Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Computer Support > 30 gig drive only 25 after format??

Reply
Thread Tools

30 gig drive only 25 after format??

 
 
SirReal
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005

my original question was: why did you advertise
a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one
with only 25 gig. here is his response. is he on
the level?? i don't see formatting taking up 5 gig.
perhaps i am wrong. please. i need your responses.
be as concise as possible. thanks in advance.

Dear Dell Customer,

Dell's e-mail software interprets your
message as a request for information
about a discrepancy in reported hard
drive size. This response document offers
information about that issue.

Binary vs. Decimal Numbering Systems
=============================
Manufacturers and marketers of computer
hard drives report the raw storage capacity
of the drives before they are formatted and
in decimal numbers. A decimal megabyte is
1,000,000 bytes. Windows, however, reports
the capacity of the hard drive after formatting
and in binary numbers. A binary megabyte is
1,073,741,824 bytes. Clearly, there are more
decimal megabytes in an unformatted drive then
binary megabytes in a formatted one.
The result is that the same drive may be described
as having a capacity of 80 MB or about 75 MB
depending on which numbering system is used and
whether the capacity is calculated before or after
low-level and high-level formatting.

The Effect of Cluster Size
===============================
Other factors also reduce the available capacity
of a formatted hard drive. Cluster size is one
factor. A cluster is the smallest storage unit
available on a drive. In general, the larger
the drive the larger the cluster size. This means
that a small text file of 100 bytes will be stored
in a very large cluster of 32,000 or 64,000 bytes,
and nothing else can be stored that cluster.
Most hard drive formatting results in significant
amounts of unusable storage capacity. NTFS clusters
are smaller than FAT32 clusters. You can use smaller
clusters if you divide a large physical drive into
several smaller logical drives. Most hard drive
utilities that increase available space do so by
compressing files and taking advantage of empty
clusters space. Dell Technical Support does not
recommend using compression utilities because they
are all somewhat unsafe for your data.

Low-level Format Reserve Sectors
=============================
Reserve sectors are another factor. It is
impossible to manufacture millions of perfectly
flawless high-capacity drive platters. All platters
have some flaws. Manufacturers reserve a certain
amount of raw hard drive space to swap for damaged
sectors that are locked out during factory low-level
formatting, and the size of this reserved space is
proprietary information. This means that a drive
labeled "80 GB" is only that large in decimal numbers,
before reserve sectors are taken, before low-level
formatting, and before high-level formatting.

Very Large Drive Size Discrepancies
=============================
If your 80 GB drive has only 32 GB of available
storage, you are dealing with an operating system
and file system limit, not a physical limit.

All current Dell computers are shipped with the NTFS
file system and either Windows XP or Windows 2000.

It is easy to change the file system to FAT32 in
Windows XP. Some customers MUST change to FAT32
so that an important legacy program will run under
Windows XP. However the largest FAT32 partition that
Windows XP can recognize is 32 GB. This limit is part
of the design of Windows XP, and Microsoft has no plans
to change it.

If you are adding a hard drive larger than 137 GB you
may need a third-party controller card or overlay
software to allow you to access the full capacity of
the drive. To learn more about this limit, enter the
words "138 GB limit" in any major search site.





 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Gordon
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote:

>
> my original question was: why did you advertise
> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one
> with only 25 gig.


Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB
formatted!
I have an 80 GB External HDD. Unformatted. When I format it, it becomes
only 72 GB.
I was flummoxed by this at one stage as well.

--
Registered Linux User no 240308
Fedora Core 4, Pan, Thunderbird and Firefox
gordonATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk
to email me remove the obvious!

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Vanguard
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
"SirReal" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eCfwe.5577$gm6.4082@trnddc05...
>
> my original question was: why did you advertise
> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one
> with only 25 gig. here is his response. is he on
> the level?? i don't see formatting taking up 5 gig.
> perhaps i am wrong. please. i need your responses.
> be as concise as possible. thanks in advance.



