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Basic question on VoIP

 
 
r_mervart
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      07-21-2005

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:20:12 +0100, "Martin²" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >Reputedly you get reliable service from Gradwell, Vonage and perhaps
> >Voiphone,
> >but they all charge rental, which rather limits any savings.

> Vonage does NOT charge rental they charge 9.99 a month inclusive of
> VAT and ALL calls to geographical numbers in the whole of the UK
> and ALL of Ireland . What is BT charging for their all calls package
> is it twenty eight quid a month or something and that only includes
> calls to northern Ireland not the south !!.


If it is a fixed non-reducible monthly charge then it is what would normally
be understood as a rental whether it includes certain types of call without
further charge or not. It may be much better rental than BT equivalent but
it is rental.
Roman


 
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Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk
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      07-21-2005
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:14:47 GMT, "r_mervart"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>If it is a fixed non-reducible monthly charge then it is what would normally
>be understood as a rental whether it includes certain types of call without
>further charge or not.

No you are wrong if I took what you are saying above to be correct
then our city transport operators are charging bus rental when they
say I can travel anywhere in the city at any time of the day or night
for a fixed monthly fee.
Now I have a choice I can either buy the journeys in bulk at a very
much reduced rate or I can pay per journey and it is exactly the same
with Vonage and many other phone companies with the exception of BT
who clearly state their top package includes line RENTAL and ALL
calls. You cannot rent a line from Vonage has they have no lines to
rent .






 
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Ivor Jones
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      07-21-2005

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:14:47 GMT, "r_mervart"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>If it is a fixed non-reducible monthly charge then it is what would
>>normally
>>be understood as a rental whether it includes certain types of call
>>without
>>further charge or not.


> No you are wrong if I took what you are saying above to be correct
> then our city transport operators are charging bus rental when they
> say I can travel anywhere in the city at any time of the day or night
> for a fixed monthly fee.
> Now I have a choice I can either buy the journeys in bulk at a very
> much reduced rate or I can pay per journey and it is exactly the same
> with Vonage and many other phone companies with the exception of BT
> who clearly state their top package includes line RENTAL and ALL
> calls. You cannot rent a line from Vonage has they have no lines to
> rent .


Are you telling me that I can have a number from Vonage and not pay a
monthly charge but can use the same system as Sipgate and add credit like
a PAYG mobile..? If so I can't see it on their website anywhere.

If it's a charge I have to pay in order to use the service then it's
rental in all but name.

Ivor


 
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Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk
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      07-21-2005
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:51:29 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>Are you telling me that I can have a number from Vonage and not pay a
>monthly charge but can use the same system as Sipgate and add credit like
>a PAYG mobile..? If so I can't see it on their website anywhere.

No
>If it's a charge I have to pay in order to use the service then it's
>rental in all but name.

No it isn't a charge you have to pay in order to use the service Ivor
in the sence you are meaning ,you have to pay a charge in order to
make calls just has you have to pay a charge in order to make calls
via Sipgate or any other VOIP telecoms provider unless it is to other
users of their service and how do you know if you are calling a
Sipgate/Vonage or any other providers number anyway other than calling
the number and see if you are either connected or get told to put some
money in your account.
Ivor I and others are paying Vonage for a high quality service and the
service is of high quality in all respects and they provide a free
phone number for customes to get in contact with them unlike a certain
other operator who I shall not name that cannot even be bothered to
answer customers emails anymore .
You said yourself the other night if you want quality you have to pay
for it and I have proved this fact time and time again over the years,
the differance between Sipgate and Vonage is like going in the London
Hilton for dinner and going in Joe's cafe round the corner .

 
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Ivor Jones
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      07-21-2005

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:51:29 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Are you telling me that I can have a number from Vonage and not pay a
>>monthly charge but can use the same system as Sipgate and add credit
>>like
>>a PAYG mobile..? If so I can't see it on their website anywhere.

> No
>>If it's a charge I have to pay in order to use the service then it's
>>rental in all but name.


> No it isn't a charge you have to pay in order to use the service Ivor
> in the sence you are meaning ,you have to pay a charge in order to
> make calls just has you have to pay a charge in order to make calls
> via Sipgate or any other VOIP telecoms provider unless it is to other
> users of their service and how do you know if you are calling a
> Sipgate/Vonage or any other providers number anyway other than calling
> the number and see if you are either connected or get told to put some
> money in your account.


I wish you'd put paragraph breaks in sometimes..!

But it *is* a charge I have to pay in order to use the service..! I can't
have a Vonage account without paying money every month whether I make any
calls or not, or can I..?

What if I don't make any calls..?

