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Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam for re-attack after violent road rage attack?

Posts: n/a
Sorry for this thread going off topic, my fault, but...

MarkH wrote...
> You don't say how much you can afford, if price is not too
> much of a problem there is a Nokia cellphone that can do photos
> and video. This could be a very handy device to have on hand.

Q: Can it store the video, or must it be sent to another "videophone"?

I wasn't aware they did video, but that might be ideal.
Storage is important, however transmit is also great because that allows the
moving & duplication of evidence quickly away from the scene. Will

Charlie D wrote...
<snip> re Epson camera.

I have a "still" camera, but I need one without flash.
Flash into the face of an attacker is not going to help, plus somewhat minor
in the situation it is technically illegal to discharge a flash gun in a car

o Thanks for the replies
o NRA, down-boy, keep on topic for the group

3 areas to investigate, phones, "spycam" & perhaps recent digital cameras
since they say they do video. It will come down to an easily-found 1-touch
video re reaction time.

The second baseball bat attack on Age Concern charity shop on Sat a.m., so
Police too busy to call again. Those old nighties must be in demand, or
Dorothy Bradbury

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George Kerby
Posts: n/a
On 7/19/03 11:38 AM, in article mueSa.3213$(E-Mail Removed),
"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In <BB3ECA63.FB8A%(E-Mail Removed)> on 19 Jul 2003 15:13:58 GMT,
> George Kerby <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On 7/18/03 7:59 PM, in article IJ0Sa.3104$(E-Mail Removed),
>> "John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> In <BB3DE79B.FA70%(E-Mail Removed)> on 18 Jul 2003 23:06:23 GMT,
>>> George Kerby <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>> Here in Texas, I would recommend a 12 gauge pump with an 18" barrel and
>>>> full
>>>> magnum 00 buckshot. THAT would take care of your problem. Since you were
>>>> fearful that your life was in danger (you were - weren't you?), it would be
>>>> justifiable homicide. Don't know about the laws in The UK, though...
>>> It would probably just get you in more trouble, either with the attacker or
>>> with the authorities, even in Texas. Really bad idea.

>> After Peacock broke the driver's side window of the SUV, Russo fired four or
>> five shots at him. No charges were filed against Russo.

> And had Russo managed to hit an innocent bystander, an all too likely outcome,
> he's probably be in the slammer (and emotionally devastated). Not a smart
> risk to take.


Wrong answer.

Here in Texas we don't pray n' spray like those ragheads in Iraq and we
don't hold a piece at arms length and upside down like the brothers in the
movies. We carefully aim and S-Q-U-E-E-E-Z-Z-Z-E the round into the
offending perp's chest.

In addition, the shotgun that I suggested is a perfect defense weapon for
that sort of work. It is VERY effective at short ranges and will not cause
serious injury beyond a few yards.

However, you most likely cannot appreciate the differences among various
firearms. A "gun" is a "gun" to your sort. Here, our kids are taught to
respect and not fear weapons. My dad gave me my first .410 shotgun when I
was ten years of age and given copious instructions about the safety and
operation of this tool. My Dad and I had a lot of great times together

These days, kids are just told that "Guns Are Bad". Therefore, the
rebellious children (that we all once were) will use them as toys of power
and status symbols, rather than serious and deadly objects of respect.

Except in large cities, like Houston mentioned here, most everyone has a
"gunrack" in their pickup and there is usually a "varmit getter" on it. It
is useful for *ALL* types of varmits and deters this type of behavior when

When a guy is trying to break out your window in the middle of a street to
do you bodily harm, I'm sure you're going to regret defending yourself
later, if you chose to do so with a short range defensive weapon.

I won't.

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Posts: n/a
No I didn't mean it like that re NRA *smile*.

Thanks, but ridiculously those sprays aren't legal in the UK.

I think a pepper spray should be legal, and the criteria was clear:
o Until he broke the glass it is in the criminal damage area
---- video, photo, record, phone police & let them listen in
o Once the glass broke the event defines the intent
---- pepper spray gets you dis-orientation time
---- which in the /right/ situation is ideal

However, I was blocked in front - so nowhere to go.
Two sets of un-sync'd traffic lights ahead, high UK traffic density.
His car a Golf GTI 16V, mine 11yrs old, risk is high speed multiple

Clearway with traffic like gravity pushing you forward to him stopped,
no turn-offs, barriers either side, no breakdown lane. Nice eco design

The solutions:
o In a few weeks colleagues at GM USA are sorting out an industrial
car-PC they use, with small video cameras. Just needs 12V, rugged.

o For personal use, the VGA pen-cam should be ok re witnesses around.
---- Provides the video of assault, I can drop it under the seat then
---- Provides the "act or media frenzy" to get action.

