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Spam?

 
 
Martin E. Zulliger
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      09-24-2005
Hi everyone,

I have a deep but yet simple question to everyone: when a post is
considered spam and when it isnt?

Cuz sometimes I see people advertising their products (which, to my
understanding, is called "spam") and everyone is happy. And sometimes I
see people posting the same kind of advertising and they receive a
stream of complains and flames... This confuses my simple and logical
mind

Thanks!
Martin
 
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ekstesi@gmail.com
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      09-25-2005
Sounds like turing machine logic
My thinking is if information is relevant to it's surroundings than it
may not be classified as spam.
What I don't understand is why this original question would come up in
a voip group and not a semantics group ? maybe this is my
overanalytical endlessley curious mind : )

 
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Martin E. Zulliger
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      09-25-2005
Hahaha good point, well I guess since in a semantics group... nobody
does spam! What would they advertise? Well hmmm they can advertise
books, possibly, but that wouldnt be semantics, but rather literature...
anyway, thats not my point.

My point is since in THIS group, people post stuff that contains
advertising in some way, sometimes its treated as spam and sometimes its
not, and yeah in both cases its VoIP related.

Let's put it with an example, if I am a carrier and I post a message:
Visit my website there you got cheap rates and cool stuff, etc, etc.
Would that be considered spam?

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Sounds like turing machine logic
> My thinking is if information is relevant to it's surroundings than it
> may not be classified as spam.
> What I don't understand is why this original question would come up in
> a voip group and not a semantics group ? maybe this is my
> overanalytical endlessley curious mind : )
>

 
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Martin E. Zulliger
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      09-25-2005
And by the way, Im not calling "spammer" to anyone. I really don't care
what people do they're free to do whatever they want I wont complain.

This is since Ive noticed you posted an ad today, Im not calling you
spammer, actually I believe what you did is a legal and logical way to
let people know about your services, etc. I just wanna know when do
people in this group would consider something is spam and when it isnt.
So please dont take it as I am against you, all the opposite, I agree
with you! (Yeah man, we're all friends

Basically I just wanna know the "dos" and "donts", in case I wanna
advertise something

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Sounds like turing machine logic
> My thinking is if information is relevant to it's surroundings than it
> may not be classified as spam.
> What I don't understand is why this original question would come up in
> a voip group and not a semantics group ? maybe this is my
> overanalytical endlessley curious mind : )
>

 
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Ivor Jones
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      09-25-2005


"Martin E. Zulliger" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:5NmZe.4114081$(E-Mail Removed) s
> Hahaha good point, well I guess since in a semantics
> group... nobody does spam! What would they advertise?
> Well hmmm they can advertise books, possibly, but that
> wouldnt be semantics, but rather literature... anyway,
> thats not my point.
> My point is since in THIS group, people post stuff that
> contains advertising in some way, sometimes its treated
> as spam and sometimes its not, and yeah in both cases its
> VoIP related.
> Let's put it with an example, if I am a carrier and I
> post a message: Visit my website there you got cheap
> rates and cool stuff, etc, etc. Would that be considered
> spam?


If it's a group that does not permit advertising, yes. Most groups have a
charter, check it out before posting.

Ivor


 
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ekstesi@gmail.com
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      09-25-2005
Thanks : ), I just jumped without thinking by throwing up a quick
notice. I should have checked in more detail I guess..

I think going back to the line between between spam n not it comes
down to context.. like for example.. we are all host to googles
interface of newsgroups.. as part of that service, they serve you with
relevant ads... if these ads weren't relevant , they might be
considered spam... I think your thinking and question are much more
important that what it initially seemed as I have been thinking.. when
is spam good ? I get certain emails that occasionlly peak my
interest.. if I was never exposed to these ( say for example new
products etc ) and blocked everyhting , then my scope of experience is
narrowed.

now I do think that if i see that same ad or something similar once a
day every day for 6 months.. I would be getting a little annoyed..

so maybe spam = "repetitive non-relevant information" to the viewer

feedback ?

 
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Miguel Cruz
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      09-25-2005
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I think going back to the line between between spam n not it comes
> down to context.. like for example.. we are all host to googles
> interface of newsgroups..


We are? What makes you think that?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan
 
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Martin E. Zulliger
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      09-26-2005
Well about Google's interface of newsgroups, I can say it has saved my
life, since my ISP's news server (which, ironically, they dont know
they have!!!... yeah, its a long story, I'll explain in another post)
has crashed, or something, the point is that when I open the news with
my email client (well I am not spamming when I say... Mozilla
Thunderbird! it is just blank, well anyway...

