«

(Daniel Otis-Vigil) writes:

> I vaguely recall you were harrassing me via email to point where I had
> to block your emails.

What colour is the sky in your world? The reason you avoid Usenet is
obviously to protect yourself from the unpleasant reality that you
are con-artist, stealing money from the ill-informed by selling them
software that is as much use as a gauze condom.

--
Registered Linux User 297164
GPG Key ID 1B1B6A1D5A2407C3
Noho ora mai, ka kite ano
http://maxqnz.com/References.html

On 11 Dec 2003 21:22:29 -0800, (Daniel Otis-Vigil)
wrote:

>> It doesn't take a master brain to go out there and acquire a
>> miriad of trojans, and compare the different softwares available.
>> Now, I know you are going to vigorously deny this, but The Cleaner
>> is a pile of shite, in my opinion, and I would *never* recommend
>> it to anybody - in fact I would urge people to consider a better
>> alternative.
>
>It's your right to do so even though I think you are dead wrong.
>Thank you both for reminding me why I avoid usenet.
>
>Daniel
Maybe you should make MORE contact through usenets and see what people
are saying. Yes, you will get worthless criticism but you will also
get many valid comments - in my experience usingthese groups.

On 11 Dec 2003 21:19:16 -0800, Daniel Otis-Vigil wrote:

>> Hmm, interesting. I had very specific, detailed concerns about your
>> product, relating to false positives and non-detection of real
>> trojans, and your response was to blacklist my IP, and email me
>> instructing me to desist from further attempts at communicating those
>> concerns. You also refused to take my address off your database, so
>> I'm still getting your pointless update announcements nearly 2 years
>> after removing your worthless POS software from my PC.
>>
>> For those who are interested, here is a review of various anti-trojan
>> sotware. It doesn't rate The Cleaner very highly at all, although much
>> too highly still, in my opinion.
>> http://www.anti-trojan-software-reviews.com/
>
>I vaguely recall you were harrassing me via email to point where I had
>to block your emails. That review only rated The Cleaner near the top
>of the list, wow, that's great!

"That review only rated The Cleaner near the top
of the list, wow, that's great!"

That isn't what the article says.

"Effectiveness

Scanning speed was on the slow side. It took only 33 minutes to scan our
Windows directory which was the longest of any product we tested. On the other
hand it scanned more files than any other product.

The two monitor programs, TCActive and TCMonitor churned away unobtrusively in
the background and did not have a detectable effect on machine performance.

ln our signature file currency test in the 2002 tests The Cleaner missed 5 of
the trojans on the first test, a result identical with The Cleaner. On the
second test 3 months later it still missed the same five trojans.

There is some ambiguity in this result. Does it mean that the database was not
updated in this period or does it suggest that it was already up-to-date at the
one month. The fact that The Cleaner did a reasonable detection job on the one
month test favors the latter interpretation.

However even this interpretation needs to be put in perspective. TDS-3 picked up
all


*****The 2003 tests showed even poorer results. In fact The cleaner came dead
last of all the products tested. If this poor performance continues The Cleaner
will be removed from our list of recommended programs.*****


Other Reviews: The Cleaner has had mixed reviews. In one ( 2) it came top of the
pack, though the test was not very authoritative. In three others (3, 4, 5) it
was middle ranked. In yet another (6), which was qualitatively oriented, it was
rated last.

In perhaps the most thorough review (1),The Cleaner fared poorly, the reviewer
noting " ... its signature scanning was especially lackluster.""

It completely missed not one, but several trojans on my test machine. One of
those was Nimda - quite some time after everyone else was picking it up. F-Prot
for DOS picked it up - and it's free.

Thank you very much, Daniel, for showing your weaselness in front of the world.
I wouldn't recommend your product before. I _certainly_ won't now.

>We haven't had any false positives in some time and a very high
>detection rate. In fact, much better than most. I am sorry you are
>so bitter but it is really misplaced.

No, it isn't.

>
>Daniel

--
When life gives you lemons, throw them back and tell life to make its own
damned lemonade. --Unknown

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:29:36 +1300, Max Quordlepleen wrote:

> (Daniel Otis-Vigil) writes:
>
>> I vaguely recall you were harrassing me via email to point where I had
>> to block your emails.
>
>What colour is the sky in your world? The reason you avoid Usenet is
>obviously to protect yourself from the unpleasant reality that you
>are con-artist, stealing money from the ill-informed by selling them
>software that is as much use as a gauze condom.

