«

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:04:22 +0200, in
<>, Mxsmanic
<> said:

>John writes:
>
>> I do expect it to follow the spirit of the charters though.
>
>Nobody reads charters.

ISP abuse staff do. A person can lose their access if they post stuff
that's blatently in violation of the charter, & enough people complain.

> The only guideline to the content of a newsgroup
>is its name.

That's incorrect. Spend some time in news.admin.net-abuse.usenet, &
you'll find out very quickly that that's not the case.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

You know what else is "custom" in these newsgroups .. at least one stroker
who will pick and pick and pick at anything they don't agree with...

A "self appointed newsgroup policeman"

"Lionel" <> wrote in message news:bet91c$n1c$...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:57:05 +1000, in <>,
> "VH-MR2" <> said:
>
> >Ah I see ...
> >
> >So it's not ok if OTHERS talk about their business .. but ok if YOU do
so.
>

,blah, blah, blah....

In article <>,
says...
> you
> are bitching about someone who wasn't even off topic in his commercial
> advertisement.
>
>

I would rather read 10 off topic posts than one commercial ad. Whether a
commercial advertisement is germane to the group is of no consequence.
They are not allowed. Period.

--
________________________________
Todd Walker
http://twalker.d2g.com
Olympus E20
Canon G2
My Digital Photography Weblog:
http://twalker.d2g.com/dpblog.htm
_________________________________

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:13:16 +1000, in <>,
"VH-MR2" <> said:

>
>"Lionel" <> wrote in message news:bet955$n1c$...
>> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:04:22 +0200, in
>>
>> ISP abuse staff do. A person can lose their access if they post stuff
>> that's blatently in violation of the charter, & enough people complain.
>
>What rubbish .. ISP's do not deny their users access for breaching newsgroup
>charters and both you and I know it (although i'm sure every one of us wish
>that they did from time to time).

Oh really? I can assure you that it happens regularly.

> Most ISP's dont even bother to contact
>their users over complaints, particularly ones as petty as minor infractions
>to non legal charters.
>
>> That's incorrect. Spend some time in news.admin.net-abuse.usenet, &
>> you'll find out very quickly that that's not the case.
>
>and yet .. even with all this 'policing' the newsgroups are still spammed
>incessantly by real honest to goodness spammers and real trolls and here you
>are bitching about someone who wasn't even off topic in his commercial
>advertisement.

Eh?
Try reading my post, genius. You'll find that I was *defending* the guy
who mentioned his business. (Not the person who started the thread with
his blatent ad.)
I suggest you pull your horns back in before attacking people for things
they haven't done.

As for the professional spammers, they have to operate from kazillions
of throwaway accounts & from spam-friendly providers, because most of
their accounts get shut down fairly quickly.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:10:39 +1000, in <>,
"VH-MR2" <> said:

>You know what else is "custom" in these newsgroups .. at least one stroker
>who will pick and pick and pick at anything they don't agree with...

I notice that you chose to snip out all my comments when replying. Nice
work, ****-for-brains.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Lionel writes:

> ISP abuse staff do.

No, they don't.

> A person can lose their access if they post stuff
> that's blatently in violation of the charter, & enough
> people complain.

That is more urban legend than reality. ISPs know where their money
comes from, and it isn't from people who send e-mails of complaint.

> That's incorrect. Spend some time in
> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet, & you'll find out
> very quickly that that's not the case.

Most ISPs don't go anywhere near news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Lionel writes:

> Oh really? I can assure you that it happens regularly.

No, it does not. ISPs receive a great many complaints, and almost never
act on them, since most are groundless.

ISPs must act on anything that puts them at legal risk, but there is
virtually nothing on USENET that puts them at any kind of legal risk
(depending on their jurisdiction). Everything else is fair game. The
ISPs make money from their subscribers, not from people who send them
complaints.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:06:18 +0200, in
<>, Mxsmanic
<> said:

>Todd Walker writes:
>
>> I would rather read 10 off topic posts than one commercial ad.
>
>You can pick and choose whichever posts you want. Nobody forces you to
>read anything.
>
>> Whether a commercial advertisement is germane to the group
>> is of no consequence. They are not allowed. Period.
>
>Anything is allowed on USENET.

Bullshit. Go read the AUP policy at your ISP if you don't believe me.
Also, go do some Googling on the phrase "Usenet death penalty", if you
want to see what happens to ISPs that think the way you do.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:08:11 +0200, in
<>, Mxsmanic
<> said:

>Lionel writes:
>
>> Oh really? I can assure you that it happens regularly.
>
>No, it does not.

And where do you get the data required to make such a categoric
statement? I know several newsadmins & many ISP staff, & I know that
people regularly lose Usenet access for such behaviour.

You are correct in saying that most complaints are groundless, but not
all are, & valid complaints are usually acted upon by responsible ISPs
or news providers.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

"Todd Walker" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> I would rather read 10 off topic posts than one commercial ad. Whether a
> commercial advertisement is germane to the group is of no consequence.
> They are not allowed. Period.

Whilst I appreciate your opinion and you're right to have it ... My opinion
differs from yours. I appreciate reading on topic advertisements as long
as they're not incessant.

As this is a newsgroup you will find that people will come in without
reading the charter and will post what they like. I suggest you simply live
with it .. as those who have complained (and those who have replied to that,
myself included) have created a far bigger bandwidth issue than if the
original whiners had simply ignored the post or killfiled the poster.

Doesn't the charter cater for self appointed newsgroup police that will
argue their point to the end of eternity over a few bytes of data and create
megabytes worth of traffic?