How Synopsys could save $$ without offshoring

Actually, this doesn't just apply to Synopsys, all of the big EDA
companies are sending jobs offshore now.

It goes without saying that Silicon Valley is expensive. It's an
expensive place to live and an expensive place to do business.
Because it's an expensive place to live, companies have to pay more to
their employees there so they can afford to live there.

The simplistic answer we're getting from the corporations these days
is "We've got to offshore jobs to save money so we can compete because
everyone is doing it.". Of course the premise of this argument is
debatable in itself: are they saving money on salaries and losing in
productivity or do they simply think they're going to make it up in
volume (of employees). But even if the overseas engineers are not as
experienced as their US counterparts, they soon will be - might take a
few years, but they will be. So we're not only going to see jobs and
money leave the US (salaries not paid here means no taxes for
Fed/State/local governments paid by employees - this is the main
reason most states are coming up short on revenue not because tax
rates are too low, but I digress.) but also knowledge and experience.
US engineers will not be able to keep up their skillsets on their own
and soon they'll lag behind.

Given that the major EDA companies are very much engineering companies
and are based in the US we might hope that they would have some
loyalty to the US. So how about other ideas for saving money? As was
noted above, Silicon Valley is expensive. Apparently Synopsys has a
rather large empty office building on their Oregon campus. Why not
move most of their engineering up to Oregon? The expense for office
space would seem to be much lower there and over a period of a few
years salaries could be allowed to match the lower salaries of that
area. I even hear you can get a very decent house up there for around
$200K. I'm sure that one of the arguments would be that employees may
not want to move, but given the increase in standard of living for the
dollar I suspect many would be very eager to relocate. And of course,
it beats the alternative of having your job sent over to India.
Believe me, being unemployed in the Valley quickly drains all your
savings.

Of course Synopsys isn't the only EDA company that could save money
this way and thus avoid at least some offshoring. Cadence, for
example, could do something similar. I believe Mentor Graphics
already has their headquarters out of the Valley (also in Oregon?) so
they may not be able to save much, but there are also some large
Mentor Graphics sites in the Valley.

Lots of engineers who haven't lost their jobs yet are getting nervous.
Those who have are getting mighty angry about offshoring. There are
more and more stories about offshoring in the mainstream news. The
political mood would seem to turning against the practice. If you big
corporations could avoid it, it might do you some good. We've already
lost manufacturing. Let's not lose engineering, if that happens the
US will cease to be a technology leader. And if that happens, how
long till the US falls to third world status?

Tom Joad

Tom Joad

Offshoring is the market saying that labor is over-priced. Supply/demand is
a natural law and while everyone can talk a good game at "protecting" jobs,
the truth is if you can't compete, your business and it's "protected" jobs
go away. Want to keep your job? Cut wages to compete.


"Tom Joad" <> wrote in message
news: om...
> Actually, this doesn't just apply to Synopsys, all of the big EDA
> companies are sending jobs offshore now.
>
> It goes without saying that Silicon Valley is expensive. It's an
> expensive place to live and an expensive place to do business.
> Because it's an expensive place to live, companies have to pay more to
> their employees there so they can afford to live there.
>
> The simplistic answer we're getting from the corporations these days
> is "We've got to offshore jobs to save money so we can compete because
> everyone is doing it.". Of course the premise of this argument is
> debatable in itself: are they saving money on salaries and losing in
> productivity or do they simply think they're going to make it up in
> volume (of employees). But even if the overseas engineers are not as
> experienced as their US counterparts, they soon will be - might take a
> few years, but they will be. So we're not only going to see jobs and
> money leave the US (salaries not paid here means no taxes for
> Fed/State/local governments paid by employees - this is the main
> reason most states are coming up short on revenue not because tax
> rates are too low, but I digress.) but also knowledge and experience.
> US engineers will not be able to keep up their skillsets on their own
> and soon they'll lag behind.
>
> Given that the major EDA companies are very much engineering companies
> and are based in the US we might hope that they would have some
> loyalty to the US. So how about other ideas for saving money? As was
> noted above, Silicon Valley is expensive. Apparently Synopsys has a
> rather large empty office building on their Oregon campus. Why not
> move most of their engineering up to Oregon? The expense for office
> space would seem to be much lower there and over a period of a few
> years salaries could be allowed to match the lower salaries of that
> area. I even hear you can get a very decent house up there for around
> $200K. I'm sure that one of the arguments would be that employees may
> not want to move, but given the increase in standard of living for the
> dollar I suspect many would be very eager to relocate. And of course,
> it beats the alternative of having your job sent over to India.
> Believe me, being unemployed in the Valley quickly drains all your
> savings.
>
> Of course Synopsys isn't the only EDA company that could save money
> this way and thus avoid at least some offshoring. Cadence, for
> example, could do something similar. I believe Mentor Graphics
> already has their headquarters out of the Valley (also in Oregon?) so
> they may not be able to save much, but there are also some large
> Mentor Graphics sites in the Valley.
>
> Lots of engineers who haven't lost their jobs yet are getting nervous.
> Those who have are getting mighty angry about offshoring. There are
> more and more stories about offshoring in the mainstream news. The
> political mood would seem to turning against the practice. If you big
> corporations could avoid it, it might do you some good. We've already
> lost manufacturing. Let's not lose engineering, if that happens the
> US will cease to be a technology leader. And if that happens, how
> long till the US falls to third world status?
>
> Tom Joad

