«

On Sat, 21 May 2005 11:15:46 +0100, "Jet Morgan"
<> wrote:

>Can you give an example of dialing "exactly as from the UK" but which
>*doesn't* need the +countrycode bit and which will work sensibly when
>roaming ?

several mobile services are doing this now, presumably to help the
hard of thinking. Dial 123 to get you voicemail or dial 01xxx type UK
numbers. Doesn't work everywhere and a silly idea to my mind.

To dial UK from US with GSM other than under the above kludge its
either +44 or 011 44

VoIP services are different to GSM in that the latter incorporates
roaming and geography in its standards. A VoIP service will act on the
basis of where you tell them it is going to be used, so BTBBV for
example assumes you are in the UK, and the Business veriosn takes
location details for 999 purposes.

A UK based VoIP service is IMO unlikely to look at your IP and change
its behaviour based on that, for example General Motors IP addresses
are probably spread around the planet and you can't deduce geography
from their IP.

Phil
--
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Come on down !

> If you are roaming on a mobile you dial exactly as if you were in the UK,
> although you will usually need to use the + international symbol and
> country code, i.e. +1 234 567 8901 when calling the US, even if you are
> there.
>

IVOR - THIS IS COMPLETELY UNTRUE

With a mobile phone, if you are roaming, you ALLWAYS need to call the number
as if you were using a local phone.
You are indeed using the local network, therefore need to behave as a local
Of course, you can allways use the international format, even in your own
country - which is good practice

e.g
UK mobile user calling from the UK to a UK number
-- can dial 01xxxx or +44 1 xxxx
a UK mobile user, traveling in Belgium, calling the UK
-- have to dial +44 1 xxxx or 0044 1 xxxx
a UK mobile user, traveling in Belgium, calling a belgium number
-- can dial 0 xxxxxx or +32 xxxxxxx

Therefore the information that if you are roaming on a mobile you dial
exactly as if you were in the UK, is not correct

Ph

On Sat, 21 May 2005 13:52:41 +0200, "Philippe Deleye"
<> wrote:

>With a mobile phone, if you are roaming, you ALLWAYS need to call the number
>as if you were using a local phone.

no longer the case. Been there, done that, there are networks and
operators where dialling a UK formatted number from a UK handset works
fine in another country. Silly idea, and doesn't work reliably
everywhere so thr +44 method is best.

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !

"Phil Thompson" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Sat, 21 May 2005 13:52:41 +0200, "Philippe Deleye"
> <> wrote:
>
> >With a mobile phone, if you are roaming, you ALLWAYS need to call the
number
> >as if you were using a local phone.
>
> no longer the case. Been there, done that, there are networks and
> operators where dialling a UK formatted number from a UK handset works
> fine in another country. Silly idea, and doesn't work reliably
> everywhere so thr +44 method is best.


Bloody silly idea. I see (sort of) what IVOR was getting at now.

My problem is that if you now CAN (and thus don't have to) dial
the number in UK format, how does the host number know whether
you want that number "as interpreted in UK" or "as interpreted
in local country" ?

By the sound of it, you could dial 02something from a UK handset
in Holland and get it interpreted as either +442... or +312...


Is it the case that ALL UK cellular companies ALLOW the usage
of +44 to call back to the UK when roaming ? (whether they REQUIRE
it or not)

Richard [in SE13]

On Sat, 21 May 2005 14:02:50 +0100, "Jet Morgan"
<> wrote:

>Bloody silly idea. I see (sort of) what IVOR was getting at now.
>
>My problem is that if you now CAN (and thus don't have to) dial
>the number in UK format, how does the host number know whether
>you want that number "as interpreted in UK" or "as interpreted
>in local country" ?
>
>By the sound of it, you could dial 02something from a UK handset
>in Holland and get it interpreted as either +442... or +312...

I haven't worked out the rules, but its more likely that where it
exists it will always interpret it as a call back to the UK. This does
raise the possibility of error.

>Is it the case that ALL UK cellular companies ALLOW the usage
>of +44 to call back to the UK when roaming ? (whether they REQUIRE
>it or not)

that's the GSM standard and should work everywhere you roam with any
phone from any provider.

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !

> >With a mobile phone, if you are roaming, you ALLWAYS need to call the
number
> >as if you were using a local phone.
>
> no longer the case. Been there, done that, there are networks and
> operators where dialling a UK formatted number from a UK handset works
> fine in another country. Silly idea, and doesn't work reliably
> everywhere so thr +44 method is best.