He's trying to use weasel words to suck in more newbies, apparently. But, as
with all weasels, his own words trip him up - see my reply.

"He's a bigger luser than his product, and that's saying something."

--
When life gives you lemons, throw them back and tell life to make its own
damned lemonade. --Unknown

Mara <> writes:

> He's trying to use weasel words to suck in more newbies, apparently. But, as
> with all weasels, his own words trip him up - see my reply.

Ys, nice job. I guess I was bemused at his apparently boundless
capacity for self-delusion, after reading his claim that the review I
linked to rate his snake oil "near the top". Interestingly enough, the
AT field is starting to get nasty. The authors of TDS and BOClean are
engaged in a widespread smear campaign against the personal ethics of
Magnus Mischel, the author of TrojanHunter. I have no experience with
BOClean, but Wayne Diamond from DCS has all the ethics of a
graverobber. He has publicly admitted reverse engineering
TrojanHunter, in direct violation of its EULA.Software libre has its
unbalanced egomaniacal nut-jobs, like Richard "I invented Linux"
Stallman, but in general, the OSS movement has much less of the malice
generated by the urge to compete for sales.

--
Registered Linux User 297164
GPG Key ID 1B1B6A1D5A2407C3
Noho ora mai, ka kite ano
http://maxqnz.com/References.html

W@L posted ...

> Anyone found this worthwhile or problematic???
> TIA
>
> Wally.

To echo and support what others have said ..

The Cleaner, by Moosoft, has problems. I get the impression [1] that it's a
beta, rather than a professional product and, as such, wouldn't recommend it
[2] to anyone unless they're a real whizz with computers, and then they
wouldn't need it anyway 'cos they would already be using way better products
[3] available.

[1] Personal opinion after trying it on different systems in different
guises and different releases over a number of years. I don't even bother
trying it now ...

[2] I have recommended it in the past for very specific circumstances ..
though can't now remember what for, but it _was_ very good ..

[3] See links posted by others ...



--
Paul

here_and_there <> wrote in message
> Maybe you should make MORE contact through usenets and see what people
> are saying. Yes, you will get worthless criticism but you will also
> get many valid comments - in my experience usingthese groups.

That is true. I stepped into what was obviously a tag-team flame
here. I won't let a couple of misguided souls scare me off.

Daniel

"Daniel Otis-Vigil" <> wrote in message
news: om...
> here_and_there <> wrote in message
> > Maybe you should make MORE contact through usenets and see what people
> > are saying. Yes, you will get worthless criticism but you will also
> > get many valid comments - in my experience usingthese groups.
>
> That is true. I stepped into what was obviously a tag-team flame
> here. I won't let a couple of misguided souls scare me off.
>
> Daniel

Why do you think it is misguided- it certainly seems valid criticism. Your
ignoring them, or disagreeing does not make you right. The fact that you
ignored them, and still dismiss them does not give any reason to feel people
should yet have any confidence in your company- it seems to re-inforce that
they may well be right. If you had offered to look at and sort out the
criticisms they have given may have helped you, but there is no sign of
'customer care'.
You give the clear impression of being one to avoid.

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:14:32 -0000, "AlanS" <alan@*remove*.mrals.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:
>Why do you think it is misguided- it certainly seems valid criticism. Your
>ignoring them, or disagreeing does not make you right. The fact that you
>ignored them, and still dismiss them does not give any reason to feel people
>should yet have any confidence in your company- it seems to re-inforce that
>they may well be right. If you had offered to look at and sort out the
>criticisms they have given may have helped you, but there is no sign of
>'customer care'.
>You give the clear impression of being one to avoid.

I haven't seen any criticisms to respond to, I have only seen flaming.

Daniel

On 12 Dec 2003 08:11:47 -0800, in
< >
Daniel Otis-Vigil scrawled:

>here_and_there <> wrote in message
>> Maybe you should make MORE contact through usenets and see what people
>> are saying. Yes, you will get worthless criticism but you will also
>> get many valid comments - in my experience usingthese groups.
>
>That is true. I stepped into what was obviously a tag-team flame
>here. I won't let a couple of misguided souls scare me off.

A tag-team flame? How do you come up with that?

--
Basic computer maintenance
http://uk.geocities.com/personel44/maintenance.html