tbx135

cut wages? then cut housing, food, insurance, automobile, taxes and
everything else my wages go to cover.

"tbx135" <> wrote in message
news:WwjFb.7911$ m...
> Offshoring is the market saying that labor is over-priced. Supply/demand
is
> a natural law and while everyone can talk a good game at "protecting"
jobs,
> the truth is if you can't compete, your business and it's "protected" jobs
> go away. Want to keep your job? Cut wages to compete.
>
>
> "Tom Joad" <> wrote in message
> news: om...
> > Actually, this doesn't just apply to Synopsys, all of the big EDA
> > companies are sending jobs offshore now.
> >
> > It goes without saying that Silicon Valley is expensive. It's an
> > expensive place to live and an expensive place to do business.
> > Because it's an expensive place to live, companies have to pay more to
> > their employees there so they can afford to live there.
> >
> > The simplistic answer we're getting from the corporations these days
> > is "We've got to offshore jobs to save money so we can compete because
> > everyone is doing it.". Of course the premise of this argument is
> > debatable in itself: are they saving money on salaries and losing in
> > productivity or do they simply think they're going to make it up in
> > volume (of employees). But even if the overseas engineers are not as
> > experienced as their US counterparts, they soon will be - might take a
> > few years, but they will be. So we're not only going to see jobs and
> > money leave the US (salaries not paid here means no taxes for
> > Fed/State/local governments paid by employees - this is the main
> > reason most states are coming up short on revenue not because tax
> > rates are too low, but I digress.) but also knowledge and experience.
> > US engineers will not be able to keep up their skillsets on their own
> > and soon they'll lag behind.
> >
> > Given that the major EDA companies are very much engineering companies
> > and are based in the US we might hope that they would have some
> > loyalty to the US. So how about other ideas for saving money? As was
> > noted above, Silicon Valley is expensive. Apparently Synopsys has a
> > rather large empty office building on their Oregon campus. Why not
> > move most of their engineering up to Oregon? The expense for office
> > space would seem to be much lower there and over a period of a few
> > years salaries could be allowed to match the lower salaries of that
> > area. I even hear you can get a very decent house up there for around
> > $200K. I'm sure that one of the arguments would be that employees may
> > not want to move, but given the increase in standard of living for the
> > dollar I suspect many would be very eager to relocate. And of course,
> > it beats the alternative of having your job sent over to India.
> > Believe me, being unemployed in the Valley quickly drains all your
> > savings.
> >
> > Of course Synopsys isn't the only EDA company that could save money
> > this way and thus avoid at least some offshoring. Cadence, for
> > example, could do something similar. I believe Mentor Graphics
> > already has their headquarters out of the Valley (also in Oregon?) so
> > they may not be able to save much, but there are also some large
> > Mentor Graphics sites in the Valley.
> >
> > Lots of engineers who haven't lost their jobs yet are getting nervous.
> > Those who have are getting mighty angry about offshoring. There are
> > more and more stories about offshoring in the mainstream news. The
> > political mood would seem to turning against the practice. If you big
> > corporations could avoid it, it might do you some good. We've already
> > lost manufacturing. Let's not lose engineering, if that happens the
> > US will cease to be a technology leader. And if that happens, how
> > long till the US falls to third world status?
> >
> > Tom Joad
>
>

Jerry

tbx135 wrote:
> Offshoring is the market saying that labor is over-priced. Supply/demand is
> a natural law and while everyone can talk a good game at "protecting" jobs,
> the truth is if you can't compete, your business and it's "protected" jobs
> go away. Want to keep your job? Cut wages to compete.

It is natural for people to want something for nothing. It is natural to
steal (it is viewed as sharing in a communal society). It is natural for
politicians to be corrupt (those that aren't, aren't in power anyway). It
is natural for monopolies to form and black economies to flourish. It is
natural for nations to invade only others that have oil. It is natural for
there to be traders and consumers of cocain.
The role of a government is to be non-corrupt and suppress a few of those
natural tendancies, as well as keeping the population employed by promoting
exports of products (not jobs). If your government is exporting jobs, it is
stupid and corrupt.

Russell Shaw

(Tom Joad) wrote in message news:<. com>...
> Given that the major EDA companies are very much engineering companies
> and are based in the US we might hope that they would have some
> loyalty to the US. So how about other ideas for saving money? As was
> noted above, Silicon Valley is expensive. Apparently Synopsys has a
> rather large empty office building on their Oregon campus. Why not
> move most of their engineering up to Oregon? The expense for office
> space would seem to be much lower there and over a period of a few
> years salaries could be allowed to match the lower salaries of that
> area. I even hear you can get a very decent house up there for around
> $200K. I'm sure that one of the arguments would be that employees may
> not want to move, but given the increase in standard of living for the
> dollar I suspect many would be very eager to relocate. And of course,
> it beats the alternative of having your job sent over to India.
> Believe me, being unemployed in the Valley quickly drains all your
> savings.

OK, consider the problem of the poor bastard who bought his house in
Silicon Valley at the height of the boom. Sure, you can buy a house
for $200K in Oregon ($200K buys a real nice place in Tucson, too), but
that doesn't help when you can't unload your shack in Si Valley
because you have a $500K note on a property worth much less, 'cause
nobody's buyin' 'cause the jobs are leaving.

Maybe Synopsis should get into the real-estate biz, and buy up, at a
profit for the employee, the homes of the employees who move?

Like that'll happen.

--a

Andy Peters

Here's the deal - I can get an overseas resource for 1/2 what I pay here
plus the management agravation. I can sell cheaper as a result. You can
protect your job anyway you want, I'll get around that. In the end I get a
cheaper resource, you lose your job. Ask manufacturing, textile, steel
people about all this. If you want to put your faith in some politician
fixing this, go right ahead.

Wages will go up overseas, after a while and talent will become short. But
thats not happening now. If you want to protect your job, work competitively
with the rest of the world.

tbx135

> that doesn't help when you can't unload your shack in Si Valley

We all take risks...No one was ****ing and moaning when those homes
appriciated in value. I also remember the $200+/hr software
contractors...Anyone save any money?

tbx135

"tbx135" <> wrote in message news:<WwjFb.7911$ om>...
> Offshoring is the market saying that labor is over-priced. Supply/demand is
> a natural law and while everyone can talk a good game at "protecting" jobs,
> the truth is if you can't compete, your business and it's "protected" jobs
> go away. Want to keep your job? Cut wages to compete.
>
>

I've heard of people offering to work for less money to prevent their
jobs from being offshored, but this is never considered a serious
option by management. I suppose they figure that when the economy
improves you'll leave or ask for a raise or something.

Certainly I'd be willing to work for less than I used to. Even up to
30% less, I suppose. However, there are limits. I've still got to
pay rent, insurance, electricity bills, etc. Hey, maybe I should tell
my landlord that he needs to compete and lower his rents by 50%?
Maybe I should mention this to the electric company & the grocery
store as well. Yeah, I'm sure that's going to work and they'll be so
glad I suggested it to them. How about that health insurance? Maybe
I should just go without so I can be more competitive on the global
market. And then there's cars; who needs 'em, since we're aiming for
3rd world here, I should get a donkey.

I too was once a member of the Church of the Invisible Hand. I no
longer count myself a member of that congregation since doubts caused
me to disbelieve.

Tom Joad

Tom Joad

(Andy Peters) wrote in message news:<. com>...
> (Tom Joad) wrote in message news:<. com>...
> > Given that the major EDA companies are very much engineering companies
> > and are based in the US we might hope that they would have some
> > loyalty to the US. So how about other ideas for saving money? As was
> > noted above, Silicon Valley is expensive. Apparently Synopsys has a
> > rather large empty office building on their Oregon campus. Why not
> > move most of their engineering up to Oregon? The expense for office
> > space would seem to be much lower there and over a period of a few
> > years salaries could be allowed to match the lower salaries of that
> > area. I even hear you can get a very decent house up there for around
> > $200K. I'm sure that one of the arguments would be that employees may
> > not want to move, but given the increase in standard of living for the
> > dollar I suspect many would be very eager to relocate. And of course,
> > it beats the alternative of having your job sent over to India.
> > Believe me, being unemployed in the Valley quickly drains all your
> > savings.
>
> OK, consider the problem of the poor bastard who bought his house in
> Silicon Valley at the height of the boom. Sure, you can buy a house
> for $200K in Oregon ($200K buys a real nice place in Tucson, too), but
> that doesn't help when you can't unload your shack in Si Valley
> because you have a $500K note on a property worth much less, 'cause
> nobody's buyin' 'cause the jobs are leaving.
>

It's a problem, that's for sure, but I wonder how many people are in
that situation. Probably not that many. Of course, considering the
alternative, it could still be a lot better to walk away from a
mortage like that if you've got an opportunity at steady work
elsewhere.

> Maybe Synopsis should get into the real-estate biz, and buy up, at a
> profit for the employee, the homes of the employees who move?
>

Some companies will assist in selling the property, but these days
it's probably not likely.

Tom Joad

Tom Joad

"tbx135" <> wrote in message news:<NiKFb.8180$ om>...
> Here's the deal - I can get an overseas resource for 1/2 what I pay here
> plus the management agravation. I can sell cheaper as a result.

But why do we need you? Why not just send your management position
over? Why should you make any more than a Wal*Mart Associate if the
rest of us are supposed to be making that much? Come on now, get with
the program and compete!

> You can
> protect your job anyway you want, I'll get around that. In the end I get a
> cheaper resource, you lose your job. Ask manufacturing, textile, steel
> people about all this.

Yeah, they're all Wal*Mart Associates now. So basically, you're
proposing that we not make or design anything in this country. We'll
just sell lattes and cheap Wal*Mart junk to each other. It's bad
enough we we don't manufacture anything here anymore, but it's going
to be even worse when we don't design anything here.

> If you want to put your faith in some politician
> fixing this, go right ahead.

I'm not sure if any politician can help us. Maybe there could be
incentives to have a certain percentage of your workforce employed
here.

>
> Wages will go up overseas, after a while and talent will become short. But
> thats not happening now.

and the wages between the third world and the US won't equalize for
another 20, 30 years or so. What are we supposed to do in the
meantime? During this time living standards will equalize and that
means that living standards in America will fall by quite a bit before
we're 'competitive' with the third world. One could hope that that
would rile up a lot of folks here and get them nice and mad so we can
rethink this global capitalism madness, but it will probably happen
slow enough that most folks won't notice till it's too late.

>If you want to protect your job, work competitively
> with the rest of the world.

I'm work'n on get'n me a big cardboard box so's I can move under a
freeway overpass and thus cut expenses so I can compete in the global
marketplace, yes sir. Way I sees it, I won't need to pay rent anymore
and of course there won't be any electric bill to pay either. And for
food, well I can go dumpster diving at night after working my $7/hour
engineering job for 12 hours. And if I choose an overpass that's
close to work I won't need a car either. Hey, you think they'd just
let me move the family into my cube? The kids could go out
panhandling during the day so they won't be bother'n nobody.

Yes siree, you got me to think'n about how I'm gonna compete with the
rest of the world. I hope you're think'n about it too.

Tom Joad

Tom Joad