I can't believe this.
Please tell us where you were and what local UK number you dialed in the UK
format ??
The exception of the rule or of course special numbers, like you voicemail
access number
This is not a "UK formatted number" but a short code dedicated to tour
PROVIDER (not your country)
Indeed, in some countries, if you are using a provider that has a special
agreement with your own provider, then it might be possible that they allow
you to use the usual short codes for Voice mail ea

But we were talking about real UK numbers (not special codes)
I just repeat myself: You can only call a UK number from abroad wenn dialing
the correct international format +44 xxx

On Sun, 22 May 2005 12:48:51 +0100, "Philippe Deleye"
<> wrote:

>I can't believe this.
>Please tell us where you were and what local UK number you dialed in the UK
>format ??

this happened both in Poland and in the USA. In both cases I didn't
believe it either, a travelling companion (different in each case)
couldn't get through and I said something along the lines "of course
not you asshole you haven't put +44 in front and docked the zero"
however they were insistent it had worked previously and when they
handed over the phone I saw it with my own eyes.

It isn't error prone in the USA as the area codes and the long
distance prefix are both non-zero, so it would be reasonable to assume
that a UK mobile dialling 01283 xxxxxxx is calling the UK.

The CLID was also messed up in the US (ATT Wireless at the time) with
01144 added to the front and digits falling off the back. A
non-compliant mess.

>Indeed, in some countries, if you are using a provider that has a special
>agreement with your own provider, then it might be possible that they allow
>you to use the usual short codes for Voice mail ea
>
>But we were talking about real UK numbers (not special codes)

agreed

>I just repeat myself: You can only call a UK number from abroad wenn dialing
>the correct international format +44 xxx

argument by repeated assertion is not an argument. In any case the +
can be replaced by the relevant local code for international access
(00, 8, 011, whatever ).

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !

Thus spaketh Phil Thompson:
> On Sun, 22 May 2005 12:48:51 +0100, "Philippe Deleye"
> <> wrote:
>
>> I can't believe this.
>> Please tell us where you were and what local UK number you dialed in
>> the UK format ??
>
> this happened both in Poland and in the USA. In both cases I didn't
> believe it either, a travelling companion (different in each case)
> couldn't get through and I said something along the lines "of course
> not you asshole you haven't put +44 in front and docked the zero"
> however they were insistent it had worked previously and when they
> handed over the phone I saw it with my own eyes.
>
> It isn't error prone in the USA as the area codes and the long
> distance prefix are both non-zero, so it would be reasonable to assume
> that a UK mobile dialling 01283 xxxxxxx is calling the UK.
>
> The CLID was also messed up in the US (ATT Wireless at the time) with
> 01144 added to the front and digits falling off the back. A
> non-compliant mess.
>
>> Indeed, in some countries, if you are using a provider that has a
>> special agreement with your own provider, then it might be possible
>> that they allow you to use the usual short codes for Voice mail ea
>>
>> But we were talking about real UK numbers (not special codes)
>
> agreed
>
>> I just repeat myself: You can only call a UK number from abroad wenn
>> dialing the correct international format +44 xxx
>
> argument by repeated assertion is not an argument. In any case the +
> can be replaced by the relevant local code for international access
> (00, 8, 011, whatever ).
>
> Phil

I have had friends on T-Mobile and O2 PAYG mobiles in the past and they only
needed to dial UK format when roaming, do not know if this has changed.

On 21 May 2005 01:34 +0200, Chris <> wrote:

>E.g. for a Sipgate user to call my Sipgate number, they can just dial
>660 xyza, rather than 0161 660 xyza. However, you may not know that
>the called party is on the same network,

But some have a different form, anyway. Within Sipgate their number may
be "100 abcd" but for a PSTN number that could be "xxx 000 abcd" (I have
one myself, matching these number patterns). Peter M.


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"Philippe Deleye" <> wrote in message
news:429071a4$0$79463$...

> But we were talking about real UK numbers (not special codes)
> I just repeat myself: You can only call a UK number from abroad wenn
dialing
> the correct international format +44 xxx

So are you saying that you specifically CAN'T dial 0044 xxx.. or
whatever (assuming the hosting coutry uses 00 as international
breakout) ?

Richard [in PE12]