Computers use binary (i.e., some power of 2). 2^30 is a gigabyte.
That's 1,073,741,824 bytes. Divide 30GB decimal by 1073741824 and you
get 27.9GB binary based. Out of that 27.9GB of space, some gets used up
with the master file table (MFT) and journaling. If you are using NTFS,
12.5% of the available space gets *reserved* (not consumed) for the MFT
(see
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...c_fil_xhpo.asp)
so you are looking at another 3.6GB being reserved for the MFT. You
also have paging space for virtual memory using up the hard drive space
(I don't know where any of the numbers you quoted came from so they may
or may not include the pagefile space, which is also *reserved* and NOT
permanently consumed).

 
Reply With Quote
 
Blinky the Shark
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
Gordon wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote:



>> my original question was: why did you advertise
>> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one
>> with only 25 gig.


> Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB
> formatted!


There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get
something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but
I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment.

--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
Killing all Usenet posts from Google Groups
Info: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
*ALSO contains links for access to the NON-BETA GG archive interface*
 
Reply With Quote
 
why?
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005

On 28 Jun 2005 18:10:12 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:

>Gordon wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote:

>
>
>>> my original question was: why did you advertise
>>> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one
>>> with only 25 gig.

>
>> Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB
>> formatted!

>
>There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get
>something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but
>I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment.


DMF 1.68 and 1.72 etc, this will let you do it WinImage from
www.winimage.com

Me
 
Reply With Quote
 
Plato
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
> There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get
> something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but
> I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment.


Format to DMF using Winimage:
http://www.winimage.com/winimage/winima61.zip







--
http://www.bootdisk.com/

 
Reply With Quote
 
Blinky the Shark
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
why? wrote:

> On 28 Jun 2005 18:10:12 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:


>>Gordon wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote:



>>>> my original question was: why did you advertise
>>>> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one
>>>> with only 25 gig.


>>> Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB
>>> formatted!


>>There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get
>>something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but
>>I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment.


> DMF 1.68 and 1.72 etc, this will let you do it WinImage from
> www.winimage.com


I could've sworn it could be done without any special software, by
tweaking some native DOS file. I think I vaguely remember some file
that contained formats available to the native format command, and
adding lines that made available some larger formats; seems like there
were four or six of them or so (1.8MB being the largest (or at least
the largest recommended, before the magnetic granularity of the floppy
medium itself made things too edgy). Maybe I'm misremembering.

--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
Killing all Usenet posts from Google Groups
Info: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
*ALSO contains links for access to the NON-BETA GG archive interface*
 
Reply With Quote
 
cnw
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
Blinky the Shark wrote:
> why? wrote:
>
>> On 28 Jun 2005 18:10:12 GMT, Blinky the Shark wrote:

>
>>>Gordon wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:16:58 +0000, SirReal wrote:

>
>
>>>>> my original question was: why did you advertise
>>>>> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one
>>>>> with only 25 gig.

>
>>>> Quite right. Take the humble floppy disk. 2MB unformatted, only 1.44 MB
>>>> formatted!

>
>>>There used to be a way (well, I'm sure there still is <g>) to get
>>>something like 1.8MB out of a floppy. Damned if I remember how, but
>>>I've done it -- just for the sake of the experiment.

>
>> DMF 1.68 and 1.72 etc, this will let you do it WinImage from
>> www.winimage.com

>
> I could've sworn it could be done without any special software, by
> tweaking some native DOS file. I think I vaguely remember some file
> that contained formats available to the native format command, and
> adding lines that made available some larger formats; seems like there
> were four or six of them or so (1.8MB being the largest (or at least
> the largest recommended, before the magnetic granularity of the floppy
> medium itself made things too edgy). Maybe I'm misremembering.


I vaguely remember this also, but it's been a long time since I've used
DOS. Perhaps you are remembering the superformat command in Linux, which
has similar functionality? This also has a configuration file (/etc/fdprm
or /etc/mediaprm) containing a list of the various formats available.

--
Current peeve: The inability of many Google Groups (G2) users to
attribute and quote text in followups.
 