> Ivor I and others are paying Vonage for a high quality service and the
> service is of high quality in all respects and they provide a free
> phone number for customes to get in contact with them unlike a certain
> other operator who I shall not name that cannot even be bothered to
> answer customers emails anymore .


So if I don't make any calls I don't pay anything, is that right..? Where
does it say this on the website..?

> You said yourself the other night if you want quality you have to pay
> for it and I have proved this fact time and time again over the years,
> the differance between Sipgate and Vonage is like going in the London
> Hilton for dinner and going in Joe's cafe round the corner .


But I like sausage & chips..!

Ivor


 
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r_mervart
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      07-21-2005

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:14:47 GMT, "r_mervart"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
> >If it is a fixed non-reducible monthly charge then it is what would

normally
> >be understood as a rental whether it includes certain types of call

without
> >further charge or not.

> No you are wrong if I took what you are saying above to be correct
> then our city transport operators are charging bus rental when they
> say I can travel anywhere in the city at any time of the day or night
> for a fixed monthly fee.
> Now I have a choice I can either buy the journeys in bulk at a very
> much reduced rate or I can pay per journey and it is exactly the same
> with Vonage and many other phone companies with the exception of BT
> who clearly state their top package includes line RENTAL and ALL
> calls. You cannot rent a line from Vonage has they have no lines to
> rent .
>

Mobile operators do not have lines to rent but charge a line rental or boast
about not charging the line rental (e.g. Virgin, EasyMobile) - which implies
they could do if they decided to. I do not want to get hang up on a meaning
of the word rental but to me there is a question of the payment of either
1) a fixed irreducible monthly fee or
2) no monthly fee at all and paying only for calls (pay as you go).

I am not saying what and who is better but as far as I understand it I do
not have that second option with Vonage. In other words, taking your
example, I do not have that option paying for just one bus journey. I just
want to be clear about it.
Thanks
Roman


 
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Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk
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      07-21-2005
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:24:46 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>But it *is* a charge I have to pay in order to use the service..! I can't
>have a Vonage account without paying money every month whether I make any
>calls or not, or can I..?

Just has you have to pay money every month to BT and TW Ivor with
Vonage you can pick up the phone and make has many calls has you like
totally free .
>What if I don't make any calls..?

What if you don't make any calls on BT or TW lines you still have to
pay 20.00 + pr month ! .

>> You said yourself the other night if you want quality you have to pay
>> for it and I have proved this fact time and time again over the years,
>> the differance between Sipgate and Vonage is like going in the London
>> Hilton for dinner and going in Joe's cafe round the corner .

>
>But I like sausage & chips..!

Don't sidestep the issue Ivor and its time I practiced what I preach
also, I have had to pay out £ 20.00 in the last 24 hrs when 14.20
would have been sufficient if I only I had remembered that cheap is
nasty )) .

 
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Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk
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      07-21-2005
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:54:32 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>As I told you before, I'd struggle to make £9.99 of calls in a year, never
>mind a month..! Most of my calls are to mobiles, so I use the mobile for
>that, or Sipgate users, which are free anyway, so what I'd do with a
>tenner's worth of calls to landlines in a month I have no idea..!


Ivor you have stated that you have both BT and TW land lines how do
you justify paying line rental on TWO land lines on which you cannot
make a single call with out paying a call charge when you are so
vehemently opposed to paying line rental ??????. I have two at present
also , the TW line should have been gone last Friday and would have
been had TW not proved to me once again that they are has NONE
customer oriented has Sipgate .
 
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Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk
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      07-21-2005
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:15:50 GMT, "r_mervart"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>I do not have that option paying for just one bus journey. I just
>want to be clear about it.

Correct you pay them 9.99 a month if you make a 1000 calls or none it
is that simple .
This is another large argument that I have with Sipgate they offer a
service which gives customers 1000 minutes a month for 5.99 but do
they want paying 5.99 a month NO DO THEY HELL they want a tenner a
month come what may they do not accept payments of less than a tenner
which in my opinion is totally out of order .
 
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r_mervart
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      07-21-2005

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:15:50 GMT, "r_mervart"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >I do not have that option paying for just one bus journey. I just
> >want to be clear about it.

> Correct you pay them 9.99 a month if you make a 1000 calls or none it
> is that simple .
> This is another large argument that I have with Sipgate they offer a
> service which gives customers 1000 minutes a month for 5.99 but do
> they want paying 5.99 a month NO DO THEY HELL they want a tenner a
> month come what may they do not accept payments of less than a tenner
> which in my opinion is totally out of order .


OK, so I am clear on the first point now. The payment for service with
Sipgate, as you describe it, is rather strange. I presume you will not have
to pay another tenner until you made calls worth £10 even if it takes
longer than a month?
Roman


 
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