I want to say that I agree with my pseudo-anonymous friend (well I just
know you're "ekstesi@g..." and I want to add something interesting
that I just thought while I was typing this post... if you do any kind
of advertising with OSS, for example, a typical line in your signature,
under your name, like "Linuz Rulex" or "Firrrrefox!!!", or a post
talking about an OSS project, well far from being annoying, people will
think you're cool, some Guru of OSS (and maybe you have nothing to do
with any OSS project), meanwhile, if in your signature you got
something like "God Save MicroZoft" (and hey!, this is just an example,
I dont intend to offend anyone : ) some people will consider it some
kind of spam, even if you dont work with this company and you're just a
fan (drunk, ehem .

Funny indeed it is... you can go to any group and post something about
OSS, talking about a project you're working on, asking people to try
it, etc, you have few/null chances of being flamed or called spammer.

So we can say, only if your ad is of non-commercial nature you'll not
be flamed? Well this is not completely true, its not only if it is
related or not to the group you're posting, but also about WHAT you're
advertising. For example, go to misc.health.alternative and post one of
those emails we receive every day about those "cool pills" for losing
weight, or for "helping" guys ... and even though its perfectly
related, well they will probably ban you...

By the other side, it is possible to advertise something in all groups
and not be considered spam, as long as what you're advertising doesnt
offend anyone and you are not repeating it annoyingly...

So the definition of spam becomes kind of complicated... I would extend
your definition to "repetitive non-relevant or offensive information".

And finally, yeah I guess this is a crazy topic to talk about in a VoIP
group, I know, I started it, but it just became interesting and fun (at
least I had fun).

Now I feel my question has been answered so thanks!

 
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Miguel Cruz
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      09-26-2005
Martin E. Zulliger <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Funny indeed it is... you can go to any group and post something about
> OSS, talking about a project you're working on, asking people to try
> it, etc, you have few/null chances of being flamed or called spammer.


I don't find it that funny; if it's not a commercial posting (for instance,
if you are posting about open source software) then it doesn't fit many
people's definition of spam.

Also, the incentive structure is different. Most of the spam I see comes
from chumps who have signed up for some multi-level marketing program and
are hoping to get clicks to their affiliate link. There's not a whole lot of
this in the open-source world (because not much money is changing hands) so
chumps have no reason to flood newsgroups with their crap.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan
 
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Martin E. Zulliger
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-26-2005
One good new, now I can post again with Thunderbird (they fixed whatever
happened : ).

> I don't find it that funny; if it's not a commercial posting (for instance,
> if you are posting about open source software) then it doesn't fit many
> people's definition of spam.


Yes, but I was talking about the "repetitive non-relevant or offensive
information" definition, maybe we had to add the word "commercial"
somewhere in that definition? I wanted to emphasis actually it is not
only non relevant and repetitive but also "commercial" what tends to
annoy people.

> Also, the incentive structure is different. Most of the spam I see comes
> from chumps who have signed up for some multi-level marketing program and
> are hoping to get clicks to their affiliate link. There's not a whole lot of
> this in the open-source world (because not much money is changing hands) so
> chumps have no reason to flood newsgroups with their crap.


Well this is relative, actually I have seen a lot of that spam but if
you tell me the word "spam" I will first think of those thousands of
"blue pill" and "personals" (ie, find a girl) ads I get, and I swear I
never asked for any of those; also I can say I definitely dont need
them, I have a wonderful girlfriend and I dont need any pill, (but
knowing Usenet, someone will post something to make fun of that line...
but I just had to say it!!! Also those ones offering mortgages, yeah
I almost forget them. However I think this varies with the email
provider you are using and so on, my case was using my Yafoo account, (I
like to say Yafoo because a japanese guy I knew in Argentina, friend of
mine... well another long story , I guess most of their webmail
accounts receive the same or similar type of spam, since my bro has an
account there and he gets the same.

A couple days ago I was reading how spam causes millionaire loses in the
world (yeah because of wasting bandwidth, space in the servers and so
on), specially in countries that haven't been deploying filters
(generally the developing countries), this is kind of sad.

Anyway I try to take all that in the most ironic and positive way, I
know its actually not very funny but I dont know what I could do to help
it...
 
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