Reply With Quote
 
Miss Perspicacia Tick
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
SirReal wrote:
> my original question was: why did you advertise
> a product with a 30 gig hard drive and sent one
> with only 25 gig. here is his response. is he on
> the level?? i don't see formatting taking up 5 gig.
> perhaps i am wrong. please. i need your responses.
> be as concise as possible. thanks in advance.


What planet have you been living on for the past 30 years?! I *CANNOT*
believe there is *STILL* someoneon this planet who doesn't know the
difference between decimal and binary! You could have Googled instead of
posting here and making yourself an even bigger ****wit than you already
obviously are.

Go back to living in your cave, or wherever it is you've spent the past
three decades or so. You're speaking as though this isn't your first
computer - didn't you notice the difference with other systems you've
owned?!




 
Reply With Quote
 
SirReal
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-28-2005
....here is what i found out, i had to bark at
2 'techies' to finally get the answer. the disk
'format' took only took up a little over 2 gigs.

here is what took up the rest:

On all new Dell systems beginning 07/16/2004, Dell installed a PC Restore
partition (DSR) that can be used in restoring the system to out-of-box
condition. It is the easiest way to reinstall the Operating System.

The Dell PC Restore partition (DSR) will take up approximately 3.0 GB of the
hard drive space. You can follow these steps to check the PC Restore
partition in disk management.

1. Click Start -> Control Panel
* Look to the left panel. If listed, click "Switch to Classic View"
2. Click Administrative Tools
3. Open Computer Management.
4. Click on Disk Management under Storage.

The discrepancy in reporting drive sizes (base-2 vs. base-10) may lead you
to believe that you have a hard disk drive of less than expected capacity if
you compare the figure reported by the operating system with the figure
reported by your documentation, although the actual hard drive size is
identical. Microsoft® Windows® simply counts the size differently, and will
report a different, slightly smaller, figure.

Here are some common hard drive sizes and their size as reported by the
operating system:

4.3 GB = 4.0 GB
6.4 GB = 6.10 GB
8.4 GB = 8.01 GB
9.1 GB = 8.68 GB
11.5 GB = 10.97 GB
13.6 GB =12.66 GB
16 GB =15.26 GB
20.0 GB = 18.6 GB
20.4 GB = 19.46 GB
24.4 GB = 22.99 GB
27.3 GB = 26.04 GB
30 GB = 28.61 GB
45 GB = 43 GB

For more information, you may also refer to the link/site below:

http://support.dell.com/support/topi...ent?DN=1024750

* If listed, click Home and Home Office
* Type in your Service Tag number [press Enter]

Also, I have checked your system specifications. Your hard disk drive has
the 30 GB size it just happens that the other amount of it is allocated to
the other components of your system.

You can see how much space the Dell PC Restore partition (DSR) and other
partitions occupy on the hard drive.

Please Note: You should be logged on with an account with administrator
rights to check and use Disk Management.

wish they would have told me about this is some
flyer or note in the setup guide or something. ah heck
i enjoyed jumpin' down there throat. poetic justice.
since they keep reducing the price of this machine.
paid $599(US). now i can get the same thing for
$540(US).

christ you know it ain't easy, you know how hard it
can be. the way things are going. there gonna
crucify me.



 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cheapest Cisco Switch with 1 Gig Ports and 10 Gig WAN-PHY Uplink? Will Cisco 7 11-25-2011 02:11 PM
Problems with 7206 vxr trying to VLAN a Gig port to an HP 4000M Gig port over fiber Great Deals Cisco 1 09-10-2007 11:32 AM
is there much performance difference between a 2.2 gig P4 and a 1.8 gig Celeron? grappletech Computer Information 2 03-09-2007 10:36 PM
Linksys GIG v's Cisco Gig Gary Cisco 3 10-15-2006 01:04 AM
Only have 2.1 gig showing on 6gig drive ProStart241 Computer Support 6 12-28-2004 10:47 AM



Advertisments