There are some other pen-cams, so I'll look at those too.
GM colleague suggested the professional wireless pen-cam too.

"Black-box cameras & panic systems" are very much on the agenda.
Dorothy Bradbury

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Rachael the Wiccan Rat
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"dorothy.bradbury" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:nJ%Ra.983$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks for the replies.
> Re protection - UK law requires you to be victim first, and/or use
> reasonable force.
> Intruder who is shot by UK farmer, gets legal aid to sue the farmer.

> as settlement?
> The risk is then, whether anything of defence gets used on the defender.

I see someone else has mentioned a pepper spray - and as you point out, they
are not legal in the UK.

I know of a lady who was attacked (presumably for her handbag) and during
the scuffle, she sprayed the guy in the face with her hairspray. Perhaps you
could keep a can of the ickiest cheapest hairspray you can find (usually
those are the sort that sting the eyes) in the car (nuder the seat or out of
the sun but somewhere ready to hand would be good, as sunlight and
pressurised cans never mix, obviously !) ? It might not have the exact same
effect as pepper spray but I've got the stuff in my eyes accidently and
bugger me, it stops you in your tracks.

I also know a contact lens wearer who was victimised in the same way you
were - but she had repeated road rage attacks over a period of time, and the
sod always got away scot free and the police seemed uninterested in catching
him. In the end she soaked him in the face with 10-10 contact lens soaking
solution - this is stuff designed to disinfect contact lenses, then to be
neutralised by a second step rinsing solution - and it contains hydrogen
perioxide. I used to use it and I stopped doing so because if you forget to
neutralise, you get hydrogen perioxide in your eye and I'm here to tell you
that hurts like a total bastard, but it doesn't do you any lasting damage
(other than convince you not to buy the poxy stuff ever again that is).

It comes in a squeeze bottle and she grasped it firmly in both hands and let
it go into his phizz. The guy in question fell back onto the floor clutching
his eyes and she was never bothered by him again.

"I just happened to have it lying here Officer - it was a panic reaction."

You know what I mean ?

Another thing I happen to have which I have thought might be useful in such
a situation is a can of canned air. My ex husband gave it to me for cleaning
the dust of fiddly electrical stuff. It seems pretty pressurised and makes a
hell of a concentrated stream when it comes out - that in yer eye and you'd
think twice about doing anything else to the bearer, I imagine. And it's
just air - the lasting damage is probably minimal (thus making you less

I used to have one of those personal panic alarms - the ones that make a
very high pitched noise. Apparently the best way to use them is to shove 'em
right in the ear'ole of your assailant, or as near as you can - then let 'em
fly. You'll be expecting it and will brace yourself, but they will wonder
what the blue **** has happened and will probably be deaf in that ear and
somewhat pained for the next half hour, which is often off putting when
you're trying to attack someone.

I hope some of these ideas help. As others have said, it would have been
nice to run the bugger down, but you'd have been writing this from the
slammer if you had, no doubt.


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Posts: n/a
Thanks for the comments.

o Yes, hairspray
o Ideal if the window goes through

Small compact versions available.

There were 2 witnesses, lorry behind following me from Runcorn, and the red
raised 4x4 in front similarly who witnessed the attack & criminal damage.
4 lanes of traffic stopped, around 15-30 cars, there could be more.

Forgot to do 3 quick photographs of he cars, and lorry, around the scene
and exact location. There just might be video camera footage available too.

Currently investigating the 8x2.5x6cm Mustek DV3000 handheld videocam.
Easy for a passenger to hold pointed at the window, tiny & discrete.

Ideal would be one with a Video-IN so acting as a DVR, Digital Video
That allows a fixed in-vehicle camera, rather than the PC-type DVR
Dorothy Bradbury

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Posts: n/a
Re cameras - a more innovative solution:

o Archos do a video-input capable recorder
---- chips + hard drive = tiny + low-power + vast recording capability
(start at journey start)

o Any video camera can be used I *think*
---- simple pinhole pointing diagonally behind me at the driver door &

Hands free, cheap, quality digital video recording.
Usable portable backup/transfer hard drive for business use too re expenses.

For the price, it makes a useful DVR for a surveillance/witness app.
Dorothy Bradbury

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