vendor sent me another message which I
feel shows true professionalism. I will post it below. However, I find it
interesting that he feels his custom profile may not be that much better
than Epson's generic profile. I do appreciate his honesty and for this
reason I would now recommend him and use him if I was profiling a unique
paper.


Cliff please don't get me wrong I am interested in making this work

but the only option we have is to retry the procedure - and we

certainly can do that if you would like. What I was trying to say was

that the profile you have appears to be working very well and I am

not sure you will see a significant improvement if we make a new

profile. But please feel free to re-send the profile patches and I

will generate a new profile and hopefully things will be better.

Angus





Thanks,



Cliff

Cliff Spicer wrote:

> I completely disagree with your interpretation of the situation. What you
> are saying is the same as me going to photograph a couple's wedding with
> their impression that they are getting a professional, spending the day
> shooting it and not delivering what is promised. Even if I don't take the
> couple's money should they feel bad for the time I spent? I realize this is
> an exaggerated scenario but never the less as a professional I would go to
> great lengths to do what I could to see if I could do anything more such as
> shoot some portraits after the fact or whatever. I wouldn't just say,
> "sorry, the last 50 weddings worked out but for some reason yours didn't.
> Here is your money back." I believe that the fact the vendor did not make
> any attempt to rectify this problem is a weak business practice and
> demonstrates and the money being returned does not impress me in the same
> way. With that said, it is an interesting discussion and I appreciated the
> points you have raised.


What did you lose, which in any way deserves even
comparison to the loss of someone's wedding photos?

You're making a totally inappropriate appeal
to emotional effect, and it's backfiring.