«

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, Carolyn Marenger wrote:

> On a technicality... Using frames, and other means, I can instruct
> your browser to load someone else's page into a section of one of my
> pages. My site however, has not displayed any information from the
> third party's site. Your browser, providing it can and does follow
> frameset instructions, did the retrieving and displaying. I only
> provided a link to the third party's page and instructions on where
> to display the content.

In the cases that I've heard of, the offender decided to settle out of
court, rather than try to persuade the judge(s) of the applicabiity of
these web technicalities.

It's not sufficient that we manage to convince each other - no matter
how well we agree amongst ourselves - for, as a certain commentator
put it[1], "Never will the lawyers relent, till all the client's
money's been spent".

cheers

[1]Oh - curiously, google doesn't seem to know where that comes from.
But I do. Well, perhaps the wording isn't quite spot on...? Anyone
else?

> On a technicality... Using frames, and other means, I can instruct your
> browser to load someone else's page into a section of one of my pages. My
> site however, has not displayed any information from the third party's
> site. Your browser, providing it can and does follow frameset
> instructions, did the retrieving and displaying. I only provided a link to
> the third party's page and instructions on where to display the content.

On a similar technicality, when I copy my friend's MP3, the computer is
merely following my instructions also. I am not doing the copying, I am
merely telling the operating system where the data is and giving it
standard file instructions; the operating system does the retrieving,
processing, and storing.

Frames are another instance in which the idea of copyright is being
stretched. To address the fundamental question of right or wrong one
must look beyong technicalities.

=Should= it be considered wrong (and thus made illegal) to appropriate
somebody else's content in such a way as to represent it as yours via
frames (or other means), even if no copying is involved? This is
similar to the question of whether =actually= copying intellectual
property should be considered wrong (and thus illegal) even though
(unlike chattel) the original remains with the owner.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

With neither quill nor qualm, Carolyn Marenger quothed:

> PeterMcC wrote:
>
> > Jim Higson wrote in
> > <>
> >
> >> jmev7 wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've been wondering how sites are able to contain other sites within
> >>> them, linking them as if they were their own [snip] is it legal?
> >>
> >> Under which country's laws?
> >>
> >> My take is that a frameset does not copy the resource, and only tells
> >> the browser where the resource is avaliable, which probably isn't
> >> copyrightable information.
> >
> > You might want to double check that interpretation.
> >
> > If a site displays copyright information from another site without first
> > gaining the copyright holder's permission, the means used to do so are not
> > of significance in determining whether a breach of copyright has occurred.
>
> On a technicality... Using frames, and other means, I can instruct your
> browser to load someone else's page into a section of one of my pages. My
> site however, has not displayed any information from the third party's
> site. Your browser, providing it can and does follow frameset
> instructions, did the retrieving and displaying. I only provided a link to
> the third party's page and instructions on where to display the content.

You provided the _means_ to display it which is under your auspices and,
therefore, contendable. This is different than a mere link; your
framework (yuk yuk) makes the "copy" available in another and additional
form, so in (US) superior court, Perry Mason would make mince meat out
of you.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Neredbojias
<> writing in
news::

>> On a technicality... Using frames, and other means, I can instruct
>> your browser to load someone else's page into a section of one of my
>> pages. My site however, has not displayed any information from the
>> third party's site. Your browser, providing it can and does follow
>> frameset instructions, did the retrieving and displaying. I only
>> provided a link to the third party's page and instructions on where to
>> display the content.
>

Yes, and if the address in the URL bar is http://www.example.com but the
content is from http://www.microsoft.com and there is nothing stating that
it _is_ http://www.microsoft.com, then I could be accused of trying to pass
Micorsoft's content as my own.

--
Adrienne Boswell
Please respond to the group so others can share

With neither quill nor qualm, Adrienne Boswell quothed:

> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Neredbojias
> <> writing in
> news::
>
> >> On a technicality... Using frames, and other means, I can instruct
> >> your browser to load someone else's page into a section of one of my
> >> pages. My site however, has not displayed any information from the
> >> third party's site. Your browser, providing it can and does follow
> >> frameset instructions, did the retrieving and displaying. I only
> >> provided a link to the third party's page and instructions on where to
> >> display the content.
> >
>
> Yes, and if the address in the URL bar is http://www.example.com but the
> content is from http://www.microsoft.com and there is nothing stating that
> it _is_ http://www.microsoft.com, then I could be accused of trying to pass
> Micorsoft's content as my own.

Exactly. US copyright-ownership law may (arguably) be too extensive,
but I have no problem with that.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

Carolyn Marenger wrote:

> I only provided a link to the third party's page and instructions on
> where to display the content.

True, but there exists a legal concept of "passing off" -- i.e. you could
be considered to be passing off somebody's pages as your own work.

Of course, if you make it clear by your link text that the page is not
your own work, preferably giving credit to its author, then you're not
passing off.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact